Christians that are into Judaism

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Judaism and Christianity are a unified transitional continuity.

Jesus states this in Matthew 5:17,

“Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets; I am not come to destroy but fulfil.”
 
I think the proper term here is racist fanatics from The Modern Age. I’ll fix this so we’re all clear on this. The real murders were committed by Nazis, not Crusaders.

The Crusaders, as you called them, only fought those who fought them. They were pilgrims, but more than that, armed pilgrims. If you’ve studied the history, you’ll find that at every battle it was the Muslims on the offensive, until a siege was required, which forced the opponent to the defensive. The so-called “atrocities” of those days weren’t aimed through antisemitism, but for other reasons altogether. The “massacres” of Jews were done out of necessity for money, since there were specific groups of Crusaders who could barely pay for a single loaf of bread. It was lamentable, but the Jews of the time had it far worst in Islamic Lands. Anyone ever hear of the events during the 11th century where all Christians AND Jews were forced to wear heavy wooden necklaces in the shapes of their own faith’s symbols?

I’m surprised to see a so-called “fellow” Catholic make a nerving comment as that to discredit our ancestors of the past. It is a common mistake for people to believe that the Crusades disrupted Christian relations with the Jews forever. Wrong. These relations had long been disrupted since the time of Jesus.

If anything, it was in Christian lands that Jews lived in much greater safety. Look up the Kingdom of Poland, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and the first Polish Republic. The Jews used to call Poland “The Jewish Paradise”.

Now to contribute to this thread, I would have to add that my own interests in the Judeo faith is purely for research; specifically in the dark ages, middles ages and renaissance period. I wouldn’t mind understanding the Jews, but, as a writer, I need to first focus on the information I’m looking for.

-MontChevalier
MontChevalier, your post gave a whole new meaning to my thoughts on the crusades. I know that the crusaders weren’t antisemitic but I don’t agree with them pillaging even innocent Jews to steal their money just so that they could aid themselves. Its just so wrong stelaing from others so that you could aid yourself. I read an article called ‘The crusades and the spin doctors’ which really helped me with my udnerstanding of the crusades.

That said, we have it much worse today. Jews persecute Palestinians because they tihnk that they have the right from God, Muslim leaders do the same, America goes on a pointless war just to help itself and all that. Its impossible to say that any war outside the crusades has nay noble cause, just as it is impossible to say that all the crusaders had noble things in mind. Without doubt, there were manyhorrible people in the crusades, even though the Pope didn’t intend things to be horrible or to seize power.
 
Judaism and Christianity are a unified transitional continuity.

Jesus states this in Matthew 5:17,

“Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets; I am not come to destroy but fulfil.”
Judaism was only a figrue of the new, real religion that He found, the Catholic religion.

When the Angel Gabriel said to the Blessed Virgin Mary, His Mother: [31] Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name Jesus. [32] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the most High; and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father; and he shall reign in the house of Jacob for ever. [33] And of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Notice that it is his kingdom he is reffering to and not Abrham’s or Jacob’s kingdom. He also said that God will give unto Him the throne of David His father. Judaism isn’t in command anymore, it is the Catholic religion that is.
 
I’m not sure anyone here is suggesting the Jews are ‘Christ Killers’.
So why did the Pope make the statement because he had nothing better to talk about? If your referring to this post I get that. I wasn’t, I thought since the topic was what it was, it would be of interest. If it means nothing to you ignore it. Your wound a bit tight arn’t you? Relax. Geez
 
Judaism was only a figrue of the new, real religion that He found, the Catholic religion.

When the Angel Gabriel said to the Blessed Virgin Mary, His Mother: [31] Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name Jesus. [32] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the most High; and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father; and he shall reign in the house of Jacob for ever. [33] And of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Notice that it is his kingdom he is reffering to and not Abrham’s or Jacob’s kingdom. He also said that God will give unto Him the throne of David His father. Judaism isn’t in command anymore, it is the Catholic religion that is.
His kingdom reign is over the “house of Jacob”.
 
