Church Abuses of the Sacrament of Marrage with regard to Annulments, etc

[tee_eff_em]

It is a sad world indeed, because the last statistics i heard, over 90% of catholic couples use artificial contraception, so almost all marriages are invalid then

If they started their marriage with the intent to contracept, then yes, they are in an invalid marriage.

No marriage is invalid until it has been proven so.

tee

 

[jmcrae]

No marriage is invalid until it has been proven so.

tee

Thank you, that’s an excellent point.

 

[rpp]

I guess I’m glad that there are those Catholics who are more absolute and unforgiving than the Church. I’m also glad that the Church is still willing to grant annulments, since I have been told by my priest I have a good chance of getting my first (civil) marriage annulled. Otherwise I doubt if our family would be coming back to the Catholic church. My husband was baptized Catholic; I am converting.

** I hope those prayerfully considering annulment are not too discouraged by those on this forum using words like “moron”, etc.**

Welcome to the Church. I hope all goes well for you and that your current marriage can be eventually blessed by the Church. May God bless you and grant you peace.

 

[rusty20]

my apologies for the ‘offensive’ term. I hope you understand what I was trying to say though…

 

[AnotherChance]

my apologies for the ‘offensive’ term. I hope you understand what I was trying to say though…

I understand what you were saying. People speak the words such as “til death do us part” in most marriage ceremonies in which they are making a solemn vow. However, you don’t have control over the other person who is making the vow and their intentions. That is what my annulment is about.

I fully own being a fool in the past. One reason I am joining the Catholic church is so that my children will hopefully not repeat my painful mistakes.

That is what I meant about being glad there are Catholics who are sticking to absolutes. I have met many Catholics over the years who do not do this, and that was one thing that kept me away until now. My impression was that Catholics have all these rules, but hardly anyone follows them. So I thought why should I bother to get an annulment and go through all of this, when everyone else is just doing whatever they want? Anyway, God had other plans for me and made me see that just because an ideal is not fully realized, this does not mean it is not an ideal worth holding.

 

[morelia92]

All of your traumatic past plays an important roll in your decisions and are taken into consideration when determining the validity of your marriage.

God Bless you morelia! I have a similar background and story…my atheist upbringing slowed down…heck it stunted my moral conscience…practically nonexistant at the time I married to escape…heck no I didn’t understand what a true Sacramental marriage was…I was just grasping the concept that there was a God at the time:blush:

Just pray…go through the process and have faith…

Thanks for the encouragement!
Only a few more weeks to go…thank the Lord and then I can receive my Lord!

 

[morelia92]

Unless the marriage is taking place in a foreign language, or unless the person has a mental age too low to be considered able in law to consent to marriage in the first place, how can they not understand what they are consenting to?

“Forsaking all others… for as long as you both shall live.”
That’s the vow, you think about it before saying “I do.”

Also, anyone getting married in a Catholic Church has to sign a prenuptial enquiry form with their priest, where they have to sign yes to 4 propositions, that they understand that Catholic marriage is:

1. Lifelong
2. Exclusive
3. Open to life
4. Sacramental
   Also, in most diocese, you have to go through up to 6 months of prenuptial preparation classes in church before your wedding. I was engaged, I know all this from first-hand experience.

In what way, other than sticking your fingers in your ears and going “La-la-la-la!” can you not be aware of what you are consenting to in getting married?

My “first husband” Mario was undocumented…when I left he asked if I could at “least” finish the Immigration Process…
He told me on NUMEROUS occasions we weren’t really married nor would he EVER marry me in the Church…and we were only together 4 mos. after marriage…

I was lonely, wanting a family really bad!

You’re right, he knew WHAT he was doing and it had nothing to do with any Sacramental Value

 

[morelia92]

I concur. I find that only a moron could go through all that prep and realistically not know what they are getting into. Thus, annulments should be incredibly rare, assuming that most people go through marriage prep. Which is also why I believe the church abuses annulments and their meaning on a regular basis…

There is NO preparation in a civil marriage… only a contract to sign.

 

[morelia92]

I guess I’m glad that there are those Catholics who are more absolute and unforgiving than the Church. I’m also glad that the Church is still willing to grant annulments, since I have been told by my priest I have a good chance of getting my first (civil) marriage annulled. Otherwise I doubt if our family would be coming back to the Catholic church. My husband was baptized Catholic; I am converting.

I hope those prayerfully considering annulment are not too discouraged by those on this forum using words like “moron”, etc.

