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diggerdomer
Guest
No, I simply said your idea that the 10 commandments were abolished at the Cross is not part of Catholic teaching. I may be wrong, of course. Can you show us where such is taught?
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D
diggerdomer
Guest
You claimed that throughout history, when asked what the most important commands of God were, the answer is the 10 commandments.
Did I misread your post?
My point was that Jesus did not answer that question with the 10 commandments. See Mark 12 for example.
C
Church_Militant
Guest
Before the New Testament was even finished the early church had already begun to worship on the 1st day of the week in honor of the Resurrection of Our Lord Jesus Christ.
We ceased to be Jews by virtue of the New Testament and by having been thrown out of the temples and persecuted by the Jews & Romans.
Matthew 28:1
And in the end of the sabbath, when it began to dawn towards the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalen and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre.
Mark 16:2
And very early in the morning, the first day of the week, they come to the sepulchre, the sun being now risen.
Mark 16:9
But he rising early the first day of the week, appeared first to Mary Magdalen, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
Luke 24:1
And on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came to the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared.
John 20:1
And on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalen cometh early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre; and she saw the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
These verses show that it was already the practice of the Early Church.
Acts Of Apostles 20:7
And on the first day of the week, when we were assembled to break bread, Paul discoursed with them, being to depart on the morrow: and he continued his speech until midnight.
1 Corinthians 16:2
On the first day of the week let every one of you put apart with himself, laying up what it shall well please him; that when I come, the collections be not then to be made.
We ceased to be Jews by virtue of the New Testament and by having been thrown out of the temples and persecuted by the Jews & Romans.
Matthew 28:1
And in the end of the sabbath, when it began to dawn towards the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalen and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre.
Mark 16:2
And very early in the morning, the first day of the week, they come to the sepulchre, the sun being now risen.
Mark 16:9
But he rising early the first day of the week, appeared first to Mary Magdalen, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
Luke 24:1
And on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came to the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared.
John 20:1
And on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalen cometh early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre; and she saw the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
These verses show that it was already the practice of the Early Church.
Acts Of Apostles 20:7
And on the first day of the week, when we were assembled to break bread, Paul discoursed with them, being to depart on the morrow: and he continued his speech until midnight.
1 Corinthians 16:2
On the first day of the week let every one of you put apart with himself, laying up what it shall well please him; that when I come, the collections be not then to be made.
B
BTTG
Guest
Jesus did answer the question with ALL the law. When we read Mark 12, we see the first commandment incorporates the first 4 commandments ( about loving God) and the second commandment incorporates the other 6 commandments ( loving our fellow man). Notice mark 12:29, Jesus starts his answer to the questions with…" The first of ALL the commandments is…". Then in Mat. 22:36-40, Jesus says the first great commandment and the second commandment… " on these two commandments hang ALL the Law…"
The 10 commandments are the greatest command of God.
B
BTTG
Guest
Hi Brian
Could you please respond to my previous post as I copied below. thanks Brian
written with love
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbinson
Craig - you lost me on this follow up inquiry to what I hoped was a clear answer - no, I do not believe that Jesus taught in the NT (nor did the epistles teach) observance, after Christ’s death and resurrection, of the Sabbath Day commandment. As you certainly have something in mind, please tell me what verses you are thinking about - if I’m missing something, I’ll try sincerely to be as responsive as possible.
Blessings,
Brian
**My response ** Brian… I was not trying to be smart. I just wanted an answer for the verse…(Joh 14:15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Just to recap. the " commandments" in this verse include the Decalogue, including the Sabbath day ?
Could you please respond to my previous post as I copied below. thanks Brian
written with love
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbinson
Craig - you lost me on this follow up inquiry to what I hoped was a clear answer - no, I do not believe that Jesus taught in the NT (nor did the epistles teach) observance, after Christ’s death and resurrection, of the Sabbath Day commandment. As you certainly have something in mind, please tell me what verses you are thinking about - if I’m missing something, I’ll try sincerely to be as responsive as possible.
Blessings,
Brian
**My response ** Brian… I was not trying to be smart. I just wanted an answer for the verse…(Joh 14:15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Just to recap. the " commandments" in this verse include the Decalogue, including the Sabbath day ?
B
BTTG
Guest
Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut.
Please read the previous posts and you will find that I have commented and disproved with biblical references why the verses you quoted provide no evidence that the first day of the week is the day of worship.
written with love
R
Robbinson
Guest
We are to keep all of God’s commandments, until they are fulfilled. When Jesus spoke these words, the commandments included the entire mosaic law - After his sacrificial death, the mosaic law was fulfilled. The moral law continues. That is the Decalogue, I believe, except the Sabbath commandment continues but is fulfilled in our rest in Christ. Jesus also expanded upon our understanding of the moral law within the decalogue through the Beattitudes.
