Church teaching on Islam

[rinnie]

You are referring back to a time when Jesus was not revealed as the fulfillment of the Prophecies. Of course, before the time of Christ, Abraham was the ‘Father of Faith’. Jesus said that children of Abraham could be raised up from the very stones. This is not hard for God. However, Jesus is the NEW COVENANT between God and His Chosen People - Jesus is the True Vine and we are the grafted on branches. To say that anyone can still be saved without Jesus is to call Jesus a liar!

For the sake of our souls, I think we should be EXTREMELY careful not to do that.

Who in the world ever said that he wasn’t the true vine. What are you talking about?

 

[rinnie]

I answered. Your analogy is horrible. You’ll have to do much better. Keep trying.

Why because you cannot answer the question. Why? Because if you do you will see that you cannot agree with your own teaching’s.

You have made every single excuse. But refuse to answer a simple question. Why?

 

[BenedictFTW]

Who in the world ever said that he wasn’t the true vine. What are you talking about?

Well, actually, I could ask you the same.

I was replying to your oblique statement:

“Where is it taught that if you reject Christ in the Trinity the God of Abraham is a false god.”

which seemed to imply that those who believed in the God of Abraham believed in a false God, but those who believed in Christ had to reject the God of Abraham.

Yours was a very unclear statement

I should have been charming like you and asked you “What are you talking about?”

 

[rinnie]

I believe Protestants who reject the Eucharist and create strange doctrines have created a Jesus of their own fashioning and need to be converted to the One True Church, outside of which there is no salvation.
I believe Jews who reject Logos altogether and follow the Talmud (false doctrine) do not know the Father and need to be converted and baptized.
I believe Muslims follow a false god fabricated in a false book and need to be converted and baptized.
I believe, as the Fathers taught, that those in sin are in bondage to the devil.
And Jesus died on the cross to conquer sin and gave us the means to be free.
Sorry, I’m not going to be politically correct for the sake of not hurting someone’s feelings.
This is the last I will say of this.

Good bye

You just said Muslims follow a false god.

 

[rinnie]

Of course God is the God of Muslims. Whether they choose to accept Him and worship in spirit and truth is a whole other matter. He is not the God of Islam.

Now you are saying of Course God is the God of Muslims

 

[jam070406]

Why because you cannot answer the question. Why? Because if you do you will see that you cannot agree with your own teaching’s.

You have made every single excuse. But refuse to answer a simple question. Why?

I answered it. Sorry you don’t like the answer.

 

[rinnie]

It really is amazingly frustrating and tiring that we can go round and round, you can have it explained to you countless times, and you still come back with the same false premise.

Now you accuse me of the same false premise.

 

[jam070406]

Now you are saying of Course God is the God of Muslims

Yes. But they don’t worship Him. Their worship is directed elsewhere by Islam.
If they worshipped Him they would be Christians.

 

[jam070406]

Now you accuse me of the same false premise.

You get tripped up on Abraham. Many have corrected your error. But you refuse correction. It is why you keep spinning in circles.

 

[rinnie]

Well, actually, I could ask you the same.

I was replying to your oblique statement:

“Where is it taught that if you reject Christ in the Trinity the God of Abraham is a false god.”

which seemed to imply that those who believed in the God of Abraham believed in a false God, but those who believed in Christ had to reject the God of Abraham.

Yours was a very unclear statement

I could have been charming like you and asked you “What are you talking about?”

Tell you what. Instead of me trying to explain everything again. Go back, read the whole thread. It is then I promise what I am saying will become clear to you.

 

[BenedictFTW]

Tell you what. Instead of me trying to explain everything again. Go back, read the whole thread. It is then I promise what I am saying will become clear to you.

I did. I am still puzzled. I did try to help, though.

 

[rinnie]

Aha! IT DOESN’T. Now you seem to be getting it! They are following false teaching. A false god.

Here she is saying that because they follow a false teaching they are following a false god.

This is what the argument continues to be about.

