Church Says Girl's Communion Not Valid

[Catholic29]

I think deep down most Catholics, not hidebound Trad Catholic Pharissees, like many here seem to be, would wholeheartedly approve of what the Priest did for that little girl by substituting a rice wafer for a wheat wafer.

Hidebound Trad Catholic Pharisees? Well you can count myself, the Trenton Bishop, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger and Pope John Paul II among their number.

 

[flatliner]

jurist12:

I think deep down most Catholics, not hidebound Trad Catholic Pharissees, like many here seem to be, would wholeheartedly approve of what the Priest did for that little girl by substituting a rice wafer for a wheat wafer. Well did Jesus say of you “Ye strain at a gnat, yet swallow a Camel.” What gets me is that like many Protestants SOME Catholics dictate to God what He can or cannot do. Some here have brought out the idea that if exceptions are made in cases like this then the next step is using Kool-Aid and Doritos as Communion elements, I am not suggesting that, but only in medical cases such as this that wheat wafers be substituted by another type which contains no wheat. Bread flour can be made from different plants besides wheat, rice flour, potato flour, corn flour, etc. In Christ, jurist12

Um, the sacraments are important. Doing them properly is important. That is all anyone is saying. And the girl can receive the blood. I suppose even, she could recieve under intinction with a rice wafer, that might be okay. But the rice would not be the body of Christ. However, she would get both the body and blood from recieving from the chalice. What’s the problem?

 

[SATEX]

jurist12:

Well did Jesus say of you “Ye strain at a gnat, yet swallow a Camel.” What gets me is that like many Protestants SOME Catholics dictate to God what He can or cannot do. Some here have brought out the idea that if exceptions are made in cases like this then the next step is using Kool-Aid and Doritos as Communion elements. jurist12

You are right. knowing how people demand this and that, it would not be long before the Church would let non-christians have Bread and Wine at Mass, Let people avoid the sabbath for all reasons, read scripture and if it makes you feel good that is OK, It is OK to commit murder or steal for any reason and so on. The nature of people is they do not like to be told what they can and can not do, but they need that order. Christ said follow my word and commandments. People don’t like that so they try to find loop holes.

 

[RBushlow]

Mijoy2:

If in order to receive the body of Christ the girl needs to put her life in danger, and the church cannot find a way to accomodate her . . …

The Chruch did find a way, and the mother rejected it in order to fulfill some agenda; probably trying to find some way to sue the Church.

 

[ricatholic]

SATEX:

You are right. knowing how people demand this and that, it would not be long before the Church would let non-christians have Bread and Wine at Mass, Let people avoid the sabbath for all reasons, read scripture and if it makes you feel good that is OK, It is OK to commit murder or steal for any reason and so on. The nature of people is they do not like to be told what they can and can not do, but they need that order. Christ said follow my word and commandments. People don’t like that so they try to find loop holes.

If non chirstians received Jesus, would they be better off than they would without Him?

The practical aspect of the question is sort of ridiculous since priests don’t go handing out the Eucharist except in Church or to sick catholics, so if you get somebody in church why not give them the “good stuff”, Jesus Himself?

Don’t you think Jesus has the power to change somebody for the better? Or do you think He really isn’t all that God like.

On one hand we say Jesus is God and is all powerfull and then we say we have to protect Him and if the church gives Him to the wrong person bad stuff happens.

Do you realize how little confidence that shows in Jesus?

Is our God so weak He gets hurt when somebody “unworthy” gets a host put in their hands? Is He is so full of revenge that He actually hurts those that receive “unworthily”.

I think He is a little bigger and stronger than we give Him credit for, and His teachings are a lot more about mercy than a God hurting somebody more for being unworthy.

But then again, I think Jesus is rooting for all of us to be closer to Him.

