CNN medical analyst wants to ‘cancel’ Christmas over COVID fears

[LeafByNiggle]

Not it is not.

Well, you say that, but then you go on to say:

If you read the rest of my post, you will see that heart disease deaths are down, COVID up. All deaths are of persons with COVID are classified as COVID. Even if they are in hospice with a few days to live. If they contract COVID while in hospice, it will be classified as COVID.

The number of deaths in the U.S in 2020 is not higher than the number of deaths in 2019. Just the cause has changed. I’ve posted graphs from the Johns Hopkins on this.

Which sure sounds likes you are suggesting that we are taking covid too seriously. Which is it?

Oh, and if you are referring to that withdrawn student newspaper article from John Hopkins, it was withdrawn for a reason!

 

[vz71]

Why should we ignore something that is hastening deaths?

Because hastening a death is not the same thing as causing a death.

Someone that shoots themselves in the head should not be listed as a casualty of covid.
It doesn’t matter if they had it or not, they did not die from it.

But that is exactly the scenario being set up in calling covid for anything that may have had covid.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

Why should we ignore something that is hastening deaths?

Because hastening a death is not the same thing as causing a death.

And there we have it! The perfect excuse for the morality of euthanasia!

No, that is wrong! Morally, hastening a death is exactly like causing a death.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I and others have posted numerous other links to support our position.

The point is not that we don’t take the virus seriously, the point is the the extreme measures taken by some governors who think selective lockdowns work.

Casinos can have 50% capacity, churches only 25 people no matter the size. You can shop at Walmart, but you can only buy certain items while you’re there. Kids can’t play on playgrounds. That is what I’m talking about.

The number of deaths is no higher this year than last. People are going to die no matter what you do. Don’t blame it on people who oppose extreme measures that aren’t working.

I wear a mask at all times when I am out of the house. I decided to have fun with them and am sewing ones for every day of the week. Last week I made French themed ones. This week I’m onto Advent themed. I give them out to my friends.

I am depressed not to be able to see my great nieces and nephews at Christmas this year. Yes, I know Christmas is about Jesus. But I do enjoy the wonder little kids show at this time of year. They are under five little kids who won’t remember me when these lockdowns end.

 

[qui_est_ce]

And there we have it! The perfect excuse for the morality of euthanasia!

No, that is wrong! Morally, hastening a death is exactly like causing a death.

No it is not. When people are in hospice, we do not administer measure that prolong the death process.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

The number of deaths is no higher this year than last.

The CDC says otherwise. Only that unauthoritative withdrawn John Hopkins article claims what you say.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

And there we have it! The perfect excuse for the morality of euthanasia!

No, that is wrong! Morally, hastening a death is exactly like causing a death.

No it is not. When people are in hospice, we do not administer measure that prolong the death process.

Sure you do. You feed them.

Look, there is no way you can defend the basis of the excuse for euthanasia.

By the way, I am not defending the specific lockdown measures that are being taken.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Sure you do. You feed them.

That’s not what I am talking about and you know it.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

So, I guess if hastening the death of people with preexisting conditions is not the same as causing their death, then we can let Gov. Cuomo off the hook for “hastening” the deaths of those nursing home residents when he ordered nursing homes to accept covid patients. It seems that conservatives were all over him for that. It is nice to know you don’t blame him.

 

[PaulinVA]

If some people decide to attend Mass, that is their decision. They are not unmercifully putting people at risk, because the others there at Mass are also there as the result of a decision they have made.

But, have the persons these Mass-attenders encounter later decided to put themselves at risk by being close to these people?

No. Because they don’t know.

 

[Cathoholic]

Thanks for posting that link qui_est_ce.

COVID-19 Provisional Counts - Weekly Updates by Select Demographic and Geographic Characteristics

 

[Cathoholic]

But, have the persons these Mass-attenders encounter later decided to put themselves at risk by being close to these people?

No. Because they don’t know.

They are not going to “know” ten years from now either. (And if we continue to use that PRINCIPLE, this will permanently do-away with Mass).

They also did not “know” last year at this time with influenza.

Thank you for implicitly, tacitly, admitting you think this should be permanent.

 

[PaulinVA]

Thank you for implicitly, tacitly, admitting you think this should be permanent .

No, just calling out faulty logic.

