I haven’t gone back to check Strongs - but I agree with this “statement” except that there remains a law (law of Christ) written in our hearts which is the 10 commandments (the sabbath being fulfilled in our rest in Christ but the solemnity of that day having been transferred to the Lord’s Day - Sunday). Jesus expanded upon our understanding of the Decalogue in the Beattutudes.An addition to my previous post.
(Rom 10:4) For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Christ ( His perfect righteousness) is the end ( termination) of the law ( legalistic efforts to establish our own righteousness by our own works - this was the old covenant experience), so that there may be righteousness ( the only true righteousness) for everyone who believes ( the new covenant experience). Christ ended the 613 commandments at the cross ( (Col 2:14) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.
Do you like Strong’s Concordance?
written with love
Craig - I know you Know I agree with you on this - aren’t we just debating at this point whether the Sabbath is “fulfilled” - why not get right to the point - With love, your posts seem somewhat circular and not to the point?Hi Crimson
With your response… then do you agree that the 10 commandments given to Moses are to be obeyed today?
written with love
I agree we can leave the Decalogue prior to Mt. Sinai. Strong’s concordance is widely accepted among many theologians.Craig - I’m not sure where you are “going” with this inquiry, but for a Jew, before Christ, the only path to righteousness was obeying the mosaic law. But I’d suggest no-one was capable of fully obeying the law and thus in the old covenant God created a means of atonement to cover our sins. See Romans 2:25-26. "Circumcision indeed is of value if you obey the law; but if you break the law, your circumcision becomes uncircumcision."
In the new covenant we are subject to God’s law - but Christ fulfilled the mosaic law, what remains is the Decalogue (this is the teaching of the Catholic Church) written into our hearts - yet, as I’ve noted now in several replies, the Sabbath (which is what you seem to be debating here) has been fullfilled each “Saturday” and each and every “day” in our rest in Christ.
As I must be missing your point - what exactly is your point (that you are trying to make) as we both agree the Decalogue continues (but not the rest of the mosaic law) and both agree the Sabbath is part of the Decalogue - but perhaps disagree on whether it has been fulfilled?
I disagree with your assertion that the mosaic law (including Sabbath observance) existed prior to Sinai - but I think that is a red herring for what you are really “preaching” here - which is trying to build your case that 7th day Sabbath observance is an ongoing “law” which has not been fulfilled (right?)
Brian , this was a response to crimson.Craig - I know you Know I agree with you on this - aren’t we just debating at this point whether the Sabbath is “fulfilled” - why not get right to the point - With love, your posts seem somewhat circular and not to the point?
With loving respect… I wish I could talk to you face to face. If you change the Sabbath “day” commandment to the Lord’s day, then you are changing the original meaning of the Decalogue/ Sabbath commandment that God wrote with His own finger in stone.I haven’t gone back to check Strongs - but I agree with this “statement” except that there remains a law (law of Christ) written in our hearts which is the 10 commandments (the sabbath being fulfilled in our rest in Christ but the solemnity of that day having been transferred to the Lord’s Day - Sunday). Jesus expanded upon our understanding of the Decalogue in the Beattutudes.
Blessings,
Brian
As we’ve discussed before - the “Sabbath” is and will always be Saturday - however, this commandment is fulfilled in our rest in Christ on “Saturday” and every day. Separate and apart from the Sabbath commandment (now fulfilled in our rest in Christ), the early Church in apostolic times began meeting on Sunday in fellowship and for the Eucharist. This weekly celebration came to be known as the Lord’s day. The Church adopted a level of solemnity for the Lord’s Day similar (but not identical) to the solemnity and requirements of the Sabbath (which has been fulfilled in our rest in Christ.With loving respect… I wish I could talk to you face to face. If you change the Sabbath “day” commandment to the Lord’s day, then you are changing the original meaning of the Decalogue/ Sabbath commandment that God wrote with His own finger in stone.
No - actually - the Sabbath was given as a weekly opportunity to try to enter into God’s rest. The epistle of Hebrews talks about this but tells us Israel never entered that “rest” out of disobedience. Yet, after Christ, there remains a sabbath rest in Christ, “today”, every day.Were not all in the OT to have a Sabbath/rest in God for all seven days of the week?
Jesus and Mary also followed all 613 commandments of the Mosaic law - are we to do that as well? We would if the law was not fulfilled by Christ.Are we to be like Christ and follow in all His ways. Jesus, mother Mary, Paul all were obedient to the Sabbath Day. Paul and Mary were obedient to the Sabbath after the crucifixion of Christ.
