College women, take heed: Prioritize marriage and family!

[VonDerTann]

That is classic. You’ve come up with one the lawyer of 20+ years never heard before.

 

[VonDerTann]

I also realized that I was paying for the privilege of working and losing money to licensing, continuing ed, workplace wardrobe, gas, convenience foods, and, above all, day care.

–Sometimes that is in fact the case.

Also, Blackforest, we sometimes disagree on things, so why should today be different?

But your perspective is unique as it always is.

As to some having too much time, I respectfully note that this is not merely a “husband thing;” I meant what i said as to my wife seeing it too. Further, no SAHM has been born who thought she had too much time on her hands - she just did her kids’ homework and projects too, and dang, those are important!

Also, not really in reply, but just randomly: Affairs happen for many reasons. We know one SAHM who cheated on her high-powered doctor husband, with a SAHD who she met at a playground near school both had kids attending. I just speculate that things like that happen less (maybe not a lot less, but less) where both parents have similar “stuff going on.”

 

[Pattylt]

I don’t disagree with your comments as I know many SAHMs are what holds communities together.

I really think there are varieties of moms…SAHM and otherwise. I loved it when my kids were little. I was able to breastfeed both, take them to zoos and parks, swimming and activities. We’d take nature walks. The quality time and quantity time are immeasurable. I’m not a homeschooler. It’s not my area of knowledge and I had no desire to try it. When the kids were both in school full time, I went back to school myself. For me, this worked out perfectly.

I know moms that never went back to work, even after the kids were grown. Oh, they might take a part time job but nothing career wise and they were lost at office parties or adult gatherings. They just couldn’t relate to world without children. The best they accomplished were hobbies.

I also knew women more like you. Very involved in PTA which transitioned into other organizations or activities…some even leading to full time jobs or careers after the kids were gone. They never became incapable of holding a conversation with other adults.

Just like all our interests are different and our IQs are different, SAHMs are a variety, too. We do need to stop putting all the varieties into one box. We are as different as men are with careers, hobbies, activities, etc.

 

[neophyte]

It is ridiculous to state that women are “torn up inside” over opting for a career and a degree.

How arrogant of you to dismiss the testimony of the very women who say that they are.

 

[Sarcelle]

I remember back when I was a kid someone asked if she was a stay at home mom.

Her answer?

Sometimes

Sometimes she worked, sometimes she stayed at home.

What we do shouldn’t define us.

Things change all the time and what we do can change. Thing is, we have to be adaptable.

 

[Angel_Gabriel]

Any SAHMs care to chime in here?

Well I’m currently a full time SAHM…prior to COVID I worked part time (10-15 hrs a week). I do have free time each week but it’s not b/c I’m busy doing my kids’ chores and school projects. It’s mainly b/c I purposefully don’t over-schedule myself or my family. I consider myself the house manager and my job is to over see the kids doing their chores correctly and getting their school work done. They need to be taught how to clean and cook and eventually do laundry…you know, life skills . My husband is fully supportive of whatever route I want to go (SAHM or working part time or whatever). Honestly I HATE having to answer to a boss in addition to all the stuff that needs to get done here, so I’m just focusing on raising the kids and maybe in 5-10 year I will re-enter the work force part time. We have 4 kids ages 15 and a half down to 6 and a half. We have to live a bit more frugally but it’s doable. Luckily we live in a low COL area.

ETA; I should add here that I was completely burned out with my part time job (to the point I hated it) and was grateful for the break (the sliver lining in all this mess). I definitely needed to step back and take time off…it maybe a few years at least.

 

[VonDerTann]

Forgive me, but isn’t, just maybe, “hey SAHMs, help me out here and chime in!” maybe kinda dirty pool?!

By contrast I didn’t say, “overworked sole-provider husbands who don’t have the luxury of not working, help me out and chime in!”

Just sorta sayin…

 

[blackforest]

Further, no SAHM has been born who thought she had too much time on her hands - she just did her kids’ homework and projects too, and dang, those are important!

Oh, believe me, there’s plenty of helicopter parenting coming from those working outside the home. It just takes different forms.

My children are on their own for their projects. If parents feel a need to jump in, the teacher is assigning too much work. Otherwise, they’re not going to grow unless they can experience mistakes, lessons, joy and accomplishments . . . all on their own.