I never said that anything should be permanent.

Step back while your straw man explodes in flames.

 

[Annie]

But, have the persons these Mass-attenders encounter later decided to put themselves at risk by being close to these people?

No. Because they don’t know.

I don’t exactly understand what you are saying…

So I decide to attend Mass. Others are at Mass also, a result of their free-will decision.

Those other people who were at Mass with me then encounter other people, both groups encountering each other voluntarily.

Look at it this way. Sally works in a nursing home. She decides the risks involved with her attending Mass are too high, so she doesn’t go.

Molly is young and in good health and works at home. She decides that even though there is an extremely slight risk of her becoming very sick, she will go the Mass.

As far as I can tell, we are all dispensed from the obligation. That allows each of us to make our own decisions according to our situations.

At my church, they have blocked off every other pew, and blocked off 6 feet of space within the open pews. Other churches have different arrangements, but they all have arrangements.

So the risk is slight; everyone is socially distanced, everyone is wearing masks, and everyone is there voluntarily.

So what do you think? We should lock everyone in their homes (if they still have one) and not let them out for a few years?

 

[sleepysam]

COVID-19 passes heart disease as leading killer in U.S. last week

COVID-19 was leading killer in U.S. last week: study

‘Makes you ask why the hell we even bother.’ Infectious disease experts face disillusionment as COVID-19 pandemic worsens

‘Makes you ask why the hell we even bother.’ Infectious disease experts face disillusionment as COVID-19 pandemic worsens - The Boston Globe

COVID-19 becomes top killer in U.S. as hospitals fill up: "It’s one giant ball of anxiety"

COVID-19 becomes top killer in U.S. as hospitals fill up: "It's one giant ball of anxiety" - CBS News

Eight Michigan hospitals at 100% capacity, 15 at 90% or more

Eight Michigan hospitals at 100% capacity, 15 at 90% or more

Since at least the past 50 years, American society has encouraged, cultivated, promoted and applauded selfishness, entitlement, ignorance, and greed. The COVID-19 disaster we’re in the middle of is 100% the result of this psychopathic trend. And it’s going to get a whole lot worse in the next 6-8 weeks because the ignorant, the greedy, the entitled, and the selfish will not be denied their public and familial gatherings in the name of Christmas.

 

[PaulinVA]

Annie, think of it this way.

Bob attends Mass, because to him the risk is worth it.

He becomes infected by someone at Mass. Fine. His risk.

Before he knows he is positive but is contagious, he goes to the grocery store. He encounters Sally. Sally is immunocomprimised but has to eat, and limits her exposure to stores, etc.

She ends up in line with Bob, and he infects her.

Way to go, Bob.

 

[vz71]

And there we have it! The perfect excuse for the morality of euthanasia!

Not at all what I am saying.
Feel free to read the rest of the post.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

And there we have it! The perfect excuse for the morality of euthanasia!

Not at all what I am saying.
Feel free to read the rest of the post.

I know you are not saying it, but it still stands. The excuse for euthanasia is that they were going to die soon anyway, and hastening their death is not as bad as causing their death. Whether you intended to or not, you just handed them the excuse they needed. But if you really do believe hastening death is not as bad as causing death, what have you to say about Gov. Cuomo’s decision to hasten the deaths of those nursing home patients by forcing nursing homes to accept covid patients?

 

[Cathoholic]

I never said that anything should be permanent.

That’s WHY I said: “implicitly, tacitly”.

You ignored the principles I laid out.
If you want to refute my claim, it should be easy.

Instead of name-calling (“straw-man” or “Step back while your straw man explodes in flames.”), deal with the issues I raised and show me where I was wrong.

Here are the issues I raised again . . . .

But, have the persons these Mass-attenders encounter later decided to put themselves at risk by being close to these people?

No. Because they don’t know.

They are not going to “know” ten years from now either. (And if we continue to use that PRINCIPLE, this will permanently do-away with Mass ).

They also did not “know” last year at this time with influenza.

Thank you for implicitly, tacitly, admitting you think this should be permanent .

 

[PaulinVA]

You ignored the principles I laid out.
If you want to refute my claim, it should be easy.

Having trouble finding any “claim” in what you said.

How about this: people should be aware of others when they make mask or attendence decisions. If they engage in risky behavior they should limit their exposure to other people.