Cleric - its ok to beat woman and force them to have sex

[Sister_Amy]

LOL… should I say thanks?

 

[Reuben_J]

Yep. That’s why I used the work “poke.” My dad’s done the same thing to me before. Poke is the word I’d use–it hurt sometimes, but wasn’t serious and wasn’t even close to “beating.”

You surely have a bizarre way of understanding what beating is. Well, at least after listening to you my dimension of repertoire on what a beating is will be widened tremendously.

Poke, beat, whatever, but the end result is to inflict pain. She (Aishah) experienced pain and whatever you described what Mohammad did to her, it was pain that he inflicted upon her. And he could do this to her with impunity because Allah commanded husbands can do it to their wives.

If you’re killing gnats on the word beat, then I think you would miss the message altogether in the verse. Why the command to beat if it is not to inflict pain; if it is not to admonish the wife?

I will not push this argument any further because as a Muslim you have the final say to what the Quran teaches. However, I am pretty sure many Muslim men do not agree with your interpretation and that beating is a beating regardless of how one does it, the purpose of which is to cause pain on the recipient.

 

[dolphinlove]

Yawn. You’re not even arguing against me, just hopping onto the typical train. Muhammad did not beat women. It’s a fact.

Show me where it says he did not beat women, when he CONDONES it!
Its obvious you cant defend islam, hence you are taking the easy way out with weak answers… typical.

 

[dolphinlove]

Neither scenario is according to Islam. So if my husband fears Allah then he wouldn’t choose either beating rape. As I said, Islam permits neither in that situation.

yes it does, if a wife doesnt want to have sex, she is been disrespectful to her husband, according to islam. And if she rejects him enough, she gets beaten for it, so what is the only other option she has, to have sex against her will, its called RAPE.
so yes, islam does condone both these actions.

 

[R_not]

The Qur’an sanctions the beating of disobedient women (4:34). In one New Zealand town, those who want to escape this abuse are afraid to do so because a mosque is next door to the shelter, and they could be recognized. Don’t these battered Muslim women know that Islam teaches peace and tolerance?

“Women refuse refuge because of nearby mosque,” by Esther Harward for the Sunday Star Times, via DW

http://sheikyermami.com/wp-content/uploads/wives3.jpg

Muslim women are staying away from a domesitc violence crisis centre since a mosque opened next door.

The Auckland Shakti Asian Women’s Centre in Onehunga helps women escape violent domestic situations but women are too scared to go because they may be recognised by their husbands or relatives attending the mosque.

The centre has an alternative premises but cannot move in because Auckland City Council has held back planning permission for more than a year.

Meanwhile, Housing New Zealand Corporation is paying $310 a week $4030 so far for security guards to keep vandals away from the empty building that the women could move into.

Centre spokesperson Shila Nair said victims were “really afraid” to go to the centre in Church St, Onehunga in case they were recognised by men worshipping at the Onehunga Islamic Mosque, which is over a boundary fence.

Women who visited the centre usually did so without telling their husbands, she said. “If their husbands, in-laws or any other family members or friends were to know that they have visited Shakti, life for them would be even more difficult. We have had instances of women who visited our Women’s Centre later accessing our refuge.”

Most were from Middle Eastern, Africa and Asian countries that don’t legislate against domestic violence. Staff tell them what their rights are under New Zealand law.

The crisis centre took 4800 phone calls last year on a 24 hour nationwide helpline of which 90% were about family violence. Of the calls, half of the women were recommended to visit for counselling, legal advice or training.

The housing corporation renovated another building for the women to move to after the mosque bought a building next door from the Jehovah’s Witness church. The women have been waiting for 18 months for the council to grant resource consent for them to use the house. Council resource consents team leader Ian Smallburn said the consent was “on hold” because of concerns about the impact of parking on neighbours, trees and stormwater. It was not known when the issues would be resolved.

The centre opened a decade ago and is the busiest of Shakti’s five branches in Auckland, Tauranga and Christchurch, which together they help 6000 women a year escape domestic abuse.

(as a side note - Europe’s ‘safe houses’ are also full of muslim women. source: Eurasia, While Europe Slept and Menace in Europe)

 

[Sister_Amy]

Show me where it says he did not beat women, when he CONDONES it!
Its obvious you cant defend islam, hence you are taking the easy way out with weak answers… typical.

Aisha said it, that he never beat a woman or a slave. It’s a saheeh hadith from her.

