Cleric - its ok to beat woman and force them to have sex

[chrisse]

The whole point is that it is part of shariah law, which forms the civil law of islamic majority countries. Also under islamic law, the wife’s witness is worth less than of the man. Further he only has to say that she displeased him in some way, and then she is to blame, either partially (if there is any semblance of fairness) or totally.

The muslim Uncle Toms and Aunt Gemina’s are keeping the topic on a game of semantics. This is their specialty.

The woman has absolutely NO protection under shariah law.

The woman’s entry into islamic paradise is dependent on her husband’s pleasure of her.

Islam is a geo-political ideology based on the tactics of a cult which requires a total suspension of intellect to follow if you have any choice in the matter, which most muslims do not.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

i went to cattle sales which are almost the same…

Please be careful what u write , what u say. On the Judgment Day , you have to be accountable for all your deeds.

It’s not that several men are offering money or gifts to a woman & then she is chooing or parents are selling her.
At a time when people used to bury girls alive or considered them as part of property & divided step mothers among step sons , Islam gave women honour/status as human being & God ordered husband to give bridal gift , it’s a must for him .Bridal gift is a possesion of a woman only. It gives her a security , a strength when she is starting her new life in a new place. Moreover , it’s a command of God Almighty.

How can u compare it like cattle sales ?

 

[R_not]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

Please be careful what u write , what u say. On the Judgment Day , you have to be accountable for all your deeds.

It’s not that several men are offering money or gifts to a woman & then she is chooing or parents are selling her.
At a time when people used to bury girls alive or considered them as part of property & divided step mothers among step sons , Islam gave women honour/status as human being & God ordered husband to give bridal gift , it’s a must for him .Bridal gift is a possesion of a woman only. It gives her a security , a strength when she is starting her new life in a new place. Moreover , it’s a command of God Almighty.

How can u compare it like cattle sales ?

Why? In islam you are already predestined. Sorry, but many little girls in islam are still being buried alive, killed or have to fend for themselves just like in any other society that doesn’t place importance on girls.

This should not surprise any of us who are not brainwashed by islam - that there is nothing for the women when they get AIDS (why wouldn’t they - they have husbands who think that doing as many women as they can is honorable )

Yet, the Islamic community in Tanzania has remained quiet about the pandemic in their midst. Most Islamic institutions or organisations have no HIV/ AIDS programmes. Fewer still provide basic or spiritual services for those infected or affected by the virus. Among those affected are children orphaned by AIDS, some as young as 12 and having to care for siblings. The burden of looking after these children also falls on older citizens who have, moreover, lost means of familial support.

Aahh, then we have the notorious ‘honor killings’ in every country where sharia laws exist and brought to our countries - and being denied especially by the likes of the muslim women on these threads - especially sister amy with her rosey glasses :hypno: on

Teenagers buried alive

These girls just wanted to pick their own husbands. And silence is acceptance by muslim women in countries like ours.

Yet not even when a member of the Pakistani parliament, Israr Ullah Zehri, defended these barbaric killings as “century-old traditions” – when he said that killing women who defy male control by wanting to chose their own husbands is necessary to “stop obscenity” – was there international outrage
…
Every day, so-called “honor killings” of girls and women – often by members of their own families, and even when they are victims of rape – are unpunished, and even lauded, in Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and other Middle Eastern nations.

In Africa and parts of Southeast Asia and the Middle East, each year an estimated 2 million girls are genitally mutilated – another “moral” tradition that not only kills but exacts a terrible lifelong toll of disease and sexual dysfunction from those who survive.

It is really hard to believe sister amy, or any muslim woman, who can’t do the basic search on her PC to see what the real facts are regarding women in islam.

 

[Sister_Amy]

your good at burying your head in the sand amy

You quote a hadith, and I quote a hadith. I acknowledge both, you acknowledge only one. Which of us has her head in the sand?

I’d say the one who is only looking at the evidence she wants to see, and I’d say that’s you, who rejects the hadith from Aisha saying Muhammad never beat a woman.

 

[Sister_Amy]

There are plenty of cultural differences. Didn’t it seem to you, though, that she was trying to slight Muslims based on their wedding customs?

 

[Sister_Amy]

I wasn’t implying that dishes is a woman’s job

You completely missed the point

Alas, it happens.

 

[Sister_Amy]

The whole point is that it is part of shariah law, which forms the civil law of islamic majority countries. Also under islamic law, the wife’s witness is worth less than of the man. Further he only has to say that she displeased him in some way, and then she is to blame, either partially (if there is any semblance of fairness) or totally.

