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KennySe
Guest
Nice article!! I’ve posted it on yet another new thread on the same subject.
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jurist12
Guest
Instead of criticising the girls’s mother of “ulterior” motives or the press for “Catholic bashing” why not use your hearts and minds to find a solution to this issue. Some here said that the little girl can still receive all of the benefits of the Eucharist by only drinking the wine, that sounds all well and good, but since the girl is a minor what if her mother does not want her to drink wine? I admit that I know very little about celiac disease but from what I have heard about it through this story even consuming even the smallest amount of wheat can cause serious problems. The question to ask is “What would Jesus say and do in this situation” not some bureaucracy in Rome that is more concerned with man made rules. It seems that this is exactly the kind of “human tradition” that Jesus in no uncertain terms condemned. In Christ, jurist12
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heber
Guest
I think it is absurd that a priest, according to RC teaching, can turn a wheat wafer into the actual body, soul, and divinity of Christ—so that nothing of bread remains—but cannot do the same for a rice wafer. It is simply unbelievable that people get so twisted up in such doctrinal rules, thinking it is the way to Christ! Pharisees and hypocrites!
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Maccabees
Guest
Well we all know what Jesus would do read the gospels it was bread and wine not rice cakes and water people.
The fact that she is a minor has no bearing here. Communion can be had with no alcoholic wine (fermentation process is immature) or it could be waterd down. YOu fail to see the other side isn’t the mother insisting on her own tradtion of insisting the child have a wafer like her childood memories when her child could legitamately accept the non-alcoholic or watered down wine with no problem. And this alcohol thing doesn’t bother most catholics many kids partake of the cup its mixed water and wine anyway and its only a sip nothing happens. But if she insists there are alternatives is she would request it. The church is proposing a reasonable altenative here but people just like to rant about church rules and tradtion but fail to see the insistence of tradtion on the mother’s side is the crust of the issue. Their is no theological reason that the cup is inferior to the bread. Her misinterpretation of catholic theology and the press is creating a contraoversy when their need not be one.
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Maccabees
Guest
Well for a sola scriptura bible believing christian I see the hypocrisy in your statement. Going by the bible Jesus took bread and wine. So we do the same. But considering I have seen some weird stuff in the non denom circles everything from grape juice to water and crackers to frito corn chips. I guess going Biblical wehn it comes to the last supper is not important. You have just created a tradtion of man.
If there was an outright denial of the sacrament you might have a point. But your anti-catholic bias has reared it ugly head drinking wine is participating in the full sacrament of the body and blood of Jesus. Jesus established this tradition and form not the catholic church we are not free to have rice and water and proclaim this symbolizes my body when the formula is bread and wine and :this is my body and this is my blood.
Let me put it this way Catholicism is entirely reasoanble in its sacraments many Christians insist by baptism by immersion only becusae according to their interpretation of the BIble this is the only way to be baptized. Yet they stray from the formula of the Last Supper? Doesn’t that seem strange? But from reading the early church fathers and instructions written by the apostles such as the Didache Catholicism has within its practical tradtion had pouring, immersion and sprinkling as all valid forms of baptism it is the Baptist here who are legalistic not the catholics. And logically the Bible has thousands in the river Jordan being baptized. No way is this done by immersion. THe river Jordon has a very small area that is deep eneough to be immerssed thousands could not do this at one time many must have been poured on to do this in one day. Anyway all three ways are displayed in the catacombs of the early christians as a witness to the various ways it was done in the early church.
Anyway To carry out this logically I think the same baptist would have a cow if one were not to baptize by water but by milk or pepsi etc. If immersion is a problem so would be baptizing in a differnt liquid would be. That is were the catholic church is coming from you are changing the forula given to us by Christ and carried out by the aposltes. The church has an obligations to be reasonable and fair and accomodating meanwhile not changing the proper form and intention of the sacrament.
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Matt16_18
Guest
A drop of wine mixed with water on a child’s tongue is nothing that any mother needs to fret about. If the child’s mother objects to that, who is really being the obstinate legalist?
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Matt16_18
Guest
Thanks for posting that article.
Neither the Trenton diocese nor the universal Church wants to deprive Haley Waldman of the Eucharist. And in fact many people who suffer from celiac disorder do receive Communion on a regular basis. If their condition is so acute that they cannot digest a wheat-based host, then they receive the Blood of Christ from the chalice. In doing so, they receive Communion as fully as someone who consumes the Body of Christ in the form of wheat-based bread.
A sip of consecrated wine and the problem is solved.
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flatliner
Guest
Why not just have father over to consecrate the little girl’s happy meal? Good grief. This one really chaps my hide. I only recieve in one form, why can’t this girl? Is the precious blood not good enough for her? And the media is playing it like the Church denied the girl communion because of her rare allergy. That is simply not the case. Take the blood, and get on with your faith. Arrrggg.
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davy39
Guest
I agree. Why is the mother making such a big deal of the whole thing? She certainly would have known about the rules ahead of time, and had her daughter receive the precious blood. But this is day and age where if we have rules, we just bend them a little to suit everybody. Soon there will be no rules, if this keeps up.
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Mijoy2
Guest
I was unaware of this. I gather from your comment that receiving wine suffices for body and blood. Does receiving the host suffice for receiving body and blood? If so, why do we receive both?Uh what are you talking about all she has to do is recieve the wine in its accidents and she will reeive the Lord’s body and blood. Read the cathechism as your faith is in a state of confusion.
