Church teachings around sexuality 'irrelevant to 75%'

[chaunceygardner]

I think the Church should care to an extent that it may want to revise what they preach and teach. If they aren’t teaching the fundamentalsof our Faith and explaining WHY we believe what we believe, this poll is the inevitable result of that inaction.

You inadvertently assigned the statement below, which is from Pepipop, to me. Don’t want to confuse anyone.

pepipop:

Why should the church care or take their opinions on board? The rulings/discplines/teachings of the church are decided by the ‘hierarchy’, who themselves were chosen by the Holy Spirit.

I think their decisions will be a lot more in line with what God wants for his church, than a group of cafeteria catholics.

 

[pepipop]

If you have symptoms that indicate a severe medical problem, would you just ignore them or find out the cause and treat it? If you find your car veering in one direction when you drive do you just compensate by turning the steering wheel in the opposite direction, or do you determine what the problem is and fix it? If you are in charge of a once vibrant organization and find that a great number of your members are not attending meetings, not participating in the programs, not paying their dues, not even paying attention to what the leaders of the organization are saying, but still consider themselves members, would you not want to know the extent of the problem and why it is happening?

I am not saying that the Church must change to fit the views of all those who have negative views, but the Church MUST ask itself what is going on and why, so you can do something about it. Its mission is not to weed out the marginal or the imperfect, but to bring them in to the faith. To me, that would follow the words and deeds of Jesus.

Our diocese is apparently emphasizing evangelization this year. Parishes are supposed to start a program. My first recommendation for our parish is to contact people who are no longer participating, including all the young people who have been catechized and confirmed but never return, and the adults who bring their children in for baptism and first communion and appear to be strangers the rest of time, and those who were participating parish members but left. Not to evangelize them, but to ask them WHY? Only then can the Church hope to do anything to get them back or to make them full participants again.

I would rather do that FIRST before trying to convert Baptists, Lutherans, and Methodists.

Yes, I agree the church has to find out ‘Why’ and it would seem to be due to poor catechising, teaching. That sounds wonderful, the way your parish is dealing with this issue.

 

[MotherAtHeart]

…I always hated having to be a part of the congregation saying “crucify him!”, but now I see it is true…we all say it when we sin.

When I realized this - that every time I sinned it was like I was picking up a hammer and nailing him to that cross myself - real change happened.

 

[chaunceygardner]

Yes, I agree the church has to find out ‘Why’ and it would seem to be due to poor catechising, teaching. That sounds wonderful, the way your parish is dealing with this issue.

I am thinking I didn’t state that real clearly. What I described is not what our parish is doing, it is what I suggest they do. I doubt that they will take that route.

 

[tm30]

I am not saying that the Church must change to fit the views of all those who have negative views, but the Church MUST ask itself what is going on and why, so you can do something about it. Its mission is not to weed out the marginal or the imperfect, but to bring them in to the faith. To me, that would follow the words and deeds of Jesus.

What’s going on is the wholesale abandonment of a Mother by Her children. The rejection of Church teaching by the faithful is symptomatic of a global “throwing off” of the yoke of Christ. Sadly, as Sr. Lucia was shown, we’re falling like snowflakes into hell, and it’s being led by apostacizing Catholics.

What we’re witnessing today from the USCCB, with regard to the HHS Mandate, is the reaction to a much-needed wake-up call. The mealy-mouthed timidity of the American Bishops-past has been replaced with a spirit of courage and sacrifice. This could be the US Bishops’ “Greatest Generation” before all is said and done.

In sum: For the shrinking number of believers, grace will be sufficient. For the growing numbers of apostates, the door to the ark is closing fast.

 

[pepipop]

I am thinking I didn’t state that real clearly. What I described is not what our parish is doing, it is what I suggest they do. I doubt that they will take that route.

Sorry, I didn’t read it correctly. You are totally correct and if this could form of program was implemented in each parish, worldwide - the problems within the church would be greatly reduced, if not eliminated.

 

[tm30]

Yes, I agree the church has to find out ‘Why’ and it would seem to be due to poor catechising, teaching. That sounds wonderful, the way your parish is dealing with this issue.

