Climate Change Debate: Pope VS Trump Supporters?

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Ender said:
It is certainly simpler to label people as being uncaring than to engage in discussions about why a particular social program is or is not a good idea, and that’s all this is. It assumes you’re good and they’re bad because they disagree with you about what needs to be done. If you were more comfortable with your positions you would be more inclined to defend ideas and perhaps less inclined to attack people.

Ender
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JanetF said:
Quote: Can you even call yourself Catholic if you disobey the Holy Father?

Be very careful…The only things Catholics are bound to agree with the Pope on are doctrines of the faith. His opinions about climate, etc are non-binding.

Additionally, I don’t think it’s accurate to say the GOP doesn’t care about healthcare, helping the poor, and climate change. They simply have different policies that the Democrats.

Ask yourself this, have the democratically inspired policies done much to help poor people? Was The Affordable Care Act everything they promised it would be? Have their climate policies made a noticeable difference.

Maybe, just maybe this is beyond political party. Blaming conservatives because they don’t think government involvement is the cure all for every issue is short-sighted. It seems to me that the federal government used to get a lot more accomplished when both sides met and COMPROMISED to bring forth good policies, but that hasn’t happened in decades.
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There is very much sense of dismissing those who disagree with man made global warming. That is what angers me the most. There is no real debate here at all. There is a lot arrogant and condescending implications that those who do not agree with man made global warming are somehow not Christian or Catholic. The fanaticism is just scary.

I posted my pictures for a reason. I don’t believe in man made global warming, but I don’t have horns, a tail and a pitch fork. I am not dumping used motor oil into the water stream. I don’t dump trash illegally. I like clean water. I like hiking, fishing, boating, and gardening. I fertilize with natural organics. I compost regularly. I don’t want to swim in dirty water. I don’t want lead in the water and soil. I don’t want see alligator gar go extinct (my pet cause). I have 3 daughters that I am raising with a Catholic/Christian mind set. We attend Mass regularly and try to stay active in the parish. I sacrifice quite a bit financially to send my kids through Catholic schools because that is the community I want them raised in.

It is deeply hurtful to see the implications that I am somehow less Catholic and somehow I don’t care about the environment because I don’t agree with someone’s position on man made global warming.

I am proud of the people here who stood up and asked questions. I am not the only here (and one other threads) who question the OP’s claim to be 15 yo. I am proud of the people who are pointing out the fanatic fascism going on here.
 
robertmidwest said:
There is very much sense of dismissing those who disagree with man made global warming. That is what angers me the most. There is no real debate here at all. There is a lot arrogant and condescending implications that those who do not agree with man made global warming are somehow not Christian or Catholic. The fanaticism is just scary.
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For decades the debates about social policies have taken the form of “You’re wrong” vs “You’re evil.” It doesn’t matter what the topic is, this positioning is inevitable
It is deeply hurtful to see the implications that I am somehow less Catholic and somehow I don’t care about…
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One of the reasons the tactic of uncharitably judging others has been so successful is that the people so maligned take the charges so seriously. Ironically, the charge only works against the very people against whom is it most invalidly used. Think about all the times you’ve heard someone preface a remark by saying “I’m not a (bigot, sexist, racist, xenophobe, …) but…” before criticizing someone. All of that is meant to preemptively short circuit the anticipated charge that he is a bigot (etc) simply for being critical.

We need to get beyond the reaction such charges normally induce. Such accusations are vile and baseless, and that is how they should be treated.

Ender
 
meltzerboy said:
I do not think the labels of liberal or conservative tell us much about what people do or do not do to help others. I would therefore not say that liberals talk more and act less, necessarily. It is really based on the individual, not their party affiliation.
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I was speaking to my experience and after a post stating that the GOP is against he environment and poor people … I am absolutely fed up with being depicted at the devil’s disciple because we don’t fall lock step in with liberal policies that purport to help the downtrodden -

We can differ on the best ways to help people

We cannot continue to overspend funds - which the government does not have - running up ever and ever increasing deficits …just to pretend we are helping the poor … the war on poverty is a failed policy - 50 years that experiment has been in place … it has destroyed the family - which while it has hurt all of America has impacted minority families hardest

I care, I care a great deal - but jut as I do with my own family - I refuse to continue to throw money at a problem that is never dealt with …

So while I agree - labels are not helpful - Conservatives and Republicans have taken the brunt of that assault - and I am tired of it …

Generally speaking the left is less tolerant and more aggressive and hateful …and since November even more so …
 
YADA said:
I am absolutely fed up with being depicted at the devil’s disciple…
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And the right approach is not to put up with it, to call people out on it when those types of allegations are made. This has gone on for so long such charges are no longer even recognized as insults. So, don’t put up with it. Push back.

Ender
 
lynnvinc said:
Except for those who did not protect the environment so as to protect life on earth. They may be asked to “step below.” :eek:
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Are you saying then that someone who does not believe in global warming can not also be someone who is protecting the environment and therefor is condemned to hell?
 
robertmidwest said:
Are you saying then that someone who does not believe in global warming can not also be someone who is protecting the environment and therefor is condemned to hell?
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Global Warming is destroying our environment.

Refusing to protect the earth, which we were placed “as stewards of” (paraphrasing of Genesis 1)

You are taking things too far.
and PLEASE don’t spam pictures of you fishing.
 
https://forums.catholic-questions.org/picture.php?albumid=2666&pictureid=18793

This is a Tangerine tree I am growing from seed. Three years old now. The pic from last Sept., so it is about 2.5 years at the time.

