Church Abuses of the Sacrament of Marrage with regard to Annulments, etc

[whatevergirl]

Thank you for the kind words. I am truly happy and glad that God sought me out, shook me up and got me tom come into the Church. My conversion, by the way, was sudden and supernatural and miraculous. It was also dramatic (a woman died in my arms, another woman who was not there spoke to me, I lived the very same two weeks of my life twice, both times in real time but in less time than one breath and as part of this I was in two places at the same time).

As a consequence of my conversion, my wife (not baptized) divorced me. I received my declaration of nullity last month.

After a year, I finally got the nerve to tell the whole story to my priest and RCIA sponsor. (I was afraid they would think I was a nut.) They asked me to write down my story and I eventually ended up with a book-length manuscript. At my priests suggestion, I submitted it for publishing and it will be published soon (I have published other works before).

Are you kidding me??? Wow–that is remarkable! I am sorry for your wife leaving you–that must have been shocking considering that she left you because you converted? Aaaahhh…so this is why you know so much about annulments! And I thought you were just well read on annulments.

Well…God works it all out, as you know, for our good, and the fact that your story is going to be written somewhere…someday…for the public to hear/read…is just something only dreams are made of…God’s dreams, and your reality. I think it’s a beautiful testimony of the faith.:harp:

Blessings to you rpp!

 

[Phemie]

You can’t even begin to seek a Declaration of Nullity until after the divorce takes place, and you can’t have a divorce without having a reason to divorce (such as adultery, etc.). So by the time it comes around to seeking the Declaration of Nullity, you aren’t dealing with a situation where there was no adultery, or no abuse, or whatever.

Of course you can get a divorce without a reason. No-fault divorce is now the norm and all it takes is for two people to decide they want one. A couple we know, we’d watched him grow up, did that. One day they looked at each other and said
“Is this working for you?”
“No.”
“Shall we end it?”
“Yes.”

They sat down, determined what each had brought into the marriage, split everything else 50/50, went to the court and in no time they were divorced. No fuss, no muss, no lawyers, no big expense. He’s since remarried and has a child. He’s not Catholic but, IIRC, she is.

 

[Just_Lurking]

Here is an example of a decision from the Roman Rota that held a marriage to be valid despite adultery:

S. R. Rotae Dec., XXIV (1932), 35-40.

When Paul was about twenty years of age he sought the hand of Louise but was rejected. He then began to live immorally with a certain Helena. On July 22, 1914, he finally married Louise and became the father of four children. Nevertheless, he still continued to retain Helena as his mistress. In 1923 there was a separation and divorce. Whereupon, Louise impugned the validity of the marriage, asserting that Paul had formulated an intention, contra bonum fidei. It was established that Paul committed adultery but it was not proved that he intended to exclude the bonum fidei. Hence, the decision of the S. R. Rota was: Non constat.

 

[Ailina]

You can’t even begin to seek a Declaration of Nullity until after the divorce takes place, and you can’t have a divorce without having a reason to divorce (such as adultery, etc.). So by the time it comes around to seeking the Declaration of Nullity, you aren’t dealing with a situation where there was no adultery, or no abuse, or whatever.

Well, actually you don’t need a reason to divorce anymore, since No Fault is now the norm in Canada. Adultery doesn’t matter in our court system at all. If you go for a divorce on the grounds of adultery, you are really looked down upon as a vindictive and spiteful spouse by our judges, and what they decide makes no difference in the end. I think No Fault makes it too easy for people to leave their marriages, because No Fault renders marriage meaningless.

My spouse did leave me and petition for divorce, after I asked him to make a choice between his family and his extramarital encounters. Did I know he had this weakness when we first married? No, I did not. In any case, he did not choose his family and left.

I could not stay in a marriage like that, because what would I be teaching our children if I did? That a wife is a doormat, and that it is okay to have casual encounters outside the marriage? I would have been condoning his behavior if I had stayed and put up with it. How could I perform my marital duties if he was bringing home STDs and putting me at risk? How would he ever repent if I was there to make his life easy for him by covering up for him?

I have applied for an annulment, not because I want to date or remarry (because I honestly don’t, and doubt I will ever be able to trust another man again), but because I want to find out if there were conditions at the beginning of our marriage that I was blind to. I’m hoping it will help me heal from the trauma I have gone through in the past few years.

 

[anna1978]

OP, I soooooo understand your frustration! I’m from a Dutch Mennonite background and in my upbringing it was really simple: when a man and a woman ‘come together’ they become ONE FLESH through the act of sexual intercourse, THAT is essentially the ‘marriage’, even if no official ceremony/signing of documents has taken place yet. And it can NEVER be undone, no excuses, no ‘I didn’t know what it meant’…NO: you sleep with someone, you ARE MARRIED FOR LIFE! To me, that meant I knew how important remaining a virgin was, how important it was to ‘save myself’ and to this day, although I know the Catholic Church doesn’t believe it, this is how I read the passage in Genesis 2: a man will leave his parents and cleave to his woman and THEY WILL BE ONE! Permanently, no excuses!