Peace

 

[jurist12]

RBushlow:

The Chruch did find a way, and the mother rejected it in order to fulfill some agenda; probably trying to find some way to sue the Church./QUOTE

Why must there be some ulterior “Church bashing” “agenda” ascribed to the girl’s mother? I take it at face value that the mother simply wants her child to receive full communion of both the bread and wine like anyone else. That is the only “agenda” I see here. It is things like this that keeps me away from returning to the Catholic Church from Evangelical Protestantism. Just when I am ready to commit to returning something like this happens. In Christ, jurist12.

 

[Riley259]

ricatholic:

If non chirstians received Jesus, would they be better off than they would without Him?

The practical aspect of the question is sort of ridiculous since priests don’t go handing out the Eucharist except in Church or to sick catholics, so if you get somebody in church why not give them the “good stuff”, Jesus Himself?

Don’t you think Jesus has the power to change somebody for the better? Or do you think He really isn’t all that God like.

On one hand we say Jesus is God and is all powerfull and then we say we have to protect Him and if the church gives Him to the wrong person bad stuff happens.

Do you realize how little confidence that shows in Jesus?

Is our God so weak He gets hurt when somebody “unworthy” gets a host put in their hands? Is He is so full of revenge that He actually hurts those that receive “unworthily”.

I think He is a little bigger and stronger than we give Him credit for, and His teachings are a lot more about mercy than a God hurting somebody more for being unworthy.

But then again, I think Jesus is rooting for all of us to be closer to Him.

Peace

You seem to be missing the point of why non-Christians or even non-Catholics cannot receive the Eucharist. The fact that they are non-Catholic or non-Christian means that they don’t really believe that the Eucharist is the body, blood, soul, and divinity of our Lord. They think it’s a symbol or worse, a mere ritual devoid of any real meaning except as a chance to “commune” with one another. Has anyone asked the mother whether she truly believes that the Eucharist is the Real Presence? I suspect she’d have to think about that one for awhile.

 

[KennySe]

jurist12:

I think deep down most Catholics, not hidebound Trad Catholic Pharissees, like many here seem to be, would wholeheartedly approve of what the Priest did for that little girl by substituting a rice wafer for a wheat wafer.

The kind of Pharisees like Joseph of Arimethea and Nicodemus.

The Traditional Catholics as in Apostolic tradition.

Gimme that old time Catholicism, the one that is 2000 years old and stands firmly with Christ and his Apostles.

I bet you hated the movie “The Passion of The Christ” especially when as the cross was being raised, the image cut to the last Supper as Jesus was raising His Body in the form of bread.

 

[DuMaurier]

jurist12:

RBushlow:

The Chruch did find a way, and the mother rejected it in order to fulfill some agenda; probably trying to find some way to sue the Church.

Haven’t you been reading here? Taking the wine alone does constitute a FULL communion. I can’t remember the last time I was offered the Precious Blood at mass but I won’ demand the Church make an exception for me. Even if she could take a rice cake instead she still wouldn’t be receiving the bread “just like everyone else” because everyone else would have wheat bread. It’s a fallacy. Everyone wants the Church to come to them and not the other way around.

If this mother did not have a political agenda then she would not have gone to the media first. She didn’t even wait to get a response for her petition from the Vatican.

 

[Betty]

Mjohn1453:

Though it could be the points you listed above. I think a more likely reason is satan trying to destroy reverence for the Blessed Sacrament. Why else would it be in the news?

This young girl could receive just a tiny piece of the Host and would receive a valid Holy Communion. I think the mother has another agenda for making such an issue out of this.

 

[hydrochief]

Faithful 2 Rome:

and while we’re changing doctrine, lets change those stupid rules on priests finally being allowed to marry, women being priests…etc…

Bad Catechisis, Rejection of Church Doctrine or Political Agenda… only…I would knock it down to TWO reasons…assuming…rightly so…that Church Officials HAVE THOUROUGHLY explained the REASONS WHY…which now means the woman has had a crash course on Catechisis…but STILL persists in arguing instead of being OBEDIENT (which by the way…STILL allows her daughter to recieve the Sacred Blood) I can only come to the conclusion she is now pursuing,

1. Rejection of Church Doctine. or 2. Political Agenda

Faulty Catechesis may still be a reason, especially with regard to the Priest who obliged her. I have had a couple very strong Catechetical Priests, and most recently one who was very poor. He would say what he had to say only once, and wouldn’t explain anything to anyone.

