Cindy Sheehan

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gilliam:
I pray for all the Gold Star families, as I hope you do. And, no, I don’t think this is a midguided government but I do pray for it.

I have seen a lot of governments come and go, and this one is one of the best so far (that isn’t saying much though). 😉
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I agree.

And all of us-- liberal or conservative, republican or democrat or other, rich or poor, pro-iraqi liberation or anti-iraqi war, etc.-- should pray for God’s will, and not our own, then we will all be in sync. 🙂
 
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BLB_Oregon:
The drama of burying a child that you have known within you is not a false drama, whether the child is short of birth or eighty years old. I think that if your mother really did lose you, you would look down on her from Heaven in all compassion. We cannot possibly imagine what she is going through.

She deserves to be heard and she deserves to be listened to. Mothers whose children serve our country don’t have a right to dictate our politics any more than they deserve to dictate their children’s lives, but they deserve to have their words heard, no matter whose political boat gets rocked. That is the least we can do.

Mr. Bush, I would like to think, imagined that he would have this to face. He must have. And no smart cracks about imagining that the Iraqis would be greeting us… the wails of bereaved mothers have been the reality of war, since the days before we had speech. It may have been one of the things that allowed us to survive. It is one of the many reasons that few if any ever leave the Oval Office looking younger. Whether Mr. Bush chooses to meet with her or not, it is his lot as Commander-in-Chief to rise and to face this. I would let those in the military decide if his response has been appropriate. I know I’m a voter, but this is something that is too deep for me to judge him on, let alone presume to judge her.
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President Bush has already met with her last year. I saw her being interviewed on Keith Oberman show Thursday evening, I happened to come across it. She told Oberman that if President Bush actually did meet with her then, that it would ruin the momentum! While I sympathize with her as a Mother and how devastating it would be to lose a child, this comment gave me pause as to just what is she really trying to accomplish here? She says she wants to speak to the President, but it might ruin her agenda? She also stated that she no longer speaks to her in-laws(her sons’s grandparents) as they voted for Pres. Bush. and he killed her son! She has a right to protest and to her opinions but I see before us a woman who clearly needs to have some therapy and who is now totally surrounded by these far-left groups who are more than willing to use her and her situation to further their own agendas. That’s my :twocents: worth.
 
More military families who lost loved ones in this unust war of imperialism are heading out in support of Cindy! GO CINDY! God Bless you and your movement!

May many rosaries be said to show the truth of this president and his unjust war and opening peoples eyes…and according to the polls that show people are losing faith in this crazy man representing our country…the PRAYERS ARE WORKING!!! 🙂

A-MEN! 👍
 
Robert Bay:
An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of the person making the claim, their circumstances, or their actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). These are considered personal attacks and are against the forum guidelines.
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Isn’t this entire thread an Ad Hominem attack against Cindy Sheehan?
 
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ShroudMan:
More military families who lost loved ones in this unust war of imperialism
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Deliberate error of fact, Shroud. In none debating terms that’s AKA a lie.
are heading out in support of Cindy! GO CINDY! God Bless you and your movement!
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May many rosaries be said to show the truth of this president and his unjust war and opening peoples eyes…and according to the polls that show people are losing faith in this crazy man representing our country…the PRAYERS ARE WORKING!!! 🙂
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A-MEN! 👍
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So you’re praying that our troops succeed in their missions in such a swift, overwhelming fashion that they get to come home sooner? Or are you praying things get worse in Iraq in hopes bad PR brings them home instead?
 
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gilliam:
From an Iraqi:

A message to Cindy Sheehan

I realize how tragic your loss is and I know how much pain there is crushing your heart and I know the darkness that suddenly came to wrap your life and wipe away your dreams and I do feel the heat of your tears that won’t dry until you find the answers to your question; why you lost your loved one?

I have heard your story and I understand that you have the full right to ask people to stand by your side and support your cause. At the beginning I told myself, this is yet another woman who lost a piece of her heart and the questions of war, peace and why are killing her everyday. To be frank to you the first thing I thought of was like "why should I listen or care to answer when there are thousands of other women in America, Iraq and Afghanistan who lost a son or a husband or a brother…”

But today I was looking at your picture and I saw in your eyes a persistence, a great pain and a torturing question; why?