MontChevalier, your post gave a whole new meaning to my thoughts on the crusades. I know that the crusaders weren’t antisemitic but I don’t agree with them pillaging even innocent Jews to steal their money just so that they could aid themselves. Its just so wrong stealing from others so that you could aid yourself. I read an article called ‘The crusades and the spin doctors’ which really helped me with my understanding of the crusades.

That said, we have it much worse today. Jews persecute Palestinians because they think that they have the right from God, Muslim leaders do the same, America goes on a pointless war just to help itself and all that. Its impossible to say that any war outside the crusades has nay noble cause, just as it is impossible to say that all the crusaders had noble things in mind. Without doubt, there were many horrible people in the crusades, even though the Pope didn’t intend things to be horrible or to seize power.
It’s tragic, but many of the merchant class in Europe, at the time, were Jews. It was wrong that it happened, the Pope disapproved of the attacks on Jews. The major reasons they happened was because the People’s Crusade was built amidst undisciplined folk. And they got their just reward in the end for what they did, but it doesn’t mean the entire venture has to be abandoned altogether.

No, I disagree, Jews do not persecute Palestinians, Jews are only doing their jobs of security. The Palestinians only call it persecution. If the Muslims in Israel are allowed to do whatever they want, there’ll be a suicide bombing every day.

It’s without doubt there were many GOOD crusaders and less bad. Whatever you’ve read has only been built on anti-Catholicism; as many texts have been written. How many Jews existed in Islamic lands by the end 19th century? 100,000? 50,000? You’ll find that there were so few, it’s frightening. Most Jews preferred living in Christian-controlled lands because they offered better opportunities and were much more free from persecution; in comparison to Islam. Need I go back to Poland?

-MontChevalier
 
I would like to express my heartfelt appreciation that you do not feel that it is necessary to physically exterminate me or to destroy my place of worship, despite my crime of being Jewish, but will limit yourself to verbal persuasion to “charitably” have me break the eternal covenant , thereby cutting me off for eternity from both God and the Jewish people. 🤷
Chosenpeople, if something is true (in this case the Catholic relgion being the true religion and not Judaism) then nobody and I mean nobody can change the truth so as to suite his own caprices, whether they be Jewish, Muslim, Protestant or Buddhist.

When you say Jewish, I assume that your referring to your religion and not your race. What is race anyway? We’re all mutts in the end anyway:).

Let me tell you something, why don’t you research a bit on Catholic theology which tells us why the Catholic relgion is the true religion and why the Jewish one isn’t the true one anymore?

Regarding Jews being ‘Christkillers’… when Christ was handed over to the crowds, everyone who wanted him dead cried: ‘His blood be upon us and our children.’ (Matt 27:25)
Now not all the Jews wanted him dead. There were the Blessed Mother herself, the Apostles (what, were they American? Oh no, yes they are! This movie has the most miscast actors ever!), His disciples, His other followers (not to mention the fact that alot of the first Christians were Jewish); then there were the Jews who wanted him dead. Whatever they did, these people were Jewish and used their power to do crimes: the Pharisees, the Saducees, the other Jewish people who wanted Him death because they didn’t agree with His views and teachings, etc…

Christ was killed because the majority of the Jews didn’t agree with His views (which were right all along); Christ decided to die ebcause He wanted to repair the sins of mankind. We sent Christ to His death while the Pharisees (who were representatives and leaders of the Jewish religion) literally sent Him to His death. Their crime was inexcusable, horrible and also a sacrilege. The majority of the Jewish race didn’t ant to kill an innocent man and those who did, they were responsible for their own sins. Yet those who still hold onto Judaism still reject Christs teachings even though they don’t want to kill Him and so that is a sin in itself. We don’t hold the Jewish race for Christs death, we hold the Jewish religion which has refused to acknowledge Christ as the saviour of mankind. So there, now you know.
 
Because the Jews were, are, and always will be God’s chosen people?

They are the root; we are the branch – grafted on – adopted into the familiy – by the grace, the sheer unmerited favor, of God
 
Because the Jews were, are, and always will be God’s chosen people?

