Church Says Girl's Communion Not Valid

[fix]

ricatholic:

Do you think Jesus instituted the Eucharist as a ritual?

It is a sacrament.

That is the problem here, Jesus was very pragmatic, He was a man of action and results. He left the methods of actually achieving the results to us.

He left the Church to decide these things. That is what distinguishes us from the heresy of protestantism

For the church to even conceive of these alternatives shows that they spend way too much time on the trivial and not enough on the real.

Life is complex. Look around.

The deep point is not that the church won’t give her Jesus, it is that the church took Jesus away from her by declaring her first communion invalid. That is sick.

Rubbish. The Church is custodian. She has no authority to change what cannot be changed. Your argument is with Christ.

I’m positive that Jesus would find a person sharing a piece of fruit with a homeless person more evidence of Him being there than in the some hosts some people have received minutes before they cut off their neighbor in the church parking lot.

You want to set up straw men and knock them down.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

(BTW, I realize that makes me a heretic, but catholics can do, and have done, much worse than become heretics).

BTW, once you become a heretic you cease to be a catholic.

ricatholic:

The deep point is not that the church won’t give her Jesus, it is that the church took Jesus away from her by declaring her first communion invalid. That is sick.

Wrong, she did not recieve Jesus at her first Eucharist as the matter used was invalid, it never became the Body and Blood. The Church has not refused to give her the Eucharist, it is the mother that refuses to allow her to have the Chalice.

What is sick is people thinking they are the authority in matters such as this.

I know this is unpopular in our society today, but the Church is the Authroity and we are to be obeident.

 

[Godefridus]

Just a quick point–

Formal (knowledgable) heresy is indeed grave sin, and for one to cling to such would be living in grave sin, making him or her inelligible to receive Communion until they recanted, went to Confession, and resolved to firm faith (perhaps renewing their Baptismal vows). But this such is not the same as excommunication, for which the person would have to receive absolution from the Bishop himself.

What ricatholic has said is evidence that she does not believe in the Real Presence of Christ, Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity in the Eucharist. For that reason alone, ricatholic should have a serious examination of conscience before receiving Communion again him/herself.

Consuming the Body and Blood of Christ under the pall of mortal sin is not a frivolous thing.

 

[Fast_ed75]

y2daddy:

Or number 4- the rule is just stupid. Instead of adhering to minute points of the law the leaders of the Church should realize that a little humility and mercy could go a long way towards restoring the damaged reputation of the Church in this country.

I totally agree- Why can’t the girl just have her rice cake- it is not fair! After all communion is supposed to be a meal anyway.

http://www.sinosplice.com/china/junkfood/10-ricecake.jpg
http://www.bighouse.org/images/kelloggsricekrispiestreatsoriginal.jpg

 

[GoodME]

I dissected this article for others on another site.

There is an agenda at work in the article - I couldn’t pin down if it was the mother or the director of the foundation mentioned who was fronting it. The reporter had a hand in it, as well. Editors are supposed to catch these kind of manipulations - but sometimes they get caught playing solitaire on their computers, instead of doing their jobs.

I find it hard to believe that any Priest would suggest a “substitue” host. Every Priest I know of knows better than this.

The fact that the language of the article mentions “a Priest” and not “Father So_and_So of the ___ Parish in the +++++ Diocese” is very compelling.

Sometimes those with an axe to grind against the Church work in secular jobs where they may forward their cause. Shame on the editors of CNN for not insisting on confirmation of the “Priest” I mentioned above before printing the article.

It was an editorial blunder of the highest magnitude from a normally somewhat-respectable source for the news, not usually given to “urban legend” or “mythology” being passed as “news”.

 

[ricatholic]

Fast_ed75:

I totally agree- Why can’t the girl just have her rice cake- it is not fair! After all communion is supposed to be a meal anyway.

http://www.sinosplice.com/china/junkfood/10-ricecake.jpg
bighouse.org

You might be on to something. Perhaps Jesus was really telling the apostles that everytime two get together to break bread we should be doing it in memory of Him. What better device to get people to be thinking of the path everyday.