The muslim Uncle Toms and Aunt Gemina’s are keeping the topic on a game of semantics. This is their specialty.

The woman has absolutely NO protection under shariah law.

The woman’s entry into islamic paradise is dependent on her husband’s pleasure of her.

Islam is a geo-political ideology based on the tactics of a cult which requires a total suspension of intellect to follow if you have any choice in the matter, which most muslims do not.

Weird. Not just that you said it, but that you’ll probably get away with saying that. How rude.

 

[Sister_Amy]

In some cultures, the custom is for the bride’s family to actually pay the groom or his family for the marriage. That was the custom in England, wasn’t it?

The tradition specified in Islam, however, is that the groom give the wife a gift at the marriage. He is not paying her for anything, he is giving her a gift that is totally hers. It’s usually a sum of money but doesn’t have to be. It is something that she gets to keep if he divorces her. (But which she relinquishes in order to divorce him.)

The money is never to go to her family, but exclusively to her.

 

[R_not]

You quote a hadith, and I quote a hadith. I acknowledge both, you acknowledge only one. Which of us has her head in the sand?

I’d say the one who is only looking at the evidence she wants to see, and I’d say that’s you, who rejects the hadith from Aisha saying Muhammad never beat a woman.

I will answer for myself - you need to tell your violent fellow muslims those peaceful passages. Even the ones in Michigan who want a priest dead for telling the truth about mohammed. Tell your own for spouting hatred in the streets when they riot. Tell your own when they start their ‘I hate Jews’ junk. Tell your own when they kill their daughters and wives because of some imagined trespass against islam.

Go tell it to your own and then come back and tell us how ‘peaceful’ and ‘great’ islam is and how holey the koran and hadiths are.

We know that those ‘peaceful’, weaker surahs are also abrogated and replaced. And you never have mentioned that.

Oh, and come back and tell us ‘you alone cannot do anything’… boo hoo hoo

Well, I am alone telling people what is correct. Many are alone in their lives telling people what is correct.

I can tell you what you do… you practice kitman and you know you do. You also practice taqiyya - leaving out a lot of information knowing you are not telling the full truth.

 

[Sister_Amy]

I will answer for myself - you need to tell your violent fellow muslims those peaceful passages. Even the ones in Michigan who want a priest dead for telling the truth about mohammed. Tell your own for spouting hatred in the streets when they riot. Tell your own when they start their ‘I hate Jews’ junk. Tell your own when they kill their daughters and wives because of some imagined trespass against islam.

Go tell it to your own and then come back and tell us how ‘peaceful’ and ‘great’ islam is and how holey the koran and hadiths are.

We know that those ‘peaceful’, weaker surahs are also abrogated and replaced. And you never have mentioned that.

Oh, and come back and tell us ‘you alone cannot do anything’… boo hoo hoo

Well, I am alone telling people what is correct. Many are alone in their lives telling people what is correct.

I can tell you what you do… you practice kitman and you know you do. You also practice taqiyya - leaving out a lot of information knowing you are not telling the full truth.

Whatever.

She and I were talking about two specific authentic hadith. You’re talking about weak and abrogated surahs, peaceful and violent Muslims–which is totally unrelated to the topic.

Can’t you handle sticking to the subject?

 

[R_not]

Whatever.

She and I were talking about two specific authentic hadith. You’re talking about weak and abrogated surahs, peaceful and violent Muslims–which is totally unrelated to the topic.

Can’t you handle sticking to the subject?

Did you hold your hand up when you wrote ‘whatever’?

Sorry, about the surahs - but the rest still applies - kitman and taqiyya.

Now, ‘whatever’ yourself to kingdom come, like a teenager.

Talk about ignoring the violence in islam - you two ignore it so much I can hear the scurrying away to avoid it.

Do you say ‘whatever’ when you know that muslim women in muslim lands have no safe houses, or in some cases can’t even go to a doctor because the girls can’t go to schools to even become doctors, or their male owners won’t let them go get treatment?

 

[Sister_Amy]

Did you hold your hand up when you wrote ‘whatever’?

Sorry, about the surahs - but the rest still applies - kitman and taqiyya.

Now, ‘whatever’ yourself to kingdom come, like a teenager.

Talk about ignoring the violence in islam - you two ignore it so much I can hear the scurrying away to avoid it.

Do you say ‘whatever’ when you know that muslim women in muslim lands have no safe houses, or in some cases can’t even go to a doctor because the girls can’t go to schools to even become doctors, or their male owners won’t let them go get treatment?

I know you haven’t got an inkling of a clue what’s going on in Afghanistan–typical, really.