But I agree in wondering why she just doesn’t take the Blood. Christ is present completely in either form. And I don’t see how just a touch on the tongue could make her ill. Then the mother could still persue her case…

It seems to me the child is being kept from Christ in yet another effort to change the Faith to something more ‘modern’ through ‘public opinion’; trouble is, the public opinion are more likely those who are railing against the Church in the first place.

 

[jimmy]

fix:

I call them as I see them. The girl can receive the Precious Blood, yet the mother insists that the Church comply with her wishes. Either there is faulty catechesis, rejection of Church doctrine, or a political agenda.

This is a good point. The girl can recieve only the blood and it will be just as effective because the Catholic church recognizes that Christ is present in all of the Eucharist entirely.

 

[jimmy]

ricatholic:

If non chirstians received Jesus, would they be better off than they would without Him?

The practical aspect of the question is sort of ridiculous since priests don’t go handing out the Eucharist except in Church or to sick catholics, so if you get somebody in church why not give them the “good stuff”, Jesus Himself?

Don’t you think Jesus has the power to change somebody for the better? Or do you think He really isn’t all that God like.

On one hand we say Jesus is God and is all powerfull and then we say we have to protect Him and if the church gives Him to the wrong person bad stuff happens.

Do you realize how little confidence that shows in Jesus?

Is our God so weak He gets hurt when somebody “unworthy” gets a host put in their hands? Is He is so full of revenge that He actually hurts those that receive “unworthily”.

I think He is a little bigger and stronger than we give Him credit for, and His teachings are a lot more about mercy than a God hurting somebody more for being unworthy.

But then again, I think Jesus is rooting for all of us to be closer to Him.

Peace

Ric, you misunderstand quite a bit of church teaching with this post. We do not have to protect Jesus from the people, people can do nothing to hurt Jesus. We do not have to protect people from God either. We have to protect them from themselves. As Paul writes in 1Corinthians, when you drink the cup of the Lord unworthily you drink judgement upon yourself.

26 For as often as you shall eat this bread, and drink the chalice, you shall shew the death of the Lord, until he come. 27 Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of the chalice. 29 **For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord. **30 Therefore are there many inform and weak among you, and many sleep. 1Cor11

When you eat the body of Christ, you proclaim the teachings of the church. Therefore they can not just hand out the communion to everyone who walks into the church. You must be in Gods grace in order to recieve the body and blood of Christ.

 

[hydrochief]

jurist12:

Instead of criticising the girls’s mother of “ulterior” motives or the press for “Catholic bashing” why not use your hearts and minds to find a solution to this issue. Some here said that the little girl can still receive all of the benefits of the Eucharist by only drinking the wine, that sounds all well and good, but since the girl is a minor what if her mother does not want her to drink wine? I admit that I know very little about celiac disease but from what I have heard about it through this story even consuming even the smallest amount of wheat can cause serious problems. The question to ask is “What would Jesus say and do in this situation” not some bureaucracy in Rome that is more concerned with man made rules. It seems that this is exactly the kind of “human tradition” that Jesus in no uncertain terms condemned. In Christ, jurist12

The girl can receive ~ and not fom mere wine. When the Priest does the Consecration, the bread and wine become the REAL Body and Blood of Christ Himself. So I disagree with the notion that the mother doesn’t want her child to drink wine, because every Catholic knows that the Transubstantiation is a fact given us by Christ Himself. So asking “what would Christ do” should instead be a statement to the above; which is His Tradition given to us humans at the Last Supper… Some ‘solution’ huh?

 

[twf]

This is off topic, but Faithful to Rome, you said:
and while we’re changing doctrine, lets change those stupid rules on priests finally being allowed to marry, women being priests…etc…
Priestly celibacy is a disciplinary matter that the Pope could (but won’t) change at his fancy. Remember, our Eastern Rite priests are married (at least many of them are), and so are certain Anglican priest converts. The ordination of women, on the other hand, is a doctrinal matter.