Or we can say it was some special sacrement reserved only for those that have met the requirements of having their authority passed down through apostloic authority and that all raw materials used in the production of the sacrement must meet the standards as codified by those that didn’t realize the earth was not flat.

Peace

 

[fix]

ricatholic:

You might be on to something. Perhaps Jesus was really telling the apostles that everytime two get together to break bread we should be doing it in memory of Him. What better device to get people to be thinking of the path everyday.

Or we can say it was some special sacrement reserved only for those that have met the requirements of having their authority passed down through apostloic authority and that all raw materials used in the production of the sacrement must meet the standards as codified by those that didn’t realize the earth was not flat.

Peace

See, RIC, you are a sola scriptura guy. You worship the bible. Catholics worship Christ. He founded a Church, not a book. Nice try, but you are pushing nothing new.

 

[darcee]

The most interesting thing to me about this case is how it breaks out to those who believe in transubstantiation and support the church from those who don’t and think people have the right to change the way the church does things to suit themselves.

The girl had the option of taking the cup alone or having a low-gluten host. If the second didn’t work the first was an option. The mother didn’t like this so she found a priest who would break the rules for her… now it is the Church who is wrong?

-D

 

[fix]

darcee:

The most interesting thing to me about this case is how it breaks out to those who believe in transubstantiation and support the church from those who don’t and think people have the right to change the way the church does things to suit themselves.

The girl had the option of taking the cup alone or having a low-gluten host. If the second didn’t work the first was an option. The mother didn’t like this so she found a priest who would break the rules for her… now it is the Church who is wrong?

-D

Exactly. We can see the division between orthodox and heterodox clearly in this piece. It goes back to those who will serve and those who say they will not serve.

 

[jeffreedy789]

couple things - one, can anyone tell me what muslum is, and how it is used as a substitute for wine?

two - i’d like to point out, to all of you (esp rica), that when Jesus talked about the Eucharist in John 6, many, if not MOST, of His followers turned away from Him, saying ‘this is a hard saying. who can follow it?’

Jesus asked His disciples ‘are you, too, going to leave me?’

and they said ‘to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.’

Jesus didn’t water down His message (particularly about the Eucharist) to keep His followers happy. He asked hard things, He asks us to obey our authorities, to live in humility and submission to the Church He instituted.

it’s easy to say ‘Jesus would do so and so’. how do you know what He would do? He left us the Church, to tell us what He is doing…

no one in the catholic church wants to prevent this girl from receiving the body and blood of Jesus. neither do we want to change what the church teaches very clearly about the ‘matter’ used in the Eucharist. putting our brains together, i’m sure we can find a solution, as long as we are really trying to find a solution, and not just trying to find another reason to attack the church.

 

[dominosNbiscuts]

y2daddy:

Or number 4- the rule is just stupid. Instead of adhering to minute points of the law the leaders of the Church should realize that a little humility and mercy could go a long way towards restoring the damaged reputation of the Church in this country.

Oh good grief Y2, now you’re starting to sound like Fr. John Corapi talking about the church’s response to ‘the Boston’ problem! Humility is the LAST thing we want to express on these boards. The goal here is to out “law” the Pharisees! If we don’t have a bunch of rules and regs, we might as well be protestants!

By the way, in as much as the bread an wine have already been transubstantiated into the body and precious blood of our Lord, how could it possibly make a difference what they were prior to transubstantiation? Don’t pita bread and ouzo transubstantiate?

 

[uncleauberon]

Hi all,

jurist12 - You are not going to like this response, but here goes.

jurist12:

It seems that not only does the child suffer from Celiac disease but also has allergies to any fermented drink because of the yeast produced as a by product of fermentation. Even low alcohol wine would set off her allergies, even in very small quantities. The mother also stated that even if her daughter could drink wine she would not allow it, even low alcohol wine as she thinks it is inappropriate to allow even communion wine to be given to children. As a parent of an underage child that is her perogative. , jurist12

We can read the Letter that Elizabeth Pelly-Waldman sent to the Cardinal.

csaceliacs.org/LettertoVatican.php

here is a clip​

… The use of Mustum is not an option for Haley because as a parent, I believe no amount of alcohol is appropriate for a child. The Catholic Church maintains the Mustum must contain some alcohol for it to be the valid blood of Christ.
…
I think the will of God, or the divine law, conflicts with this Canon Law. I do not believe Christ would want a child to obey a canon law that could be potentially harmful to her. …​

Here she mentions no Allergy to wine.