Again, the Sabbath was not transferred - You’ve stated it that way now a number of times in private correspondence and on this thread (presumably because your church defines their understanding gof Catholic doctrine that way). That is a strawman. Christ told us the law would be “fulfilled” (Matt 5:17) and so it was. The moral law was written in our hearts and the Sabbath “rest” is observed by believers by their “rest” in Christ. This is restoration to fellowship with God that Adam and Eve enjoyed in the Garden of Eden - that was “perpetual rest” in God. In fact, this is how Jews (I’m a Jewish believer, perhaps enrichening my understanding of this in the same way) view the Sabbath - as a “glimpse” of what it was like in the Garden of eden and what it will be like in heaven. Lo and behold - for those in “Christ” we are in his rest - just like in the garden of eden - and like we will experience in a most glorious and perfect way in heaven.Throughout history the 10 commandments were and are the most important commands given by God. Don’t you think that Jesus, while in the flesh, would have stated quite clearly
if the Sabbath day of Saturday was going to be transferred to Sunday after His crucifixion?
Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that the Catholic Church teaches that the 10 commandments were abolished at the cross and then somehow ( don’t mean to sound mean) reintroduced in the bible after the death of Christ.
The Catholic Church teaches that the 10 commandments continues to be applicable to all believers. In fact, a significant part of the Catechism (you might enjoy reading it through rather than cherry picking - even if you disagree, it will give you a better understanding of Catholic doctrine) is devoted to it.To summarize, the Decalogue ( 10 commandments) are still to be observed, however, when Christ was crucified, the Sabbath day commandment no longer has to be observed?
Re:judging- if I see a brother committing adultery should I not inform him and explain whatThe Catholic Church teaches that the 10 commandments continues to be applicable to all believers. In fact, a significant part of the Catechism (you might enjoy reading it through rather than cherry picking - even if you disagree, it will give you a better understanding of Catholic doctrine) is devoted to it.
Whether one believes this is because the law as “nailed to the cross” and a new law, the law of Christ (which includes the 10 commandments expanded by the beatitudes) was established, or because one believes that the mosaic law was fulfilled except for the personal moral laws embedded in the 10 commandments (9 - with the Sabbath fulfilled in our rest and the pattern of the Sabbath repeated now on the Lord’s day) is a bit of a red herring. Either way we end up in the same place - with the moral law continuing written into our hearts.
Again - getting to the “point” - I think you are trying with all these posts to ultimately make a point that you believe the Sabbath observance continues as a commandment on Saturday - God bless you if that if your belief and you are free and have liberty to worship that way if you like (per Paul’s Epistle, if you do it for the glory of God, that is wonderful) and no-one should judge you for it. By the same token, you or others should not judge Christian brothers and sisters who do not observe a Saturday sabbath (in the way you do - we do in our rest in Christ) and choose to honor the Lord on the Lord’s day in fellowship, love and sacrifice.
Blessings,
Brian
But the writer in Hebrew goes on to say “today” (we rest every day).I think we have come to the conclusion on this thread that the Decalogue ( 10 commandments given by Moses) are to be observed and obeyed today.
My belief is that the Sabbath Day ( Saturday) is one of those commandments.
Heb. 4:9 states that the Sabbath day ( “rest” - sabbatismos) remains for the people of God.
Verse 10 refers to the 7th day. We are to cease from our works (on the seventh day), just as God ceased from His works ( on the seventh day - creation week)
Your thoughts…But the writer in Hebrew goes on to say “today” (we rest every day).
So, we agree to disagree.
An interesting perspective which I disagree with. Do you think Adam and Eve “rested” on the Sabbath even when they were constantly in the presences of God in the Garden of Eden and constantly in his fellowship and “rest”?Your thoughts…
- Purpose of the Passage: Hebrews 3:7–4:11 emphasizes the need for perseverance and faithfulness in the Christian community. The discussion about God’s rest is subordinate to that more specific goal and is used to motivate believers to be faithful. That’s why there is not a detailed discussion on the nature of the rest God offered His people in the past but is still available “today.” It also clarifies the emphasis found throughout Hebrews 4 on the problem of unbelief and disobedience and the need for diligence in the Christian life. The passage is not a theological exposition of the typological fulfillment of the Sabbath, or of the nature of the Sabbath, or of the eschatological rest. It is simply an exhortation to faithfulness.
2. God’s Rest: The Old Testament contains a theology of God’s rest in addition to the theology of the Sabbath that deals with God’s promise of rest to His people in the land and to His own resting in the temple. Psalm 95:11 demonstrates that the promise of God’s rest found in the Old Testament was not fulfilled because of the unbelief of His people. Therefore, Hebrews does not identify the “rest” with the entrance into the land of Canaan. Consequently, the rest remains to be fulfilled (Heb. 4:1, 9) and believers are exhorted to make every effort to enter this rest (verse 11). Yet the rest also seems to be a present experience (verse 3). Although that rest is not clearly defined in the text, it probably designates the blessing of salvation we enjoy now as we wait for its consummation.