They are the root; we are the branch – grafted on – adopted into the familiy – by the grace, the sheer unmerited favor, of God
They may be ‘chosen’, but are they saved if they reject Christ? If Christ is the way, the truth and the light, and they reject it, can they really be the root?

IMO, the jews are part of the same tree trunk. They started out as the sapling and grew, but then the saplinty turned into Christianity as the fulfillment of the tree. Their part of the tree has stopped growing while Christianity has blossomed and born fruit.
 
Chosenpeople, if something is true (in this case the Catholic relgion being the true religion and not Judaism) then nobody and I mean nobody can change the truth so as to suite his own caprices…Regarding Jews being ‘Christkillers’… when Christ was handed over to the crowds, everyone who wanted him dead cried: ‘His blood be upon us and our children.’ (Matt 27:25)
Christ was killed because the majority of the Jews didn’t agree with His views (which were right all along); Christ decided to die ebcause He wanted to repair the sins of mankind. We sent Christ to His death while the Pharisees (who were representatives and leaders of the Jewish religion) literally sent Him to His death. Their crime was inexcusable, horrible and also a sacrilege. .
The Roman Pagans who became the Roman Catholics found themselves in the unenviable position of having previously murdered their god as an anti-Roman zealot. Their solution was to place the blame for their actions on a collective entity called “The Jews”.

The Roman prefect Pilate is depicted in the Christian scriptures as arguing against a frenzied crowd of Jews to not execute Jesus, finally “washing his hands” of the matter. However, we know that Pilate was removed from office in 36 c.e. (some sources early 37 c.e) because of extreme and excessive cruelty to the local Jewish population. This extreme and excessive cruelty included his penchant for the summary execution without trial of thousands of Jews deemed to be anti-Roman zealots.

Jewish involvement according to the Christian scriptures is also found in a trial of Jesus by the Sanhedrin. According to the Christian scriptures ,the Sanhedrin convicts Jesus of blasphemy and sentences him to death. However, they are forced to hand him over for execution as they do not have the power to execute people. There are however a “few” problems with this story of the trial. To begin with, while the Jewish trial of Jesus appears in Mark and Matthew, according to John 18:13-14, there is no trial of Jesus before the Sanhedrin, only a hearing before the High Priest. The Gospel story of the trial is also interesting because of the absolute lack of knowledge by the writers of Jewish law. Every single procedural rule is wrong. Even more incredible, the Gospel authors have Jesus being convicted of the wrong crime, that of blasphemy. Finally, the claim that the Sanhedrin could not execute criminals is contradicted by the Christian scriptures themselves as well as Josephus.

The betrayal of a demigod was a common theme in the mystery-cult religions at the time of Jesus. However, though the Gospels can’t agree on the names of the disciples, the name of the “betrayer” is significant. Judas from Judea from Jew. “Judas the betrayer” (mentioned over 30 times in the Christian scriptures) to “Jews” the “god killers”. The newly discovered Gospel of Judas paints Judas as acting according to Jesus’ plan and as trusted and devoted ally of Jesus in direct contradiction of the canonized Gospels. The story of Judas in the Christian scriptures is rife with contradictions. These include whether there was the involvement of the Devil, the source suggesting the bribe, the naming of Judas as the betrayer at the last supper, the way Judas died, whether Judas was repentant for betraying Jesus, the place where Judas died, who bought “Blood Acre”, and the meaning of the name (not to mention the confusion in Matthew 27:7-10 in citing Jeremiah 32:6-9).

Now the Sadducees are the group of Jews who hold the High Priesthood at the time of Jesus and are the ones who are in tight with the Romans and are the ones who are sticklers to the text without deviation. So why do the Christian scriptures seemingly mix up Pharisees with Sadducees, placing the emphasis and the blame on the Pharisees? The problem was that by the time the Gospels were being written, the Sadducees were gone. To blame the Jews you had to blame the Pharisees.