And she admits that it is She that is keeping her daughter from receiving the Wine – not the Church.

By what standard does she invalidate the use of Sacramental Wine ?

When her Daughter is “of age” then her Daughter may make the choice to receive the Cup.
Until then she must wait for First Communion.

None of us deserves Communion.

We, who have validly received our “first”, are only obligated to receive it Once a Year.

Another poster, Lourdes
Has admitted that she and her family have tried many ways variations and alternatives, all Vaild.
Even her autistic brother with severe problems has had his “First Communion”

I do not wish to make light of this situation - ** it is an unfortunately grave matter that one may need to bear this cross and suffer for the sacrament.**

( Yes, it is easy for me to say that )

I admire those with this disease that desire the Eucharist and pray that they may be healed.

Many people throughout Christian history have suffered to get even the slightest morsel or drop of Christ even one time in their mouth.

They didn’t ask the church to change the sacraments to fit their needs.

God Bless

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Are you asking that question SERIOUSLY, dominos?
Pita bread IS unleavened wheat bread. Ouzo is a Greek RESIN wine, not made only of grapes. So I’d say, pita most probably would (unless it’s that icky pseudo-pita made with additives ranging from basil to tomato to peppers), depending on the decision of the bishop (who would, of course, consult canon law on what does and does not constitute “valid matter”), and ouzo most probably would NOT.

I find your use of “we” spurious, as the rest of your post, in tacitly accusing Catholics of being Pharisitical, and rule bound (in opposition to the obviously UNPharisitical, unrule bound Protestants), along with your nebulous grasp of “transubstantiation” leads one to the conclusion that you are, in fact, if not Protestant by birth or credal affiliation, certainly Protestant by inclination–IMO, of course.

 

[fix]

dominosNbiscuts:

Oh good grief Y2, now you’re starting to sound like Fr. John Corapi talking about the church’s response to ‘the Boston’ problem! Humility is the LAST thing we want to express on these boards. The goal here is to out “law” the Pharisees! If we don’t have a bunch of rules and regs, we might as well be protestants!

By the way, in as much as the bread an wine have already been transubstantiated into the body and precious blood of our Lord, how could it possibly make a difference what they were prior to transubstantiation? Don’t pita bread and ouzo transubstantiate?

Christ said to follow the pharisees’s directives and do exactly as they tell you, but do not do as they do. The pharisees had the authority, but were hypocrites. Christ never denied they had the proper authority. Today the Church is the authority and we are to obey.

 

[fix]

jeffreedy789:

couple things - one, can anyone tell me what muslum is, and how it is used as a substitute for wine?

two - i’d like to point out, to all of you (esp rica), that when Jesus talked about the Eucharist in John 6, many, if not MOST, of His followers turned away from Him, saying ‘this is a hard saying. who can follow it?’

Jesus asked His disciples ‘are you, too, going to leave me?’

and they said ‘to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.’

Jesus didn’t water down His message (particularly about the Eucharist) to keep His followers happy. He asked hard things, He asks us to obey our authorities, to live in humility and submission to the Church He instituted.

it’s easy to say ‘Jesus would do so and so’. how do you know what He would do? He left us the Church, to tell us what He is doing…

no one in the catholic church wants to prevent this girl from receiving the body and blood of Jesus. neither do we want to change what the church teaches very clearly about the ‘matter’ used in the Eucharist. putting our brains together, i’m sure we can find a solution, as long as we are really trying to find a solution, and not just trying to find another reason to attack the church.

A solution was found and rejected by the obstinate mother. Take a tiny drop of the Precious Blood. The mother is the true legalist in this story.

 

[Therese_Martin]

**Notice:

This thread is now closed. Thanks to all who participated in the discussion.**