The reason why is simple:

John 3:19

[19] And this is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Whoever holds the floor will have the most influence; and we’ve lost the war of communication that is dominated by Hollywood, the Internet, news media, advertising, and our educational institutions. It’s not even close. We’re awash in evil, and the only thing the public wants to hear from the Church is, “We were wrong.”. This is a triage situation. Start with our families. Every one of us has a loved one who’s left the Church, I am sure. Most of us work with lapsed Catholics. If believing Catholics accept the radical challenge of Christ to pick up the cross and follow Him – to drag it all the way to Calvary and be crucified with Our Savior, then people will be saved…

 

[pepipop]

The reason why is simple:

John 3:19

Whoever holds the floor will have the most influence; and we’ve lost the war of communication that is dominated by Hollywood, the Internet, news media, advertising, and our educational institutions. It’s not even close. We’re awash in evil, and the only thing the public wants to hear from the Church is, “We were wrong.”. This is a triage situation. Start with our families. Every one of us has a loved one who’s left the Church, I am sure. Most of us work with lapsed Catholics. If believing Catholics accept the radical challenge of Christ to pick up the cross and follow Him – to drag it all the way to Calvary and be crucified with Our Savior, then people will be saved…

Yes, I was going to mention the media’s influence on lukewarm catholics on the issues they ‘feel’ should be changed, celibacy, woman priests, etc.

I have family members that are lapsed catholics - excuses being the vatican heirarchy and their handling of the sex abuse scandals, but they would probably have left anyway. The sex abuse scandals, unfortunately, gave a lot of lukewarm catholics ‘their perceived’ way-out clause of not believing in the true church.

 

[tm30]

Yes, I was going to mention the media’s influence on lukewarm catholics on the issues they ‘feel’ should be changed, celibacy, woman priests, etc.

I have family members that are lapsed catholics - excuses being the vatican heirarchy and their handling of the sex abuse scandals, but they would probably have left anyway. The sex abuse scandals, unfortunately, gave a lot of lukewarm catholics ‘their perceived’ way-out clause of not believing in the true church.

Absolutely agree. I’ve always believed the sex abuse sandals are a key catalyst to the Third Secret of Fatima and this great exodus from the faith. We’ve got two strikes on us before we even leave the on-deck circle, when it comes to evangelizing. Miracles will abound, but our work is truly cut out for us.

 

[Balian]

It shouldn’t surprise anyone. As Christ observed;

[13] Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat. [14] How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!

• Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible

 

[pepipop]

Absolutely agree. I’ve always believed the sex abuse sandals are a key catalyst to the Third Secret of Fatima and this great exodus from the faith. We’ve got two strikes on us before we even leave the on-deck circle, when it comes to evangelizing. Miracles will abound, but our work is truly cut out for us.

Interesting your point about the 3rd secret of Fatima. Yes, our work is cut out for us. One of my siblings is a real hard nut to crack. He believes the vatican et al, are evil and that the whole church is corrupt.

But i’ll still keep pluggin away - sadly he used to be a strongly committed catholic, previously.

 

[tm30]

Interesting your point about the 3rd secret of Fatima. Yes, our work is cut out for us. One of my siblings is a real hard nut to crack. He believes the vatican et al, are evil and that the whole church is corrupt.

But i’ll still keep pluggin away - sadly he used to be a strongly committed catholic, previously.

I’m sure it’s been especially difficult in Ireland. I will keep you and your family in my prayers, friend!

 

[tm30]

Interesting your point about the 3rd secret of Fatima. Yes, our work is cut out for us. One of my siblings is a real hard nut to crack. He believes the vatican et al, are evil and that the whole church is corrupt.

But i’ll still keep pluggin away - sadly he used to be a strongly committed catholic, previously.

And, by the way, I have a similar problem with my sister. She’s off in Unitarian-land and any hint of the topic is off-limits…

 

[pepipop]

And, by the way, I have a similar problem with my sister. She’s off in Unitarian-land and any hint of the topic is off-limits…

Thanks for the prayers and I’ll pray for you and your sister too. My brother actually emigrated to sunny California - i.e. Satan’s control centre for the world’s most infuential media!

 

[trials]

Apart from the fact that this research was done with a liberal agenda in mind, just look at those questions, when you analyse the stats, only one third of those interviewed were practising Catholics, as in, attend Mass weekly. And out of that third, how many of those would be Catholics that know their faith, love it and abide by it? Very few if my parish is anything to go by. So unsurprising then that a group interviewed about their faith and its practise, two-thirds of whom are only nominal Catholics, would come up with these answers. Unfortunately the media has not noticed this.