And yes, it’s the single one thing even after 18 years as a Catholic I’ve got a problem with: if you slept with someone, how can you say ‘It never happened, we were never ONE’…

sigh…I find it a ‘backdoor’ to get away with sin. Sorry, I know it won’t be popular to say this, but I totally and utterly understand the OP!

 

[Phemie]

Here is an example of a decision from the Roman Rota that held a marriage to be valid despite adultery:

S. R. Rotae Dec., XXIV (1932), 35-40.

When Paul was about twenty years of age he sought the hand of Louise but was rejected. He then began to live immorally with a certain Helena. On July 22, 1914, he finally married Louise and became the father of four children. Nevertheless, he still continued to retain Helena as his mistress. In 1923 there was a separation and divorce. Whereupon, Louise impugned the validity of the marriage, asserting that Paul had formulated an intention, contra bonum fidei. It was established that Paul committed adultery but it was not proved that he intended to exclude the bonum fidei. Hence, the decision of the S. R. Rota was: Non constat.

I think that’s one that screamed for an appeal.

 

[Just_Lurking]

I think that’s one that screamed for an appeal.

I thought the Rota was the highest Catholic tribunal that hears annulment cases. So where could the appeal go to?

 

[morelia92]

Wow gang… I’m sorry
I didn’t mean to get everyone all fired up!

I must say that I am VERY sorry about my situation.
I have spoken to my priest about moving out or abstaining until the declaration of nulity.

I have not even seen my “ex-husband” for over 20 years.
I am ashamed.
I was not Catholic, had no idea of the Church’s expectations.

Isn’t that why our Lord died?
Remember the woman caught in sin?

“Woman where is your husband?”
" I have no husband"
“What you say is right, you have had 5 and you are not married to the man you are with…GO AND SIN NO MORE”

Jesus Christ died to save us from ourselves. If anulments were not ok IN LIMITED situations, the Church would not allow for them.
The CHURCH is HOLY…unfortuantely we who are in the Church are not yet.

 

[morelia92]

OP, I soooooo understand your frustration! I’m from a Dutch Mennonite background and in my upbringing it was really simple: when a man and a woman ‘come together’ they become ONE FLESH through the act of sexual intercourse, THAT is essentially the ‘marriage’, even if no official ceremony/signing of documents has taken place yet. And it can NEVER be undone, no excuses, no ‘I didn’t know what it meant’…NO: you sleep with someone, you ARE MARRIED FOR LIFE! To me, that meant I knew how important remaining a virgin was, how important it was to ‘save myself’ and to this day, although I know the Catholic Church doesn’t believe it, this is how I read the passage in Genesis 2: a man will leave his parents and cleave to his woman and THEY WILL BE ONE! Permanently, no excuses!

And yes, it’s the single one thing even after 18 years as a Catholic I’ve got a problem with: if you slept with someone, how can you say ‘It never happened, we were never ONE’…

sigh…I find it a ‘backdoor’ to get away with sin. Sorry, I know it won’t be popular to say this, but I totally and utterly understand the OP!

You are right but to my shame I have been “married” then numerous times. Starting with my sexual abuse when I was 5 …

You all have good points…I only want to serve Christ!

 

[Phemie]

I thought the Rota was the highest Catholic tribunal that hears annulment cases. So where could the appeal go to?

Oops, you’re right. It obviously was appealed. OTOH, how could a marriage be valid when the groom had a mistress and every intention of not ‘forsaking all others’? Considering the date, it sounds more a case of giving a wink and a nod to ‘boys will be boys’. Want to bet that if she’d been the one with a lover that the marriage would have been deemed valid?

 

[tee_eff_em]

Oops, you’re right. It obviously was appealed. OTOH, how could a marriage be valid when the groom had a mistress and

every intention of not 'forsaking all others'

?

Do you know the facts of the case? I don’t. I only know the decision above presented, which says that fact was not established to the satisfaction of the tribunal.

:twocents:
tee
Not A Canon Lawyer

 

[Lillith]

You are right but to my shame I have been “married” then numerous times. Starting with my sexual abuse when I was 5 …

You all have good points…I only want to serve Christ!

All of your traumatic past plays an important roll in your decisions and are taken into consideration when determining the validity of your marriage.

God Bless you morelia! I have a similar background and story…my atheist upbringing slowed down…heck it stunted my moral conscience…practically nonexistant at the time I married to escape…heck no I didn’t understand what a true Sacramental marriage was…I was just grasping the concept that there was a God at the time:blush:

Just pray…go through the process and have faith…

 

[DL82]

This is a topic that concerns me too. I’ve heard that many people getting married don’t understand what they are consenting to with their vows, so the sacrament is not valid. That in itself is terrifying, to think that we are so horribly taught, especially when every couple to be married in a Catholic Church has to at least meet with the priest (I think). There is NO EXUSE for that

Unless the marriage is taking place in a foreign language, or unless the person has a mental age too low to be considered able in law to consent to marriage in the first place, how can they not understand what they are consenting to?

“Forsaking all others… for as long as you both shall live.”
That’s the vow, you think about it before saying “I do.”