No …thanks for your encouragement!
I just want to serve the Lord…
Go and sin no more!

 

[hasikelee]

Well, you could do like I did; get married by a Wiccan Priestess.

On a serious note to the OP, surely the numbers of threads on this forum talking about the crazy and heinous things spouses do should clue us in to how easily one could end up with a spouse who lied/denied their vows on the wedding day.

Look at American culture regarding sex, artificial contraception and the value of children. How many couples stood at the altar, with one person saying “I will” or “I do” all the while saying “Heck no” in their head?

Imagine dating someone for years, marrying them, thinking everything is holy and good, only to find out that he or she was determined not to have kids all along.

What about that one thread started by the woman who admitted she and her husband stood at the altar all the while 100% adamant about never having children…and now she was unhappy because DH wanted to have kids?

What about the 'ole stereotype where they get married, then at the reception, the new wife gets drunk and everyone finds out she is carrying on a sexual relationship with the best man?

People who are evil, who lie, who cheat, who abuse and who had full intentions to do these things do exist!

 

[GhostMan]

People who are evil, who lie, who cheat, who abuse and who had full intentions to do these things do exist!

Yes, but if statistics are to be believed, this number is FAR too high among people married in the church.

To me, the annullment should be so rare as to be nearly a miracle. I do not believe that the number of marriages that are “discovered” to be non-sacramental is even close to true. I believe that this is a hugely abused area and only because it serves the purposes of the devout is it ignored. Face it, the non-devout don’t care. Only those who want to remain in the good graces of the church do.

The number of annullments granted is a scandal. Yes, a scandal.

 

[hasikelee]

Yes, but if statistics are to be believed, this number is FAR too high among people married in the church.

To me, the annullment should be so rare as to be nearly a miracle. I do not believe that the number of marriages that are “discovered” to be non-sacramental is even close to true. I believe that this is a hugely abused area and only because it serves the purposes of the devout is it ignored. Face it, the non-devout don’t care. Only those who want to remain in the good graces of the church do.

The number of annullments granted is a scandal. Yes, a scandal.

I don’t see why it’s anymore surprising then the rest of the statistics out there:

Isn’t something like 34% of women who get abortions are Catholic?

I thought more than 50% of Catholics said they don’t believe in transubstantiation?

Oh yeah, more than 2/3rds of Catholic couples believe it is okay to use artificial contraception.

A dab of about 20% of married couples have one or more spouse permanently sterilized through a surgical procedure.

I don’t see how you can pull from a crowd of people with that little of a faith and expect them to make a valid stab at a sacrament. The anullment numbers appear pretty low when you think about how poorly catechized American Catholics are and how poorly they practice their faith.

A bit more of a relevant argument you could make would be to say those programs designed to train pre-marriage couples are failing and are a scandal.

But that leads to a counter argument. It doesn’t matter how much teaching you get before marriage. If you want to pop a pill and have 2.1 kids, deny the presence of Christ in the Eucharist, refuse to attend Sunday Mass and basicall lie your way through the process, chances are you’re gonna have a pretty ******, invalid marriage.

 

[rpp]

Another sad statistic is the percentage of Catholic marriages that end in divorce is virtually the same as the percentage of all marriages that end in divorce.

Catholics need to set a better example and they are not doing it.

Concluding that the Annulment process is flawed or scandalous is too simple. Perhaps it is the marriage prep and the priests who will marry anyone with a pulse as long they are different genders. Are these people grilled about the marriage prep.

Look at the previous posts on this (resurrected) 4 year old thread. Look at the marriage prep that was described. THAT is what is scandalous. There really are couple married in the Catholic Church who were never told that contraception really is a grave sin and that divorce really is NOT possible. I know, I have met many people who went through marriage prep and were never told these things.

I believe the large number of annulments represent three things for three different groups.

1: For Catholic couples, frighteningly poor and heterodox marriage prep programs as well as cowardly marriage prep leaders afraid to tell people the real truth.

2: For couple where only one is Catholic and the other will not convert, same as above if married in the Church. If not married in the Church, then they never had this decent marriage prep at all. I do not feel that such a couple should be permitted to marry in the Church. That priests do this is another form of cowardice.

3: For converts. People who lived secular or at least non-Catholic lives and made mistakes. People like me. Annulments in these cases reflect the reality that a person must be part of the Church to *properly *receive the graces a sacrament brings.