 

[Sister_Amy]

yes it does, if a wife doesnt want to have sex, she is been disrespectful to her husband, according to islam. And if she rejects him enough, she gets beaten for it, so what is the only other option she has, to have sex against her will, its called RAPE.
so yes, islam does condone both these actions.

There are three levels of discipline. A man is not allowed to beat his wife in anger. If she does something against Islam then his recourse is not to beat her, but to explain her error.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

Show me where it says he did not beat women

Do u have any proof that he did ?

Once he was angry with his
wives . Instead of beating , he stayed at mosque for several days & nights. It’s a good example for all men , not only Muslims . Problem is many Muslim men don’t follow the example of the Prophet (p).

 

[dolphinlove]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

Do u have any proof that he did ?

Once he was angry with his
wives . Instead of beating , he stayed at mosque for several days & nights. It’s a good example for all men , not only Muslims . Problem is many Muslim men don’t follow the example of the Prophet (p).

Book 004, Number 2127: I said: There is nothing. He said: Tell me or the Subtle and the Aware would inform me. I said: Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story). He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you?

Dictionary meaning of STRUCK

1. to deal a blow or stroke to (a person or thing), as with the fist, a weapon, or a hammer; hit.
2. to inflict, deliver, or deal (a blow, stroke, attack, etc.).
3. to drive so as to cause impact: to strike the hands together.
4. to thrust forcibly: Brutus struck a dagger into the dying Caesar.

Dictionary meaning of PAIN

1. physical suffering or distress, as due to injury, illness, etc.
2. a distressing sensation in a particular part of the body: a back pain.

Now, ive even taken the time to look up the words struck and pain for you, now it says CLEARLY in the hadith, that muhammad STRUCK aisha and caused her PAIN.
Is this not beating his wife???
Face it, your prophet beat women, why deny it.
i rest my case.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

…Face it, your prophet beat women, .

In the past , Christian missionaries brought so many allegations against our Prophet (p) . I never heard that they accused him as cruel to wives .

So , you want to say , Mother Aisha (p) used to complain to people that Prophet beats her mercilessly ? Then why when God gave choice if the wives of the Last Prophet want to end married life t in the exchange of earthy wealth , it was Mother Aisha (p) who first replied , I want Prophet ?

 

[R_not]

Well, here is a warning for anyone to rethink who they are marrying:

Canadian women being held against her will in Saudi Arabia - she is his property.

My guess that the muslim women on this thread better say they are not getting beat up or else…

You are nothing but property and if you get out of line - smack! Now, if your owner has a bit more patience on one day he might give you a warning, if he doesn’t have any patience and needs some anger management classes - you get thumped. Of course, there is no such thing as anger management courses in islam just like there is no such thing as ‘safe houses’ for women to escape their abuser. that is because it is all ok to hit women in islam.

What a thing for a religion to have in a holey book.

 

[dolphinlove]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

In the past , Christian missionaries brought so many allegations against our Prophet (p) . I never heard that they accused him as cruel to wives .

So , you want to say , Mother Aisha (p) used to complain to people that Prophet beats her mercilessly ? Then why when God gave choice if the wives of the Last Prophet want to end married life t in the exchange of earthy wealth , it was Mother Aisha (p) who first replied , I want Prophet ?

hang on, first you ask me for proof that your prophet beats his wives, i produce it, now you want me to answer for aisha?
wasnt aisha 6 when she had to make this choice? oh gee, i wonder if she really knew what she was agreeing to?
I wonder if i ask a 6 year old if they want to have sex with a man in his 50’s, i wonder if they know what im even talking about.

 

[dolphinlove]

Well, here is a warning for anyone to rethink who they are marrying:

Canadian women being held against her will in Saudi Arabia - she is his property.

My guess that the muslim women on this thread better say they are not getting beat up or else…

You are nothing but property and if you get out of line - smack! Now, if your owner has a bit more patience on one day he might give you a warning, if he doesn’t have any patience and needs some anger management classes - you get thumped. Of course, there is no such thing as anger management courses in islam just like there is no such thing as ‘safe houses’ for women to escape their abuser. that is because it is all ok to hit women in islam.

What a thing for a religion to have in a holey book.

i went to a muslim wedding once here in oz, it was almost like going to an auction. 4 of the men come from the segregated area of which men are only allowed to be, then they come and ask the bride if she wants to marry her husband to be, and they all have to witness it, then he offers some sort of money and possessions to her. its quite weird really…
i went to cattle sales which are almost the same…

 

[Sister_Amy]

Book 004, Number 2127: I said: There is nothing. He said: Tell me or the Subtle and the Aware would inform me. I said: Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story). He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you?