A false teaching does not mean you are praying to a false god.

 

[rinnie]

You are correct that it is questionable whether Muslims have the faith of Abraham, even though some on here INSIST like it’s divinely revealed Truth that they do.
It can be demonstrated from Scripture and Tradition that they DO NOT.

It can also be argued that when the Church claims that Muslims worship the one true God, it can be taken to mean that they THINK they do.

Just like Paul, and later Saints like St. John Chrysostom, says about those that thought they were offering worship to God, in fact, were offering worship to demons.
Further as Paul says, and the Church Teaches, that the Faith of Abraham comes to individuals in belief of Jesus Christ.

The Church teaches that Muslims indeed have the faith of Abraham and together with us adore the one true God.

She said it is demonstrated from scripture and Trad. that they do not. She has refused to prove the Church wrong.

Then she said the Church doesn’t claim this it can be taken they THINK they do.

The Church is clear in the teachings, and no amount of arguments will change the truth that is revealed to us in the CCC.

I stand by what I have said from the beginning. There are 3 Relgions that pray to the One true God, Christians, Muslims and Jews.

Rather we have conflict in our teachings has nothing to do with the truth we have. And it is we all have the One true God and pray to him.

 

[BenedictFTW]

Seems Muslims deny that they believe in Our God. They insist that ‘Allah’ is greater than the ‘Christian God’.

Yet, we must believe that they believe in the One True God, because our CCC infallibly says so!

Muslims just don’t know that they do.

 

[jam070406]

The Church teaches that Muslims indeed have the faith of Abraham and together with us adore the one true God.

She said it is demonstrated from scripture and Trad. that they do not. She has refused to prove the Church wrong.

Then she said the Church doesn’t claim this it can be taken they THINK they do.

The Church is clear in the teachings, and no amount of arguments will change the truth that is revealed to us in the CCC.

I stand by what I have said from the beginning. There are 3 Relgions that pray to the One true God, Christians, Muslims and Jews.

Rather we have conflict in our teachings has nothing to do with the truth we have. And it is we all have the One true God and pray to him.

Nope. The Church does not say they have the faith of Abraham. It says they believe they do.

 

[BenedictFTW]

St Paul to the Galatians: "I am amazed that you are so quickly forsaking the one who called you by (the) grace (of Christ) for a different gospel (not that there is another). But there are some who are disturbing you and wish to pervert the gospel of Christ.

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach (to you) a gospel other than the one that we preached to you, let that one be accursed!

As we have said before, and now I say again, if anyone preaches to you a gospel other than the one that you received, let that one be accursed!"

 

[BenedictFTW]

2 Corinthians 11-14

"And what I do I will continue to do, in order to end this pretext of those who seek a pretext for being regarded as we are in the mission of which they boast.

For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, who masquerade as apostles of Christ.

And no wonder, for even Satan masquerades as an angel of light."

 

[BenedictFTW]

1 John 4

"Beloved, do not trust every spirit but test the spirits to see whether they belong to God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

This is how you can know the Spirit of God: every spirit that acknowledges Jesus Christ came in the flesh belongs to God, and every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus does not belong to God. This is the spirit of the antichrist that, as you heard, is to come, but in fact is already in the world. "

We cannot say that we never knew. It is all in Holy Scripture. God grant us the Gift of Discernment.

 

[BenedictFTW]

Matthew 7: 15-20

"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit.

A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. So by their fruits you will know them."

Praise to You, Lord Jesus Christ

 

[rinnie]

Matthew 7: 15-20

"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit.

A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. So by their fruits you will know them."

Praise to You, Lord Jesus Christ

Exactly we are taught that many will come in the name of the One True God but will spread false truths.

And as the Church teaches and we agree the Muslim teachings are indeed false doctrines.

But as in Nostra Aetate, a true teaching of our faith shows us they do indeed adore the One true God, although they only accept Jesus as a Prophet.

Our Church teachings are quite clear in this teaching.