I know how you feel Cindy, I lived among the same pains for 35 years but worse than that was the fear from losing our loved ones at any moment. Even while I’m writing these words to you there are feelings of fear, stress, and sadness that interrupt our lives all the time but in spite of all that I’m sticking hard to hope which if I didn’t have I would have died years ago.

Ma’am, we asked for your nation’s help and we asked you to stand with us in our war and your nation’s act was (and still is) an act of ultimate courage and unmatched sense of humanity.
Our request is justified, death was our daily bread and a million Iraqi mothers were expecting death to knock on their doors at any second to claim someone from their families.
Your face doesn’t look strange to me at all; I see it everyday on endless numbers of Iraqi women who were struck by losses like yours.

Our fellow country men and women were buried alive, cut to pieces and thrown in acid pools and some were fed to the wild dogs while those who were lucky enough ran away to live like strangers and the Iraqi mother was left to grieve one son buried in an unfound grave and another one living far away who she might not get to see again.

We did nothing to deserve all that suffering, well except for a dream we had; a dream of living like normal people do.

We cried out of joy the day your son and his comrades freed us from the hands of the devil and we went to the streets not believing that the nightmare is over.
We practiced our freedom first by kicking and burning the statues and portraits of the hateful idol who stole 35 years from the life of a nation.
For the first time air smelled that beautiful, that was the smell of freedom.

…

You are free to go and leave us alone but what am I going to tell your million sisters in Iraq? Should I ask them to leave Iraq too? Should I leave too? And what about the eight millions who walked through bombs to practice their freedom and vote? Should they leave this land too?
Is it a cursed land that no one should live in? Why is it that we were chosen to live in all this pain, why me, why my people, why you?

But I am not leaving this land because the bad guys are not going to leave us or you to live in peace. They are the same ones who flew the planes to kill your people in New York.
I ask you in the name of God or whatever you believe in; do not waste your son’s blood.
We here have decided to avenge humanity, you and all the women who lost their loved ones.
Take a look at our enemy Cindy, look closely at the hooded man holding the sword and if you think he’s right then I will back off and support your call.

We live in pain and grief everyday, every hour, every minute; all the horrors of the powers of darkness have been directed at us and I don’t know exactly when am I going to feel safe again, maybe in a year, maybe two or even ten; I frankly don’t know but I don’t want to lose hope and faith.

We are in need for every hand that can offer some help. Please pray for us, I know that God listens to mothers’ prayers and I call all the women on earth to pray with you for peace in this world.

Your son sacrificed his life for a very noble cause…No, he sacrificed himself for the most precious value in this existence; that is freedom.

His blood didn’t go in vain; your son and our brethren are drawing a great example of selflessness.
God bless his free soul and God bless the souls of his comrades who are fighting evil.
God bless the souls of Iraqis who suffered and died for the sake of freedom.
God bless all the freedom lovers on earth.

Excerpt: read it all:

iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/2005/08/message-to-cindy-sheehan.html
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Wow!
 
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ShroudMan:
More military families who lost loved ones in this unust war of imperialism are heading out in support of Cindy! GO CINDY! God Bless you and your movement!

A-MEN! 👍
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They are? I havent seen that on any of the news coverage. In fact so far i have seen an interview with exactly one other Gold Star Mom who agrees with Ms Sheehan. I am sure there are others BUT I have seen numerous commens and interviews from Mothers in simialr situations who believe that Ms sheehan not only dishonors her son but their sons as well.

BTW-has anyone noticed that the MM doesnt like to pan their cameras to the other side of the road from “Camp Casey”. Seems there are more people on that side of the road SUPPORTING Presdient Bush than there are with the publicity seeking (she admits this) Ms Sheehan.
 