In condemning “the Jews” for the death of Jesus, the Gospels create the concept of “the Jews” as a unified negative force. On the one hand, it is Jesus’ popularity among the Jews that leads to his death. On the other hand it is “the Jews” as an entity who supposedly seek and are responsible for his death.

The calumnies against the Jews in the Gospels include their declaring to have the blood of Jesus on their heads, they are referred to as snakes, as liars, as the spawn of the Devil.

The Jew is painted as the enemy of God, a person who has rejected God. The Christian scriptures teach “Take my enemies, who would not have me rule over them, bring them here, and kill them before me” (Luke 19:27). Some 1,250 years after God revealed Himself at Sinai before the entire Jewish nation and made an eternal covenant between God and the Jews, a group of Roman Pagans declared themselves the “new Jews” with a “new covenant” and declared that the Jews are a malignant and immoral force.

It is this accusation that the Jews are “Christ killers” that will lead a Catholic Saint to write some 1500 years before Mein Kampf that the Jews are sub human fit only for slaughter. It is this accusation that leads to the Catholic Church blood purity laws in post Inquisition Spain and in the Jesuit order. It is this accusation which will lead the Catholic Church to place the Jews in ghettos, to make them wear clothing marking them as Jews, to prevent them from having basic civil and legal rights. It is this accusation that will culminate in 2000 years of Christian anti-Semitism in the Shoah and the murder of one in every three Jews in the world.

Since the Shoah, especially since Vatican II, the Church has taken real steps to correct attitudes toward the Jewish people. Perhaps a time will come when the Gospels will be edited free of anti-Semitism, when Jews will no longer have to bear either the false accusations or the sins of others.
 
chosenpeople, I’m simply, honestly astounded by the your words. I’m astounded that you would accuse us of doing such horrible things to the Jews, as if we had the desire to eat you all alive. Before I continue, I want to say that I don’t care if anybody calls me antisemitic. They would all be stupid lies and hatred.

That said, the blood purity doctrine was never thought in the Catholic Church (even though the old testament did teach a sor tof blood purity, with God giving lands which belonged to other nations to the Jews and allowing them to wage war against these otherwise innocent people. Those were dark times, especially without the Blessed Virgin Mary 😊). There defintiely were alot of antisemitic mob riots, maybe with Priests and Bishops joining in them. Yet these riots were NEVER supported by the Church. the Church can’t be held accountable for the crimes of a few Priests and a few Bishops, nor can it be held for the crimes of a whole nation such as Spain or France which kicked Jews out.

This is actually why the Spanish Inquisition was establsihed; to protect the Jews from the crazy mobs. If the Jews were suspect, then they would be investigated by the Inquisition. Torture was rarely used. In fact, the supposed horrors of the Inquisition are so grossly exagerrated that they have little basis in reality. Just look at this article on wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_revision_of_the_Inquisition#Antisemitism_and_the_.22conversos.22

It even says that the Pope protested against the treatment of the ‘conversos’.

I’ll admit though that the Popes were very harsh on the Jews, especially Pope Innocent III. The again, this was the same Pope was ‘excommunicated’ England. Even I was dumbfounded by the words of the Popes in regards the Jews. The again, later Popes completely went the opposite direction of Pope Innocent. Copied from wikipedia:

Pope Gregory X: Letter on Jews, (1271-76) - Against the Blood Libel "And most falsely do these Christians claim that the Jews have secretly and furtively carried away these children and killed them, and that the Jews offer sacrifice from the heart and blood of these children, since their law in this matter precisely and expressly forbids Jews to sacrifice, eat, or drink the blood, or to eat the flesh of animals having claws. This has been demonstrated many times at our court by Jews converted to the Christian faith: nevertheless very many Jews are often seized and detained unjustly because of this. We decree, therefore, that Christians need not be obeyed against Jews in a case or situation of this type, and we order that Jews seized under such a silly pretext be freed from imprisonment, and that they shall not be arrested henceforth on such a miserable pretext, unless-which we do not believe-they be caught in the commission of the crime. We decree that no Christian shall stir up anything new against them, but that they should be maintained in that status and position in which they were in the time of our predecessors, from antiquity till now.