Oops! Looks like there was some car cleaning stuff in the background. Sorry, I do use chemical stuff once in a while.

Tangerines don’t survive the winters in Missouri so I have use artificial light to keep alive. Sorry again. I burned up a few BTUs of coal. Will I go to hell?
 
robertmidwest said:
This is a Tangerine tree I am growing from seed. Three years old now. The pic from last Sept., so it is about 2.5 years at the time.

Oops! Looks like there was some car cleaning stuff in the background. Sorry, I do use chemical stuff once in a while.

Tangerines don’t survive the winters in Missouri so I have use artificial light to keep alive. Sorry again. I burned up a few BTUs of coal. Will I go to hell?
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Using coal completely undos any benefit of that tree.

Having a Tree in your house doesn’t mean you protect the environment. At all.

No one said you were going to Hell, so stop sharing pictures and please, just debate the topic of the thread?
 
TeenCatholicGuy said:
Using coal completely undos any benefit of that tree.
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The only benefit of the tree is my enjoyment of it. So using electric light (coal) to keep the tree alive in the winter (improve the quality of my life) is a sin?
TeenCatholicGuy said:
No one said you were going to Hell
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Lynnvinc said people who “do not protect the environment” would be asked to “step aside” by Jesus. I am asking him clarify if he means that people who do not believe in man made global warming (his opinion of protecting the environment ) are condemned to Hell.
 
robertmidwest said:
The only benefit of the tree is my enjoyment of it. So using electric light to keep the tree alive in the winter is a sin?
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I never said it was a sin. I was saying using coal power is wrong.
There is a difference.
robertmidwest said:
Lynnvinc said people who “do not protect the environment” would be asked to “step aside” by Jesus. I am asking him clarify if he means that people who do no believe in protecting the environment are condemned to Hell.
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I won’t approve or disapprove of their comment at this point, but i’ll quote Genesis.
So God created humankind in his image, in the image of God he created them,
Male and Female, he created them.
God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” God said, “See, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food. And to every beast of the earth, and bird of the air,
and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life,
I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so. God saw everything he made,
and indeed, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.
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-Genesis 1:27-31
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What do you think?
 
TeenCatholicGuy said:
What do you think?
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I think you are confusing believing the theory of man made global warming with stewardship of the earth.

Side note: I had to edit my previous post a couple of times. It looks like what you quoted from not my latest edit. Sorry to confuse things. What I am asking lynnvinc is this: is he excluding people who don’t believe in man made from people who can be environmentalists?
 
I never said it was a sin. I was saying using coal power is wrong.
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then why are you for the paris executive order? it will allow china and india to build coal burning plants for years to come. they will increase emissions until they reach peak which is estimated to be 2030. it is estimated that china will increase emissions another 30%
 
robertmidwest said:
I think you are confusing believing the theory of man made global warming with stewardship of the earth.

Side note: I had to edit my previous post a couple of times. It looks like what you quoted from not my latest edit. Sorry to confuse things. What I am asking lynnvinc is this: is he excluding people who don’t believe in man made from people who can be environmentalists?
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Thank you for completely disregarding my direct quote from the Bible sitting on my lap.

Global Warming isn’t a Theory.

By refusing to believe in Man-made Global Warming (resulting in Unnatural Climate Change)
you are directly ignoring the Vatican’s teaching. catholic.org/news/green/story.php?id=50128

And the majority of the world.

popsci.com/evidence-climate-change-is-real
nwf.org/Wildlife/Threats-to-Wildlife/Global-Warming/Global-Warming-is-Happening-Now.aspx
ucsusa.org/our-work/global-warming/science-and-impacts/global-warming-science#.WUH_GGgrK00
nationalgeographic.com/environment/global-warming/global-warming-real/
climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
 
upant said:
then why are you for the paris executive order? it will allow china and india to build coal burning plants for years to come. they will increase emissions until they reach peak which is estimated to be 2030. it is estimated that china will increase emissions another 30%
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China and India are developing countries. They don’t have the ability to phase out that kind of energy, as they actually can’t afford it. Look at all the healthcare costs they would face from all the pollution!

America has clearly taken advantage of Coal and Gas for much longer, and released much more carbon dioxide throughout it’s history then any other Country. You cannot actually say it’s unfair for the US to stop or reduce emissions. That’s just called White (or American) Privilege.
 
TeenCatholicGuy said:
Thank you for completely disregarding my direct quote from the Bible sitting on my lap.

Global Warming isn’t a Theory.

By refusing to believe in Man-made Global Warming (resulting in Unnatural Climate Change)
you are directly ignoring the Vatican’s teaching. catholic.org/news/green/story.php?id=50128

And the majority of the world.

popsci.com/evidence-climate-change-is-real
nwf.org/Wildlife/Threats-to-Wildlife/Global-Warming/Global-Warming-is-Happening-Now.aspx
ucsusa.org/our-work/global-warming/science-and-impacts/global-warming-science#.WUH_GGgrK00
nationalgeographic.com/environment/global-warming/global-warming-real/
climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
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So you agree with lynnvinc that not believing in man made global warming is a mortal sin.
 
robertmidwest said:
So you agree with lynnvinc that not believing in man made global warming is a mortal sin.
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I agree with the Vatican, the Pope, the Bible and God. Rather then question me, answer to my points.

Again, never did I say that.
 
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