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Snicker:
Shame on all of you!! Everyone of you who say this woman is dishonering her son. She speaks the truth about the immorality and illegalityof this war and all you can say is she dishoners her son. Atleast she has the courage to speak the truth about this war, which most of you can’t stand. You want to pretend we are in some holy crusade against evil when it is America that is commiting evil every single day. You simply ignore the facts that we were lied to about the reasons for this war. YOU CAN’T STAND THE TRUTH! It makes you uncomfortable. I bet the Sermon on The Mount makes you want to pull your hair out!
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I have to say - a vast majority of these posts have been extremely charitable towards Mrs. Sheehan.
 
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ShroudMan:
More military families who lost loved ones in this unust war of imperialism are heading out in support of Cindy! GO CINDY! God Bless you and your movement!

May many rosaries be said to show the truth of this president and his unjust war and opening peoples eyes…and according to the polls that show people are losing faith in this crazy man representing our country…the PRAYERS ARE WORKING!!! 🙂

A-MEN! 👍
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Hwo can you claim to pray - and refer to the Commander-In Chief as a “crazy man”?
 
For those who still question whether she is being exploited:

From the Daily Kos:

**Framing Cindy Sheehan - we are making errors **

**by dataguy **

Sat Aug 13th, 2005 at 06:56:05 PDT

We are making errors with references to Cindy Sheehan.

What are we trying to accomplish with promoting her?

    • Emphasizing her sacrifice.
    • Emphasizing her stating truth to power.
    • Emphasizing her plain speaking, clear statements.
      • Relate her vigil over her dead son to universal archtypes of all vigils over dead children killed by dictatorial rulers throughout all history.
      My suggestions below:
      • We should call her “Mother Sheehan”. We should never call her Cindy; I don’t know her. “Mother Sheehan” is her title, and expresses her ceremonial status as a bereaved mother, calling forth over the dead body of her son. She is not a person now, she is a mother, which is not an expression of her individuality, but rather the expression of her eternal character: the mother, the bringer of life who has been wronged by state power.
      • We should use the word "sacrifice". She has sacrificed the most precious thing a mother has, the life and promise of her child.
      • We should use the word "useless" frequently. The death of her son is a useless sacrifise, done for the vanity of the ruler.
      • We should not use the name of her son. Her son is a symbol of all sons who have been sacrificed for this useless and criminal war.
      • The term "vigil" should be used to describe the persons and their patient petition to the dictatorial ruler. It is a vigil over the body of the dead son, killed by the ruler for his own purposes.
      • The right will try to INDIVIDUALIZE and SPECIALIZE her complaint. We must try to make her cry the UNIVERSAL and ETERNAL cry of all mothers whose children have died at the whim of the tyrannical and dictatorial ruler, who has made the decision to push children to the front of the army for his own, useless purposes. We must seek to make this like funeral vigils over all time. This is not Mother Sheehan's vigil, this is a vigil over the dead son, killed by the ruler for his own selfish reasons.
      • If there are any persons who are theatre professionals at the Sheenan vigil, they should arrange things much more theatrically.
        • If I was there, I would not let Mother Sheehan talk to the press, but I would have her talk only through a spokesperson. In particular, I would not allow her to argue with critics, and would allow no critics to approach her. Her dignity must be preserved. If lesser emissaries from the ruler arrive (C Rice, etc), these should not be allowed to speak to Mother Sheehan.
 
Ms Sheehan then and now(from Michelle Malkins Blog)-note the HUGE difference between then and now:

From the Vacaville Reporter 6/24/04

Since learning in April that their son, Army Spc. Casey Sheehan, had been killed in Iraq, life has been everything but normal for the Sheehan family of Vacaville. Casey’s parents, Cindy and Patrick, as well as their three children, have attended event after event honoring the soldier both locally and abroad, received countless letters of support and fielded questions from reporters across the country.

“That’s the way our whole lives have been since April 4,” Patrick said. “It’s been surreal.”

But none of that prepared the family for the message left on their answering machine last week, inviting them to have a face-to-face meeting with President George W. Bush at Fort Lewis near Seattle.

Surreal soon seemed like an understatement, as the Sheehans - one of 17 families who met Thursday with Bush - were whisked in a matter of days to the Army post and given the VIP treatment from the military. But as their meeting with the president approached, the family was faced with a dilemma as to what to say when faced with Casey’s commander-in-chief.