lets face it: some Popes were really harsh and antisemitic, yet not all of them. In fact,t he majority of the Popes were very holy people, and what later Popes did to make up for one or two Popes cruelty, while not enough to repair the damage, showed at least good will. They may have established some discipline but it wasn’t the overtly harsh discipline of the older Popes, it wasn’t antisemitic or cruel and it was only to preserve the Catholic relgiion. I’m sorry to all the Jews who fell victim to all those mobs and all that.
 
chosenpeople, I’m simply, honestly astounded by the your words. I’m astounded that you would accuse us of doing such horrible things to the Jews.
From “Jews and Judaism” Original Catholic Encyclopedia

"The obligation of wearing a distinguishing badge was of course obnoxious to the Jews. At the same time, Church authorities deemed its injunction necessary to prevent effectively moral offenses between Jews and Christian women. The decrees forbidding the Jews from appearing in public at Easter-tide may be justified on the ground that some of them mocked at the Christian processions at that time; those against baptized Jews retaining distinctly Jewish customs find their ready explanation in the necessity for the Church to maintain the purity of the Faith in its members, while those forbidding the Jews from molesting converts to Christianity are no less naturally explained by the desire of doing away with a manifest obstacle to future conversions.

It was for the laudable reason of protecting social morality and securing the maintenance of the Christian Faith, that canonical decrees were framed and repeatedly enforced against free and constant intercourse between Christians and Jews, against, for instance, bathing, living, etc., with Jews. To some extent, likewise, these were the reasons for the institution of the Ghetto or confinement of the Jews to a special quarter, for the prohibition of the Jews from exercising medicine, or other professions. The inhibition of intermarriage between Jews and Christians, which is yet in vigor, is clearly justified by reason of the obvious danger for the faith of the Christian party and for the spiritual welfare of the children born of such alliances. With regard to the special legislation against printing, circulating, etc., the Talmud, there was the particular grievance that the Talmud contained at the time scurrilous attacks upon Jesus and the Christians (cf. Pick, “The Personality of Jesus in the Talmud” in the “Monist”, January, 1910), and the permanent reason that “that extraordinary compilation, with much that is grave and noble, contains also so many puerilities, immoral precepts, and anti-social maxims, that Christian courts may well have deemed it right to resort to stringent measures to prevent Christians from being seduced into adhesion to a system so preposterous” (Catholic Dictionary, 484).

History proves indeed that church authorities exercised at times considerable pressure upon the Jews to promote their conversion;"
 
Every 15th Century Catholic in Spain knew and understood three unequivocal truths concerning the Jews:

a) God rewards those who believe in Him and follow Him. The Jews rejected God and committed Deicide. For this they are cursed by God, forced to wander the world like Cain, and God causes them to suffer.

b) Jews and Judaism are a malignant and negative influence on Christians and Christianity.

c) Jews remain Jews through blindness and flaws in their character.

The Jews of Spain at this time were prosperous, educated and influential. This to the Catholic of that time was an anomaly. Christians are rewarded and Jews are cursed. The world had gone askew.

The usual solution to put things back in their rightful place was to bring suffering to the Jew. This was begun on March 15th, 1391. From city to city and town to town, wild Catholic mobs killed thousands of Jews with the cry “convert or die”. This should have placed things back in perspective. Jews for all their prosperity are not to be envied. They are attacked and killed. There is no need for jealousy and no need to ponder how a Jew, those who rejected God and are rejected by God, could possibly be better off than a God fearing faithful Christian.

The Jews of Spain, however, did not bear these attacks with the stoicism and the faith that have guided the Jews for thousands of years. They began to abandon their eternal covenant with God and to convert to Christianity. It is irrelevant that for most, certainly for the children of these converts, the conversion was sincere. To the Gentile, these were merely Jews masquerading as Christians. Worst of all, the world can not be set right again if these Jews are protected under the cloak of their “false” Christianity. The jealousy and incongruity of the prosperous and influential Jew remained burning. The only solution was to expose these false Christians, reveal the Jew underneath and make the Jew suffer. If not, the world could not be put back in its proper place.