Dictionary meaning of STRUCK

1. to deal a blow or stroke to (a person or thing), as with the fist, a weapon, or a hammer; hit.
2. to inflict, deliver, or deal (a blow, stroke, attack, etc.).
3. to drive so as to cause impact: to strike the hands together.
4. to thrust forcibly: Brutus struck a dagger into the dying Caesar.

Dictionary meaning of PAIN

1. physical suffering or distress, as due to injury, illness, etc.
2. a distressing sensation in a particular part of the body: a back pain.

Now, ive even taken the time to look up the words struck and pain for you, now it says CLEARLY in the hadith, that muhammad STRUCK aisha and caused her PAIN.
Is this not beating his wife???
Face it, your prophet beat women, why deny it.
i rest my case.

Aisha did not consider it to be a beating.

 

[Sister_Amy]

i went to a muslim wedding once here in oz, it was almost like going to an auction. 4 of the men come from the segregated area of which men are only allowed to be, then they come and ask the bride if she wants to marry her husband to be, and they all have to witness it, then he offers some sort of money and possessions to her. its quite weird really…
i went to cattle sales which are almost the same…

Your biased perceptions never cease to amaze me.

There is an area for men, and an area for women. That is to say, both are segregated.

The bride actually asks the husband if he wants to marry her as specified in the contract (which is usually done up before) and only two people are required to witness (unless I’m mistaken, but I think it’s only two.)

But what happens in Christian ceremonies is pretty much the same except that the males and females are all mixed in together. The man is asked if he wants to marry the bride, and the bride is asked if she wants to marry the groom.

 

[Reuben_J]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

In the past , Christian missionaries brought so many allegations against our Prophet (p) . I never heard that they accused him as cruel to wives .

So , you want to say , Mother Aisha (p) used to complain to people that Prophet beats her mercilessly ? Then why when God gave choice if the wives of the Last Prophet want to end married life t in the exchange of earthy wealth , it was Mother Aisha (p) who first replied , I want Prophet ?

What is being established here is the fact that he beat her, which caused her pain.

As for your second question the root cause of her answer should be deeper than that. Many wives stick to their husbands regardless of what the husbands did to them; there are surely other considerations to think of instead of leaving simply because the husbands were bad. I do not think wives take marriage lightly and surely women do not think changing husbands is like changing baby napkins, which once wet must be changed.

I cannot say how Mohammad was as a husband, whether he was good or not. That he beat his wives was a fact if what had happened to Aishah is any indication. In his time surely being married to him is something women would look up to. You have to admit that he was in an envious position compared to ordinary male Arab nomads of his tribe.

In the case of Aishah, being married to Mohammad meant the legacy that came with it - the inheritance of the Kingdom and Islam. There was much for her to do before and after the demise of Mohammad. I cannot imagine she would opt for anything else after being so much entrenched in the life of Mohammad. Remember she was a child when she married him and Mohammad molded practically all her adulthood development. I cannot imagine that she would change her mentality after the influence of Mohammad in her life.

 

[dolphinlove]

Aisha did not consider it to be a beating.

your good at burying your head in the sand amy

 

[R_not]

i went to a muslim wedding once here in oz, it was almost like going to an auction. 4 of the men come from the segregated area of which men are only allowed to be, then they come and ask the bride if she wants to marry her husband to be, and they all have to witness it, then he offers some sort of money and possessions to her. its quite weird really…
i went to cattle sales which are almost the same…

I think you are arguing with someone who is in complete denial.

I keep reading her posts and I go back to my ‘you got to take a mixer to your brains in order to understand, or be, a muslim’. And do it daily because if the brains get unscrambled - one could be in trouble - so mix them up reeeeaall good. How could anyone follow a guy such as mohammed? That is where it always ends up for me.

 

[dzheremi]

Isn’t separation of the sexes the custom for the Oriental Orthodox, as well? I know it is the practice in the Ethiopian Church, anyway.

 

[kellie]

Muhammad used to help his wives at home–he did the dishes. Islam does not say that cleaning the house is the woman’s responsibility–and it’s not. Muhammad himself helped clean the house and do the dishes.

Just something to think about.

I wasn’t implying that dishes is a woman’s job

You completely missed the point