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neophyte
Guest
Yes, our Lord is fully present, body and blood, soul and divinity, in both the host and the cup: we receive Him fully under either species.
To receive both species is a fuller expression of the sacrament, but we don’t get less of Jesus if we only receive one specie.
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Br.Rich_SFO
Guest
hydrochief said:
She did not have her “First Communion” declared invalid. She actually never received her First Communion of the Body and Blood of Christ. She only received a rice wafer, that is all it was, a rice wafer and nothing more! Essentially the equivelant of a Protestant “communion”. Her Pastor who allowed this did her a great disservice and committed a serious error. He should have simply allowed her to be the first to receive Holy Communion from the Chalice.
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SATEX
Guest
This why there is so many protestant beliefs. If a member want special and personal changes to God’s teachings, they start a new church with their personal wants, not God’s.
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Riley259
Guest
You obviously don’t understand Catholic theology. It is Christ Himself working through the priest that changes the host into the body, blood, soul, and divinity of our Lord. Catholicism is a religion that takes matter very seriously and nothing about the forms of matter used are accidental. Whether it be the difference in genders during marriage, the water used in baptism, the maleness of the priesthood, the oil in confirmation, or the wheat in the consecrated host - it all points toward a deliberate typology that reflects reality: God Himself.
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KennySe
Guest
Br. Rich SFO:
She did not receive her First Communion.
Brother Rich,
your synopsis is not accurate, however.
The little girl’s pastor did no wrong.
He explained to the mother the options for the little girl.
A priest from a nearby parish, on learning of the little girl with celia disease contacted the mother. HE gave the little girl a rice patty.
(I’d like to see what these 'rice wafers" look like that he has a supply of. In the meantime, I will refer to them as patties.).
I wonder if that priest has repented of his misconduct.
I wonder if some of his parishioners have spoken to him of this incident, not knowing that he is the rice-giver. Might some of them say how terribly upset they are that a priest somewhere in New jersey near them, defied Catholic teaching?
In short, we need to pray for that priest.
I hope that all readers re-read your first two sentences out loud, so that it may sink in.
She did not receive her First Communion.
Brother Rich,
your synopsis is not accurate, however.
The little girl’s pastor did no wrong.
He explained to the mother the options for the little girl.
- Low Gluten hosts.
- Partake from the Cup. The Eucharist in the form of wine is still the Eucharist.
A priest from a nearby parish, on learning of the little girl with celia disease contacted the mother. HE gave the little girl a rice patty.
(I’d like to see what these 'rice wafers" look like that he has a supply of. In the meantime, I will refer to them as patties.).
I wonder if that priest has repented of his misconduct.
I wonder if some of his parishioners have spoken to him of this incident, not knowing that he is the rice-giver. Might some of them say how terribly upset they are that a priest somewhere in New jersey near them, defied Catholic teaching?
In short, we need to pray for that priest.
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Br.Rich_SFO
Guest
You are correct I have only read several different versions of the story, I was not there. It was an assumption on my part from what I read, that it was her Pastor who made the exception. I eat Cream of Wheat and Cream of Rice both have the same texture, different color and taste. I have never seen a rice wafer. However I would think, with my limited experience with the cereals that they could be almost identical in form and texture.
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jurist12
Guest
I think deep down most Catholics, not hidebound Trad Catholic Pharissees, like many here seem to be, would wholeheartedly approve of what the Priest did for that little girl by substituting a rice wafer for a wheat wafer. Well did Jesus say of you “Ye strain at a gnat, yet swallow a Camel.” What gets me is that like many Protestants SOME Catholics dictate to God what He can or cannot do. Some here have brought out the idea that if exceptions are made in cases like this then the next step is using Kool-Aid and Doritos as Communion elements, I am not suggesting that, but only in medical cases such as this that wheat wafers be substituted by another type which contains no wheat. Bread flour can be made from different plants besides wheat, rice flour, potato flour, corn flour, etc. In Christ, jurist12
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Matt16_18
Guest
Well said!
What is this story really all about? Why should it receive such press coverage?
There is the stink of gleeful anti-Catholicism wafting around it. We are supposed to see this story as the mean old patriachal legalists that won’t change an arbitrary rule to let a poor little sick girl have her first communion. Sniff. Sob.
How dare these pharisaical oppressors act in this manner! This isn’t what Christ would do! Is it any wonder the Catholics hierarchy won’t allow women priests, or bless homosexual marriages … Blah, blah, blah
Phew!
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WhiteDove
Guest
This whole case epitomizes the epidemic in our society of the outraged victim mentality running amock. This mother wants her darling daughter to have the picture perfect 1st holy communion, inspite of the fact that her little girl has a chronic disorder that is a reality in her life. The church has means to address the issue, but the Mom decides to take it to the media. Soon she’ll be on the talk show circuit talking about the injustice done to her poor child, with the media having a field day.
It’s too bad her daughter has this problem, but it can’t be helped. She needs to take the precious blood only. The mother needs to quit making a public scandal and mockery of the Catholic Church.
It’s too bad her daughter has this problem, but it can’t be helped. She needs to take the precious blood only. The mother needs to quit making a public scandal and mockery of the Catholic Church.
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Matt16_18
Guest
There is no physical problem that is greater than Christ’s ability to heal. The really sad thing is that if the child had received the precious blood she might be have been physically healed. There are innumerable miralculous physical healings that have occured by receiving communion.
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