 

[Fidelis]

I think deep down most Catholics, not hidebound Trad Catholic Pharissees, like many here seem to be, would wholeheartedly approve of what the Priest did for that little girl by substituting a rice wafer for a wheat wafer.

Since something like 70% of all Catholics in the US erroneously don’t believe that the Eucharist is the real Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ as the Church has always taught it, I wouldn’t be surprised if you were right about this. The level of ignorance in the pews about Catholic doctrine and the Catholic concepts of orthodoxy, orthopraxy, authority and obedience is appalling, as some of the posts on this thread testify to.

There’s a good reason why the Church is not a democracy. If it was, the Church would be the world’s largest cafeteria or Burger King, wih everyone demanding things “their way.”

 

[jurist12]

This whole thing is a tempest in a teapot. Bread is Bread whether it is made of wheat flour or rice flour. Just because many feel that it makes no difference whether or not the Communion Host is made of wheat or rice flour does not mean that the next step is Kool-Aid and Twinkies as Communion elements. The fact that wheat flour is used in bread at Communion is a fact of common usage, IE the cultures that use wheat flour in bread is an accident of nature. Those places where wheat is used happen to be areas where wheat is grown in abundance as a staple in the daily diet. If Jesus had been in the American Southwest it would have been bread made with Corn flour. I don’t think Jesus cares whether the bread is made of wheat or rice or corn flour. Scripture says bread is used and as long as it is bread regardless of what kind of flour is used I see no difference as to what type of flour it should be made of. In Christ, jurist12

 

[Newman60]

jurist12:

This whole thing is a tempest in a teapot. Bread is Bread whether it is made of wheat flour or rice flour. Just because many feel that it makes no difference whether or not the Communion Host is made of wheat or rice flour does not mean that the next step is Kool-Aid and Twinkies as Communion elements. The fact that wheat flour is used in bread at Communion is a fact of common usage, IE the cultures that use wheat flour in bread is an accident of nature. Those places where wheat is used happen to be areas where wheat is grown in abundance as a staple in the daily diet. If Jesus had been in the American Southwest it would have been bread made with Corn flour. I don’t think Jesus cares whether the bread is made of wheat or rice or corn flour. Scripture says bread is used and as long as it is bread regardless of what kind of flour is used I see no difference as to what type of flour it should be made of. In Christ, jurist12

jurist12, an earlier responder is correct. You are either not understanding the Catholic Eucharist, not paying attention or, like the girl’s mother, refusing to see the obvious solution. Haley Waldman, the 8 yr old girl, may receive the Holy Eucharist in either specie and it will be COMPLETE. Therefore if she receives Communion by drinking a sip of consecrated wine (which of course is no longer wine but the Body and Blood of Christ), she will have received as completely as anyone else. There should not be any controversy. Who knows what the mother’s motive is in being obstinate.
Newman60

 

[jimmy]

Fidelis:

Since something like 70% of all Catholics in the US erroneously don’t believe that the Eucharist is the real Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ as the Church has always taught it, I wouldn’t be surprised if you were right about this. The level of ignorance in the pews about Catholic doctrine and the Catholic concepts of orthodoxy, orthopraxy, authority and obedience is appalling, as some of the posts on this thread testify to.

There’s a good reason why the Church is not a democracy. If it was, the Church would be the world’s largest cafeteria or Burger King, wih everyone demanding things “their way.”

Not only that, but only about 25 to 30 percent of Catholics go to church on sundays.

 

[Dawn]

jurist12, you said, “just when I am ready to commit to returning something like this happens”…

Don’t let controversies keep you from coming home and receiving Jesus in Holy Communion! It does get frustrating seeing all the bad media that comes out against our Faith. Tell Jesus about your issues, then just step out in faith and obedience. Jesus didn’t say it would be easy to follow Him. Don’t let that “other guy” keep you away!
In Him
Dawn