By the end of the Spanish Inquisition every single one of the three hundred to four hundred thousand Jews of the Iberian peninsula will be converted, murdered or expelled. A thousand years of Jewish communal life is terminated.

To further understand the underlying attitudes of Catholic Spain and the Catholic Church toward Jews at that time, it should be noted that with the expulsion of the Jews in 1492, a series of laws, the estatutos de limpieza de sangre (statutes of blood purity) were promulgated. According to these laws, anyone with Jewish ancestry was excluded from occupying positions of prestige in Spanish society.

In 1547 the archbishop of Toledo issued a new law banning any Christian who was descended from Jews from receiving any form of assistance from the archdiocese. In 1555 the law was ratified by Pope Paul IV and served as a model for the Church throughout Spain. Candidates for admission to universities or the civil service had to submit genealogies to show that they were free from Jewish blood. Those found to have had a Jewish ancestor were denied the position and publicly humiliated. Various monastic and other Church religious orders similarly excluded descendants of Jews. In 1592 the Jesuit order, founded by the Spaniard Ignatius Loyola, introduced a rule forbidding the the admission of men of Jewish origin, calculating ancestry to the fifth generation. This rule was expunged only in 1946 and was often cited by both the Nazis and Italian fascists to show that their racial policies merely echoed those of the Church’s most respected religious order.A Church organization of the time explained that it was a matter of purity. As the murderers of Jesus, the Jews of his time acquired an indelible blood taint that was passed on to succeeding generations.

As for the blood libel I would point you to the late 19th century promulgation of the blood libel in the Vatican linked press and it’s influence in the demonization of the Jew in Europe in the years before the Shoah.
 
There has been some recent scholarship about the relationship between Christian theology and the Jews - passed to me by a Jewish friend in the Conservative tradition.

It is in regards to Saint Augustine:

time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1864878,00.html

A relevant passage of the article for this discussion would be:
What about the impression that although Augustine said that Christians “should not kill” Jews he still wanted them to be miserable — to “survive but not thrive” — as an example of what happens to people who do not accept Christ?
“Do not kill them” is from Psalm 59, which Augustine uses to argue that Christians should not “kill” the Jews’ Jewish traditions because they come from God. He believes that God himself maintained the Jews’ existence as a people because their devotion to the Torah broadcast the antiquity and authenticity of the Jewish Bible, which Augustine held contained prophecies of Christ. So yes, he thought the Jews should survive. The “But not thrive” line is a non-Augustinian addition of a later period.
The book can be found here:

amazon.com/Augustine-Jews-Christian-Defense-Judaism/dp/0385502702

And outlines a very painstaking process by Augustine of Hippo from being part of the anti-Jewish movement to following his own logic and faith to a conclusion that made him benign to the Jewish people in a world that hated them.

Let me emphasize that point: He’s the only one out of the whole theological tradition in the West at that time who held this opinion.

Although im not religious, you have to respect a man willing to admit he’s wrong when logic shows him so. 😉

As i’m unfamiliar with the “Eastern Fathers” - I was wondering if someoen who had knowledge of the Orthodox tradition could chime in.

It is a sincere pity for your Chosen and your people, that his viewpoint did not win the day…
 
Unless ChosenPeople cites his sources for claims, it’s just best to ignore him.
 
Chosenpeople, I wanted to say this before I even read Windfish’s post, I honestly did. You are not offering enough proof for your claims. If you do offer proof, then I’ll research on it to find if it really is authentic because if it is, I’ll beleive it. I love the Catholic Church but I’m not a propagandist for the government of the Church, I only propagate the faith.

For one thing, I don’t beleive that all the universities in Spain didn’t admit people who were of Jewish descent, be they Catholic or not. There were many Jewish-Spanish saints, especially Ftaher Avila, Siant John of the Cross and Siant Teresa of Avila. Yes, Saint Teresa was Jewish, THE Saint Teresa of Avila, the foundress of the discalced Carmelites, one of the biggest, holiest and most Marian orders in the history of the Church. If the Churhc in SPian was so antisemitic, how did these Jews become Priests and nuns? Please offer proof like I did: from historians, books, documents, statements, anything that constitutes proof.
 