“We haven’t been happy with the way the war has been handled,” Cindy said. “The president has changed his reasons for being over there every time a reason is proven false or an objective reached.”

The 10 minutes of face time with the president could have given the family a chance to vent their frustrations or ask Bush some of the difficult questions they have been asking themselves, such as whether Casey’s sacrifice would make the world a safer place.

But in the end, the family decided against such talk, deferring to how they believed Casey would have wanted them to act. In addition, Pat noted that Bush wasn’t stumping for votes or trying to gain a political edge for the upcoming election.

“We have a lot of respect for the office of the president, and I have a new respect for him because he was sincere and he didn’t have to take the time to meet with us,” Pat said.

Sincerity was something Cindy had hoped to find in the meeting. Shortly after Casey died, Bush sent the family a form letter expressing his condolences, and Cindy said she felt it was an impersonal gesture.

"I now know he’s sincere about wanting freedom for the Iraqis," Cindy said after their meeting. "I know he’s sorry and feels some pain for our loss. And I know he’s a man of faith."

The meeting didn’t last long, but in their time with Bush, Cindy spoke about Casey and asked the president to make her son’s sacrifice count for something. They also spoke of their faith.

While meeting with Bush, as well as Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, was an honor, it was almost a tangent benefit of the trip. The Sheehans said they enjoyed meeting the other families of fallen soldiers, sharing stories, contact information, grief and support.

For some, grief was still visceral and raw, while for others it had melted into the background of their lives, the pain as common as breathing. Cindy said she saw her reflection in the troubled eyes of each.

“It’s hard to lose a son,” she said. “But we (all) lost a son in the Iraqi war.”

The trip had one benefit that none of the Sheehans expected.

For a moment, life returned to the way it was before Casey died. They laughed, joked and bickered playfully as they briefly toured Seattle.

For the first time in 11 weeks, they felt whole again.

"That was the gift the president gave us, the gift of happiness, of being together," Cindy said.

Now, here’s what Sheehan told CNN last weekend (Sunday, August 7, 2005) about her meeting with Bush last year, according to a transcript on Nexis:

It was – you know, there was a lot of things said. We wanted to use the time for him to know that he killed an indispensable part of our family and humanity. And we wanted him to look at the pictures of Casey. He wouldn’t look at the pictures of Casey. He didn’t even know Casey’s name. He came in the room and the very first thing he said is, “So who are we honoring here?” He didn’t even know Casey’s name. He didn’t want to hear it. He didn’t want to hear anything about Casey. He wouldn’t even call him “him” or “he.” He called him “your loved one.”

Every time we tried to talk about Casey and how much we missed him, he would change the subject. And he acted like it was a party.
 
I heard a replay of an interview she did with Keith Olberman…my apologies that this isn’t word-for-word…

He mentioned the ironic point that if President Bush would meet with her it would actually cut down on her media coverage, and she responded in the affirmative. She then added that she hopes he doesn’t because that would spoil her momentum.

So, does she really want to meet with the President? Apparently, not. Color me shocked!

God Bless,

Robert
 
Im just heard her interview with Tony Snow. She said that since Bush used the meeting with her for political purposes (a lie of course) it was OK for her to use it for political purposes. I no longer have a sympathy from this woman. Her “crusade” has nothing to do with her son and everything to do with her far left wing politics. The left is using her and she is using her son’s death to advance her political views. its pathetic
 
Please do not speculate on the identity of any poster.

thank you
 
I think people are being mean to this woman. She lost her son, of course shes overemotional. She wants answers, she wants a reason why her son died. Im not going to get into whether the war is valid or not, but she is upset and wants answers. Did Bush meet with her before or after it was announced no WMDS were found. Once again, not a debate about whether the war is justified, but if she thinks the intelligence was flawed about the need to go to Iraq, she has a right to know. The left is using her, no doubt, but I dont think shes doing it for political views and attention and she doesnt care for her son. Thats awful! Shes distraught over the loss of her son, and is trying to figure out why, and she is probably very angry and does want negative news coverage for Bush. I think her behavior is understandable and I dont believe she’s a nutcase or trying to dishonor her son.
 
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