All you do when I post is try to drag the thread off-topic and find some way to call me a liar.

Nobody’s falling for it.

 

[tomarin]

This should not surprise any of us who are not brainwashed by islam - that there is nothing for the women when they get AIDS (why wouldn’t they - they have husbands who think that doing as many women as they can is honorable )

Just curious, what’s the basis for your assertion about honor and promiscuity?

 

[dzheremi]

Yeah, I’ve never heard anything like that even hinted at by Muslims. Where do you get that idea?

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

…
The money is never to go to her family, but exclusively to her.

In my country , normally it’s given by gold ornaments .

 

[Booklover]

I actually read something in the BBC today about this–the PM (I think?) of Australia was apparently offended and wanted the person to recant.

But I looked over his claims, and frankly I–as a woman, and as a Muslim–do not see the problem with what he said. I think his remarks were taken to deliberately smear Islam, or to turn Muslims against him (and against Islam.)

He didn’t say anything other than what I’ve said here about the same verses in the Qur’an and ahadith from the lips of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh.)

He did not say it was okay to “beat” women–in fact, he said that the man is not allowed to leave a bruise or a mark on his wife. Would you call that beating? I wouldn’t! Is that based on Islam? Absolutely–there is a hadith stating pretty much the same thing.

He also didn’t say men should force their wives to have sex–what he said was that women should not refuse their husbands without a valid reason. Is that promoting rape? I don’t think so! Is that based on Islam? Yep! There’s a hadith which says that as well.

And I stand by both statements.

Muhammad stated that it was okay for a man to beat his wife. Whether lightly or whatever he paved the way for worse beatings and furthermore made it legal to do so! Can you not see the rippling effects of his statement and how it could be taken?


Wife beating as therapy

Vickie

 

[R_not]

Just curious, what’s the basis for your assertion about honor and promiscuity?

I don’t understand the question.

Sorry about so late in responding, I have been away for the most part.

 

[R_not]

I know you haven’t got an inkling of a clue what’s going on in Afghanistan–typical, really.

All you do when I post is try to drag the thread off-topic and find some way to call me a liar.

Nobody’s falling for it.

How do you know what I know about Afghanistan and the rest of the Middle East? Since I was in the USMC, and my ex is still in - how do you know I don’t get first hand reports on it? Or from my nephew who just recently got back from Iraq?

I would say that lying means leaving out important information in order to mislead - and yes, you do that. You do it all the time. never once did you let us know when you quote the weaker, meccan surahs that they are abrogated. Or never once did you mention dar al harb/dar al islam.

I could go on but this will be fruitless. I got some other things to post from some ex-muslimas. Those that do speak out against the violence against women in islam.

 

[R_not]

Wafa Sultan harshly criticizes the status of women in islam

Wafa Sultan: ”If Islam really treated women with honor, we would see the positive consequences of that honor over the course of the past 14 centuries. Islam did not treat women with honor. On the contrary, it has distorted the concept of honor.

“My brother Rashid, I can call this pen a knife for 14 centuries, but it will never become a knife. It will remain a pen. Islam has turned these concepts upside-down, and has forced its followers to see things as their opposites – to view killing and beheading as an act of tolerance, to view taking a woman captive as an act of compassion, to view the plundering of spoils of war as their right, and to view masturbation against a little girl’s thighs as marriage.
“Thus, it has destroyed the intellectual structure of the Arabic-speaking nation, and has produced people who cannot distinguish between things and their opposites – people with distorted thinking and warped mentality, as infertile as barren land, which cannot yield a thing.

“The best proof of this is the reality of Islam. When the Prophet Muhammad married the child ‘Aisha, this was not an act of honor toward her childhood. When Muhammad married Zaynab, the wife of his adopted son, after seeing her naked and desiring her, this was not an act of honor toward married women. When Muhammad married the Jewish woman Safiya, upon his return from a raid in which he killed her father, brother, and husband, this was not an act of honor toward her. The same goes for all his marriages.”

(how often have we read this type of reversal of thinking in the muslims on this thread. Or another thread - ‘How do Muslims rationalize the actions of Muhammad?’ - you would be surprised how one rationalized mohammed’s poor behavior.

How they rationalize mohammed’s poor behavior

 

[tomarin]

R_not,

My question referred to your Post #177 in which you wrote

This should not surprise any of us who are not brainwashed by islam - that there is nothing for the women when they get AIDS (why wouldn’t they - they have husbands who think that doing as many women as they can is honorable )

I just wondered why you felt that Muslim men think having a lot of sex partners was honorable.