The affair scenario you describe - man cheating on SAHM because he holds financial sway over her - can take on various forms. If that same man were married to a woman working outside the home, somebody stooping to that level of sleazebaggery would surely find another way to control and manipulate his wife. All of these questions do not pertain to SAHMs vs. WOHMs so much as the maturity, stability, and holiness of a marriage.

Just like all our interests are different and our IQs are different, SAHMs are a variety, too.

That’s at the crux of it. The SAHM-vs.-WOHM pseudo-debate is about trade-offs that women make. I read one study indicating that WOHMs experience more anxiety and SAHMs experience more depression. Having done both, I can vouch for that. But I also see rewards in both. (PTA was just an example - homeschoolers don’t have that one on their plates. But I did get roped into Little League this year . . . )

 

[blackforest]

I just don’t always articulate myself well and also think it’s helpful to hear a variety of experiences.

I definitely needed to step back and take time off…it maybe a few years at least.

Isn’t it weird what an odd blessing this COVID mess has been? It’s given me time to re-evaluate where I stand professionally and even update my resume. We just need to go wherever God is calling us.

 

[VonDerTann]

Know what? You’re correct about covid.

 

[Pattylt]

PTA was just an example -

Not for me! Did it for five years and was a classroom volunteer, too! I enjoyed it and it is what made me realize I am not cut out for homeschooling!

 

[Elizabeth3]

For the record, NO ONE on this board should EVER say ANY profession contibutes nothing of value to society (except maybe abortionists).

By your comments related to SAHM’s, it seems you would very likely lump them in with the abortionists as well.

Thankfully others responded to your stereotypical depictions of SAHMs as some kind of vulnerable, helpless doormats who couldn’t possibly be interesting enough to keep their husbands from straying, have somehow lowered their IQ from spending large amounts of time around their children to the point they’ve morphed into someone who blankly stares at other adults and can’t possibly think of anything relevant to say, who don’t have anything to do to fill their time and aren’t creative enough to come up with something other than pasting and gluing their children’s art projects and who are so dependent they surely must be Oliver-Twist-like creatures when approaching their husbands to ask “Please sir, may I have a manicure?” Seriously?

 

[VonDerTann]

That’s pretty insulting.

Contribute nothing of value? No - but they often have an inflated sense of what they do IMHO. And neither do I adhere to this (false) narrative of SAHMs doing the Lord’s work just by being SAHMs, or the equally false narrative that career women hate their lives and need life coaches to reorient themselves.

And as I keep telling people, you’re free to act like this is coming from a guy - it really isn’t. I actually read it to DW as I typed and she added a few choice comments herself.

Sometimes the stereotype fits, Liz - and BTW, if you don’t work, you often do have to ask DH for manicure money, or $ for anything else (or he gives it; point is, you’re really dependent on him).

 

[Peonies]

Feeling a little bit like I am wading into the lion’s den, I will post my own experience.

I am a stay at home mom to a little girl who just had her second birthday. I am very grateful to be able to spend this time with her when she is small. There is nothing I would rather be doing than taking care of her. This does mean our bank account is smaller than it otherwise would be. My friends, with the exception of one, are all working moms. That is what works for their families and they certainly love their children. I do not think there is a one size fits all approach that fits all families.

 

[VonDerTann]

Know what, Peonies? I think you are absolutely correct.

BTW, I’m a pussycat, not a lion.

 

[jeannetherese]

Further, no SAHM has been born who thought she had too much time on her hands - she just did her kids’ homework and projects too, and dang, those are important!

It seems to me that the attitude expressed here really denigrates the labor involved in homemaking and child raising. My mom was a stay at home mom (until Catholic high school bills pushed her into part time labor in the waged labor sector). Even then, she and dad arranged their schedules so that there was always a parent in the home.
My parents did a fabulous job working together to support their family-and we did our own homework and instrument practice and helped with the household chores (once mom was working Saturdays, we did the cooking and much of the weekly cleaning work). Our home was spotless, our meals were made from scratch, we always had a parent in the home and mom and dad knew who was raising their kids: they were.
My parents were partners and still are. Dad earned the check, mom managed the finances and both had an allowance.
Trade offs? Lots of homemade casseroles to stretch that food budget, hand me downs were a fact of life, The only car was used, vacations were to relatives (no annual jaunts to exotic locations) and we kids had to put ourselves through college once that Catholic high school was over. We learned to work hard and that we could do without much considered essential by others. Everyone who wanted to put themselves through college and the only one who didn’t want to retired before turning 60 while the rest of us are still in the waged labor market. he’s quite intelligent, reads a lot, and, as a stay at home husband has no difficulty keeping up with his degreed and credentialed wife.
I am very grateful to my parents and my mom is the hardest working woman I know. She and dad have 60+ years together and their commitment to each other and to family is beautiful. They taught us, through example, about marriage and sacrifice and family.