 

[Phemie]

I got married in 1975. I saw my pastor for about 1 hour in July at the first contact with the parish to do the paperwork. I then saw him again at the back of the church on the evening of our wedding in October. No, that doesn’t include Sundays.

Marriage preparation?? Nobody I know who got married around the time I did went through that.

DH probably had more preparation than I did, he was posted 1000 miles away and did whatever prep he did with the military chaplain – I think the talks had more to do with him not being Catholic than any actual ‘marriage’ preparation. I wouldn’t know, we never discussed it.

In our parish the pastor does the preparation with each couple individually. He believes that ABC is up to each person’s conscience, he laughed when I suggested that we should get someone to teach NFP – there’s nobody teaching that in our town.

 

[ajcoley1]

So a decree of invalidity is granted if there was no understanding of the marriage vows? Am I correct? So if there was no abuse during the dating period but the marriage became abusive after 10 or so years, is a decree of nullility not granted because the abuse happened later, during a change or a mental illness, as is my case?
I’m confused. I’m divorced for my safety. I hope I’m not destined to be alone because I choose safety.

 

[hasikelee]

So a decree of invalidity is granted if there was no understanding of the marriage vows? Am I correct? So if there was no abuse during the dating period but the marriage became abusive after 10 or so years, is a decree of nullility not granted because the abuse happened later, during a change or a mental illness, as is my case?
I’m confused. I’m divorced for my safety. I hope I’m not destined to be alone because I choose safety.

Right, the decree is saying essentially no sacrament happened.

For example, if someone was leading a double-life while dating, and married in the Church while continuing this double-life, then the wife accidentally found out about it, it could probably be anulled as invalid.

But, if someone was faithful at the time of the vows and later on began to lead a double life, then the sacrament would be valid.

Another example…if, at the time of the wedding, a wife was lying to her husband about wanting kids and secretly had her tubes tied, it could be grounds for anullment.

But, if someone was open to children and confirmed her vows at the time of the sacrament, and later on decided against kids, the sacrament would be valid.

 

[ajcoley1]

Describe “Married in the Church.”
I did not marry in the Catholic church, not realizing how anti-Catholicv he was. I was raised Catholic, he was not raised in any faith but was baptized a Baptist as an adult, then found the Church of Drugs and Alcohol, and Abuse.

 

[Phemie]

Describe “Married in the Church.”
I did not marry in the Catholic church, not realizing how anti-Catholicv he was. I was raised Catholic, he was not raised in any faith but was baptized a Baptist as an adult, then found the Church of Drugs and Alcohol, and Abuse.

Catholics are bound to marry in the Catholic Church under its rules unless they get a dispensation from their bishop.

If you are a Catholic and got married outside the Church without a dispensation you will probably be granted a decree of nullity due to lack of canonical form.

 

[cecilia97]

The point is that Sacraments are not a casual thing. The Sacrament of Marriage is a very holy thing and I think it is far more appropriate for The Church to tell someone “I’m sorry you must remain celibate the rest of your life and/or seek re-union with your spouse” rather than to have the Church say “eh… a Sacrament probably didn’t happen… go ahead and shack up with whoever you are dating now”.

Frankly I feel nearly as much frustration toward people who are already dating and pursuing marriage before they even look into annulment. If you’re marriage has not been annulled by The Church any romantic pursuits even those that would normally be ok outside a marriage are WRONG. Does this person really have any respect for the Sacrament if they are dating another before they know they are not still married in God’s eyes?

Umm…the Church NEVER says “eh… a Sacrament probably didn’t happen… go ahead and shack up with whoever you are dating now”…and thank God!

I think you may have a skewed or “outsider” view of the process, since you have not been through it. That’s OK…many, many Catholics have misconceptions about annulments.

I was granted a declaration of nullity earlier this year. I had a rather simple case. It still took 15 months, not including the 2 months I spent filling out the petition before I applied. I don’t think there is much casual about the actual nullity process.

I’m not now dating, nor have I ever dated anyone but my former spouse.

I petitioned for nullity in order to learn my status within the Church and the Sacraments. I’m not the only Catholic to do it this way.

 

[ajcoley1]

I am seeking an annulment for the same reason, as I have lots of questions, having been away for awhile. Nothing quite like a good confession! I have no intention of dating, but I would be stupid to say I NEVER will. I don’t know where I’ll be in 10 years, and I want to know where I stand. I also don’t want to drag up the miserable memories again, should God send me a spouse.