 

[saveusfromhell]

Yes, I was going to mention the media’s influence on lukewarm catholics on the issues they ‘feel’ should be changed, celibacy, woman priests, etc.
.

porn has had a massive influence too. i remeber a few studies coming out indicating porn habbits get more hardcore the more people use it, as we desensitise to the level of porn we watch.
the internet is an ideal aid for this, eventually we have reached the stage that extra and pre marital sex seems normal, orgies are not something that you need be ashamed off as most have either particapated in them, are at least watched them on the net.
Ted Bundy said porn was the catalyst that started him down his dark road.

 

[pepipop]

porn has had a massive influence too. i remeber a few studies coming out indicating porn habbits get more hardcore the more people use it, as they desensitise to level of porn they watch.
the internet is an ideal aid for this, eventually we have reached the stage that extra and pre marital sex seems normal, orgies are not something that you need be ashamed off as most have either particapated in them, are at least watched them on the net.
Ted Bundy said porn was the catalyst that started him down his dark road.

True, that and the ‘lurve culture’ or sex for all after the introduction of contraception in the '60’s.

 

[chaunceygardner]

Apart from the fact that this research was done with a liberal agenda in mind, just look at those questions, when you analyse the stats, only one third of those interviewed were practising Catholics, as in, attend Mass weekly. And out of that third, how many of those would be Catholics that know their faith, love it and abide by it? Very few if my parish is anything to go by. So unsurprising then that a group interviewed about their faith and its practise, two-thirds of whom are only nominal Catholics, would come up with these answers. Unfortunately the media has not noticed this.

Some of those two-thirds were once part of the one-third. In either group, some may know their faith and some may not. Catechesis beyond the adolescent years has been virtually non-existant in the Catholic church, and compares very poorly with our Protestant brethren.

Although the two-thirds may be only “nominal” Catholics, they are still mostly people who were baptized and raised in the Catholic faith. So to me the overpowering question is WHY? And the second question is: What should we do about it? Some here have suggested reasons. For those who have switched to a different faith it may be one group of reasons, for those who have just become moribund and non-practicing it may be another. That latter group are the ones the Church should be focusing on, the wayward sheep of the fold who have not yet drifted too far away. I find it odd that so many have just written them off and want to make no effort to re-ignite the spirit within them. I don’t understand how we can just forget about them when we know Jesus emphasized making every effort to return ONE lost sheep to the fold. Hmmm…maybe that’s part of the problem.

 

[saveusfromhell]

Some of those two-thirds were once part of the one-third. In either group, some may know their faith and some may not. Catechesis beyond the adolescent years has been virtually non-existant in the Catholic church, and compares very poorly with our Protestant brethren.

. I don’t understand how we can just forget about them when we know Jesus emphasized making every effort to return ONE lost sheep to the fold. Hmmm…maybe that’s part of the problem.

yes, I think you have a point, my perspective on it is and it’s only anecdotal, is when I talk to my fellow mass goers, the ones that have stayed,they seem to be pretty disillusioned, or swayed at least by the liberal agenda from the likes of the ACP or the media, be it papers, television radio or net.
the ones who do believe whole heartedly have become tired maybe disillusioned themselves, every time they speak up, the sex scandal re enters the debate, either a fresh scandal or rehash of old ones.
in my church I sometimes wonder how many believe, if the priest started asking people to leave if they did not accept a teaching listing them out 1 by one, how many would remain? I personally don’t think it would be a substantial number by any stretch of the imagination.

so when people say let’s start again maybe it’s because some feel that it’s easier to start small everyone same hymn sheet and go out from there, rather than just a case of wanting to abandon people to their destiny.
most of my own family neighbours friends don’t believe to various degrees. I often hand out green scapulars and pray for them. I don’t know what else to do. my arguments seem to have swayed none:shrug:

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

I find this very believable. The numbers seem to go along with what I would expect if I were to a take a poll of all family/friends and accomplises on the saem matters.

The church should be a democracy. That way, as time progresses the church could progress with the times. In a relatively short time the church could progress like much of the world where pretty much anything goes. We could elevate the doctrines of many of our modern day heros such as Lady GaGa, Opera Winfrey, Bill Maher and others to Magesteriumm status and all would FINALLY be well with the world.

Either that or we could put our faith in the 2000 year old Church Christ started and promised would be guided by the Holy Spirit and that Satan would not prevail. The later has become the minority. Does not mean the former has become correct?

Either that or we could put our faith in the 2000 year old Church Christ started and promised would be guided by the Holy Spirit and that Satan would not prevail.