3. Role of the Sabbath in the Passage: Hebrews is not equating the Sabbath rest with the eschatological rest. It states that God’s eschatological rest, like the Sabbath, has been available since He finished His work of creation. The Sabbath rest also illustrates the nature of the rest that is still available as a cessation from one’s works. Hebrews 4:10 uses the Sabbath of Genesis 2:2 as a model for its understanding of the eschatological rest. The enjoyment of both the eschatological rest and the Sabbath require ceasing from work. The works Hebrews refers to are not specifically identified, but it could be suggested that contextually they are not the works of the law. The Pauline discussion of justification by faith versus the works of the law is foreign to the argument of Hebrews. One could suggest that the works mentioned are works of rebellion and unfaithfulness (cf. Heb. 4:6).
4. A Rest Remains: The rest that remains (sabbatismos, “Sabbath observance, sabbath rest” [verse 9]) is the rest that was left unfulfilled in the Old Testament (the katapausis, “rest, resting place” [verses 1, 6]). But the word sabbatismos (sabbath rest) makes its own contribution to the discussion in that it clearly defines the eschatological rest (katapausis) as God’s Sabbathlike rest. That is to say, the seventh-day Sabbath rest illustrates the nature of the eschatological rest. This suggests that for the author of Hebrews the theology of the Sabbath was so meaningful that he utilized it to interpret God’s eschatological rest. The context does not support the suggestion that the Sabbath commandment had been fulfilled in the rest of salvation that Christ brought, making it unnecessary for Christians to obey it.
The offer of the Sabbathlike rest in the Old Testament did not set aside the literal observance of the Sabbath commandment (Isa. 56; 66:23); likewise, the eschatological rest is like the Sabbath but does not replace it. Besides, entering God’s rest in Hebrews 4 does not mean that the Sabbath is superseded. To enter God’s rest requires only perseverance and faithfulness, ceasing from our works, not the rejection of obedience to the Sabbath commandment. There is nothing in the text concerning a new type of Sabbath observance that replaces the literal observance of the fourth commandment.
by : Ángel Manuel Rodríguez
I don’t know, check Wikipedia or some other source. Why do you ask?where did the word Sunday originate?
When Jesus was asked what the most important commandment is, he didn’t respond with the 10 commandments.Throughout history the 10 commandments were and are the most important commands given by God.
Nope, not taught by the Catholic Church.Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that the Catholic Church teaches that the 10 commandments were abolished at the cross and then somehow ( don’t mean to sound mean) reintroduced in the bible after the death of Christ.
Ok, thank you, now I am clear. So the New Covenant is the obedience of the 10 commandments given by God to Moses less the Sabbath Day commandment. The Sabbath Day ( Saturday) commandment , is now The Lord’s day ( Sunday). So the Sabbath Day commandment was a shadow of things to come?Nope, not taught by the Catholic Church.
I don’t understand, could you please explain?When Jesus was asked what the most important commandment is, he didn’t respond with the 10 commandments.
Craig - yet again, the Sabbath Commandment is fulfilled in Christ - the Lord’s Day is not the Sabbath and not technically a fulfilling of the Sabbath commandment, fulfilled in Christ, but the solemnity of the Sabbath is observed on the Lord’s day.Ok, thank you, now I am clear. So the New Covenant is the obedience of the 10 commandments given by God to Moses less the Sabbath Day commandment. The Sabbath Day ( Saturday) commandment , is now The Lord’s day ( Sunday). So the Sabbath Day commandment was a shadow of things to come?
written with love
Most definitely, I believe they observed the Sabbath day in the garden. God worked for six days and then rested on the seventh. God did not have to rest. Since God created man in His image. God created the seventh Sabbath day for man, just like He created the other six days for man - Gen 1:26.An interesting perspective which I disagree with. Do you think Adam and Eve “rested” on the Sabbath even when they were constantly in the presences of God in the Garden of Eden and constantly in his fellowship and “rest”?
Interesting - I see the garden of eden as “perpetual rest” and “perpetual fellowship” with God - all “resting in his eternal 7th day”. I see banishment of the garen of eden as banishment from God’s fellowship and from his “rest” - the Sabbath was given as a way for Israel to fellowship with God on the 7th day as a forshadowing and glimpse of what it would be like when they again enjoyed his fellowship. That is what happens when the Holy Spirit enters our heart and we accept Christ.Most definitely, I believe they observed the Sabbath day in the garden. God worked for six days and then rested on the seventh. God did not have to rest. Since God created man in His image. God created the seventh Sabbath day for man, just like He created the other six days for man - Gen 1:26.