Chosenpeople, I wanted to say this before I even read Windfish’s post, I honestly did. You are not offering enough proof for your claims. If you do offer proof, then I’ll research on it to find if it really is authentic because if it is, I’ll beleive it. I love the Catholic Church but I’m not a propagandist for the government of the Church, I only propagate the faith.

For one thing, I don’t beleive that all the universities in Spain didn’t admit people who were of Jewish descent, be they Catholic or not. There were many Jewish-Spanish saints, especially Ftaher Avila, Siant John of the Cross and Siant Teresa of Avila. Yes, Saint Teresa was Jewish, THE Saint Teresa of Avila, the foundress of the discalced Carmelites, one of the biggest, holiest and most Marian orders in the history of the Church. If the Churhc in SPian was so antisemitic, how did these Jews become Priests and nuns? Please offer proof like I did: from historians, books, documents, statements, anything that constitutes proof.
I’m presuming that the Catholic encyclopedia is an acceptable source as to Jews being placed in ghettos or being made to wear special clothing marking them as Jews or being denied basic rights and the motivations of the Church in these matters.

I also presume that the murderous Catholic pogroms against the Jews which began on March 15th 1391 and spread throughout Spain and names like Ferdinand Martinez are common knowledge to any student of the Spanish Inquisition.

Apparently, your requirement for proof concerns the limpieza de sangre or purity of blood statutes. However, let me assure you these statutes and the motivation for their enactment are niether secret or obscure. Just to check me out- may I suggest going to google and searching “Spain Jews purity of blood statutes” - I received 1,530,000 hits. Let me know if this is sufficient.🤷
 
If my understanding of catholic dogma is correct, Only that which is infallibly declared (bearing nihil obistat/whatever criteria is necessary for the pope to say “im saying this infallibly”) so…

What we would need from “chosen ppl” and the catholics, is proof of their respective position
  1. official church dogmas bearing the “seal of infallibly”
  2. we would need sources from professionals, and websites which hopefully end in “.edu” to prove the other claims of general treatment of the Jews by the catholics- even if said treatment goes against #1…
I mean, if Chosen ppl quotes from “Jews for judiasm” and the catholics quote from fssp.org/en/index.htm we will never get anywhere, as the catholics dont accept “Jews for Judiasm” as objective, and Jews wont veiw fssp as objective…

baring that, im sure making false aqusations (false= absent with documentation for said aqusation) is wrong in any religon
 
for instance, here is a start.

pro “catholic church is antisemitic”:

would be
kanaan.org/international/israel/israel1.htm#middleages

its not the greatest, but he atleast attempts to source his stuff with a bibliography. now maybe most of his sources are all written by fanatical anti catholic protestants but… for now at-least there is a “source”.
 
This thread has been rather fascinating and i am quite curious as to what evidence turns up for both parties involved.

While at work I happened to query a few friends who run on both lines and they pointed out that Disinherited’s statement:
Chosenpeople, if something is true (in this case the Catholic relgion being the true religion and not Judaism) then nobody and I mean nobody can change the truth so as to suite his own caprices, whether they be Jewish, Muslim, Protestant or Buddhist.
Let me tell you something, why don’t you research a bit on Catholic theology which tells us why the Catholic relgion is the true religion and why the Jewish one isn’t the true one anymore?
Runs Counter to the Opinion of Pope Benedict XVI himself…
“Israel is in the hands of God, who will save it ‘as a whole’ at the proper time, when the number of Gentiles is full,” the pope writes. He says that Christians should “wait for the time fixed for this by God” instead of evangelizing to the Jewish people."
-Pope Benedict the XVI, Jesus of Nazareth Vol. 2

His full position is in resonance with Saint Bernard and Hildergard Brem who both stated that the Jews are essentially a matter for God to handle.
 
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