Also, anyone getting married in a Catholic Church has to sign a prenuptial enquiry form with their priest, where they have to sign yes to 4 propositions, that they understand that Catholic marriage is:

1. Lifelong
2. Exclusive
3. Open to life
4. Sacramental
   Also, in most diocese, you have to go through up to 6 months of prenuptial preparation classes in church before your wedding. I was engaged, I know all this from first-hand experience.

In what way, other than sticking your fingers in your ears and going “La-la-la-la!” can you not be aware of what you are consenting to in getting married?

 

[rpp]

Unless the marriage is taking place in a foreign language, or unless the person has a mental age too low to be considered able in law to consent to marriage in the first place, how can they not understand what they are consenting to?

“Forsaking all others… for as long as you both shall live.”
That’s the vow, you think about it before saying “I do.”

Also, anyone getting married in a Catholic Church has to sign a prenuptial enquiry form with their priest, where they have to sign yes to 4 propositions, that they understand that Catholic marriage is:

1. Lifelong
2. Exclusive
3. Open to life
4. Sacramental
   Also, in most diocese, you have to go through up to 6 months of prenuptial preparation classes in church before your wedding. I was engaged, I know all this from first-hand experience.

In what way, other than sticking your fingers in your ears and going “La-la-la-la!” can you not be aware of what you are consenting to in getting married?

Well, you could do like I did; get married by a Wiccan Priestess.

 

[rusty20]

Also, anyone getting married in a Catholic Church has to sign a prenuptial enquiry form with their priest, where they have to sign yes to 4 propositions, that they understand that Catholic marriage is:

1. Lifelong
2. Exclusive
3. Open to life
4. Sacramental
   Also, in most diocese, you have to go through up to 6 months of prenuptial preparation classes in church before your wedding. I was engaged, I know all this from first-hand experience.

In what way, other than sticking your fingers in your ears and going “La-la-la-la!” can you not be aware of what you are consenting to in getting married?

I concur. I find that only a moron could go through all that prep and realistically not know what they are getting into. Thus, annulments should be incredibly rare, assuming that most people go through marriage prep. Which is also why I believe the church abuses annulments and their meaning on a regular basis…

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

I concur. I find that only a moron could go through all that prep and realistically not know what they are getting into. There are many morons in the world. Thus, annulments should be incredibly rare, assuming that most people go through marriage prep. not all marriage prep is created equal. Which is also why I believe the church abuses annulments and their meaning on a regular basis… Well, to my mind, the Magisterium does a great job.

 

[rpp]

Unless the marriage is taking place in a foreign language, or unless the person has a mental age too low to be considered able in law to consent to marriage in the first place, how can they not understand what they are consenting to?

“Forsaking all others… for as long as you both shall live.”
That’s the vow, you think about it before saying “I do.”

Also, anyone getting married in a Catholic Church has to sign a prenuptial enquiry form with their priest, where they have to sign yes to 4 propositions, that they understand that Catholic marriage is:

1. Lifelong
2. Exclusive
3. Open to life
4. Sacramental
   Also, in most diocese, you have to go through up to 6 months of prenuptial preparation classes in church before your wedding. I was engaged, I know all this from first-hand experience.

In what way, other than sticking your fingers in your ears and going “La-la-la-la!” can you not be aware of what you are consenting to in getting married?

I concur. I find that only a moron could go through all that prep and realistically not know what they are getting into. Thus, annulments should be incredibly rare, assuming that most people go through marriage prep. Which is also why I believe the church abuses annulments and their meaning on a regular basis…

Presuming they actually DID go through an authentically Catholic marriage-prep program, there is also the possibility of lying when they take the vows. For example a couple knowingly chooses to use artificial contraception lied when they vowed to be open to the Children that God may provide.

And, of course there are those who do not go through any type of marriage prep, are married civilly or by some wacky “minister”. Such was my case. (It really was a Wiccan priestess. We even invited her to bring her live-boyfriend and girlfriend.) We were both atheists at the time.

 

[rusty20]

Presuming they actually DID go through an authentically Catholic marriage-prep program, there is also the possibility of lying when they take the vows. For example a couple knowingly chooses to use artificial contraception lied when they vowed to be open to the Children that God may provide.

It is a sad world indeed, because the last statistics i heard, over 90% of catholic couples use artificial contraception, so almost all marriages are invalid then…

sad indeed

 

[jmcrae]

It is a sad world indeed, because the last statistics i heard, over 90% of catholic couples use artificial contraception, so almost all marriages are invalid then…

sad indeed

If they started their marriage with the intent to contracept, then yes, they are in an invalid marriage.

 

[AnotherChance]

I concur. I find that only a moron could go through all that prep and realistically not know what they are getting into. Thus, annulments should be incredibly rare, assuming that most people go through marriage prep. Which is also why I believe the church abuses annulments and their meaning on a regular basis…

I guess I’m glad that there are those Catholics who are more absolute and unforgiving than the Church. I’m also glad that the Church is still willing to grant annulments, since I have been told by my priest I have a good chance of getting my first (civil) marriage annulled. Otherwise I doubt if our family would be coming back to the Catholic church. My husband was baptized Catholic; I am converting.

I hope those prayerfully considering annulment are not too discouraged by those on this forum using words like “moron”, etc.