 

[jeannetherese]

Not every woman want’s to be barefoot and pregnant and not every man wants a woman to be that type of servant.

Who said anything about being a servant? I was a stay at home mom for several years and I was not in a master/servant relationship. Catholic marriage involves labor and sacrifice but it does not call for one spouse to disrespect another, nor does it privilege a spouse who is participating in the waged labor sector, or bringing in a higher wage than his or her spouse.
Part of marriage discernment involves determining whether one is prepared to live a vocation in which one helps one’s spouse get to heaven. The children, fruit of the marriage, are souls entrusted to both parents and forming them properly is a tremendous responsibility.
We need to push back against pressures to denigrate these responsibilities. Secular marriage may be a financial contract; Catholic marriages are sacramental and involve different understandings.

 

[blackforest]

No - but they often have an inflated sense of what they do IMHO.

Yea, you got me. I love going to cocktail parties and bragging about how I spent the day scrubbing toilets, getting boogers wiped on my skirt, and involuntarily memorizing the lyrics to every Dora song. People are especially impressed when they learn I don’t get paid a dime for it.

and BTW, if you don’t work, you often do have to ask DH for manicure money, or $ for anything else (or he gives it; point is, you’re really dependent on him).

My husband told me that his paycheck is my paycheck. Why? Because SAHMs work their butts off. Any man who feels otherwise is a control freak who lacks any understanding of a healthy marriage.

 

[VonDerTann]

I love going to cocktail parties and bragging about how I spent the day scrubbing toilets, getting boogers wiped on my skirt, and involuntarily memorizing the lyrics to every Dora song. People are especially impressed when they learn I don’t get paid a dime for it.

-Here’s the irony, BF - You’re having that inflated sense of what what you do, RIGHT NOW! Lots and lots of SAHMs always say precisely what you say - yet very few, by contrast, acknowledge that doing these tasks also come hand-in-hand with other things like “not having to please a boss”; “being able to wear sweatpants all day and not care how you look;” “not needing to actually pay attention to updating professional qualifications” (maybe you did but many don’t)." Framed differently, many many SAHMs say “look how bad I have it!” but very few acknowledge that by and large being a SAHM is a million times easier than being a working parent…

—…Because working parents do everything you’ve identified - but we also work for a living, too. My wife and I have cleaned poop; been puked on; had boogers put in our hair, etc. I’ve fallen asleep at playgrounds - because I took my daughter there after working all day. My wife’s done all these things - while on 24-hour call from a hospital where her job protects the public health (this year between 3/15 & 4/15 she had one day at home, Easter Sunday). So spare us the drama about how bad SAHMs have it.

Do SAHMs work their butts off? Sure they do.

But working parents frequently - in fact invariably - outwork them. Very few SAHMs have the intellectual honesty to admit that.

My husband told me that his paycheck is my paycheck

–You’re absolutely correct - but it still places an awful lot of pressure on dad. Regardless of whether dad’s $ is also hers, the fact remains it’s not her earning it, it’s him.

 

[LilyM]

VonDerTann:

No - but they often have an inflated sense of what they do IMHO.

Yea, you got me. I love going to cocktail parties and bragging about how I spent the day scrubbing toilets, getting boogers wiped on my skirt, and involuntarily memorizing the lyrics to every Dora song. People are especially impressed when they learn I don’t get paid a dime for it.

and BTW, if you don’t work, you often do have to ask DH for manicure money, or $ for anything else (or he gives it; point is, you’re really dependent on him).

My husband told me that his paycheck is my paycheck. Why? Because SAHMs work their butts off. Any man who feels otherwise is a control freak who lacks any understanding of a healthy marriage.

True… until maybe he strongly disagrees with how you spend “your” money … or maybe finds someone else he thinks.is more worth spending “your” money on …or maybe just flat out resents being the only one making a financial contribution …