Blessings,
Brian
D
diggerdomer
Guest
Then why didn’t Jesus just say that?
C
Church_Militant
Guest
Sure ya did…
The fact is there in the last two passages especially. The SDA and other such errant types do some serious mental and scriptural gymnastics to try to make their position seem righteous, when in fact it isn’t.I’ll stick with what the Bible actually says and what the Church has taught and practiced for 2,000 as opposed to all that gymnastics, especially since it’s from the same group that has at least twice violated scripture by predicting the day and time of Christ’s return and their false prophecy failed.
What does the Word of God tell us about such “prophets”?
Deuteronomy 18:[20] But the prophet, who being corrupted with pride, shall speak in my name things that I did not command him to say, or in the name of strange gods, shall be slain. [21] And if in silent thought thou answer: How shall I know the word that the Lord hath not spoken? [22] Thou shalt have this sign: Whatsoever that same prophet foretelleth in the name of the Lord, and it cometh not to pass: that thing the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath forged it by the pride of his mind: and therefore thou shalt not fear him.
C
Church_Militant
Guest
Yeah, he straight up contradicts Our Lord Himself there doesn’t he?http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/corona_stellarum/Smilies/AddEmoticons04279.gif
Matthew 22:[36] Master, which is the greatest commandment in the law? [37] Jesus said to him: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind. [38] This is the greatest and the first commandment. [39] And the second is like to this: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [40] On these two commandments dependeth the whole law and the prophets.
B
BTTG
Guest
Hi Brian,
Just to make sure I understand you. The verse that Jesus spoke…Joh 14:15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.
When Jesus spoke these words, the commandments include the Sabbath Day.
Is this correct?
written with love
B
BTTG
Guest
I will ask Jesus when I see Him.
B
BTTG
Guest
Sorry, I do not understand what you mean by your remarks?
R
Robbinson
Guest
Of course - as well as the other 612 commandments in the Torah. But, and its a big but - at Jesus death and sacrifice, he “fulfilled” the mosaic law - what is left as “commandments” is the law of Christ, the moral law (10 commandments - and, once again (you keep ignoring this point as though its never been made, the Sabbath commandment is fulfilled in our rest in Christ).
B
BTTG
Guest
I know that you must be getting frustrated with me.
However, now that we agree that the Sabbath Day (Saturday) is included ( yes with the 612 other commands as well ) in the verse is important. (Joh 14:15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Let’s read… (1Jn 5:3) “For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments…”
Notice how close the words are in the two verses. Does the “commandments” in 1 Jn 5:3 include the Sabbath Day/Saturday ?
written with love
B
BTTG
Guest
I asked you to open your minds to the Holy Spirit.
commenting on the following two verses.
(Luk 16:16) The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. (Luk 16:17) And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
(Mat 5:17) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (Mat 5:18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
The verses from Luke and Matthew parallel one another.
Let’s take a look at the Luke passages first. Are the law and the prophets terminated when John began his ministry? No. For until the ministry of John , all men had were “the law and the prophets”. The gospels did not come to replace what Moses and the prophets had written, but rather to reinforce, to confirm the writings. That is why the verse continues to read that just because John came not one tittle of the law is to fail ( including the Sabbath day commandment).
the same understanding is read in Mat., Jesus did not come to destroy, put an end to, the law and the prophets, Jesus came to reinforce, to confirm what was said in the OT. And until heaven and earth pass away the law shall not be changed. Jesus magnified what the law taught.
written with love
commenting on the following two verses.
(Luk 16:16) The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. (Luk 16:17) And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
(Mat 5:17) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (Mat 5:18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
The verses from Luke and Matthew parallel one another.
Let’s take a look at the Luke passages first. Are the law and the prophets terminated when John began his ministry? No. For until the ministry of John , all men had were “the law and the prophets”. The gospels did not come to replace what Moses and the prophets had written, but rather to reinforce, to confirm the writings. That is why the verse continues to read that just because John came not one tittle of the law is to fail ( including the Sabbath day commandment).
the same understanding is read in Mat., Jesus did not come to destroy, put an end to, the law and the prophets, Jesus came to reinforce, to confirm what was said in the OT. And until heaven and earth pass away the law shall not be changed. Jesus magnified what the law taught.
written with love
R
Robbinson
Guest
Craig - I’m really going to insist you answer this question “this time” - as this exchange (your asking the same question about the sabbath and my asking this,still unanswered question - has now occurred several times).
Are you suggesting that 1 Jn 5:3 means we are to follow the entire mosaic law now/still (all 613 commandments) or are you trying to suggest it show us to observe the “Sabbath” but not the balance of them - and if so, why and what is the basis of the distinction?
I’ll make it easy for you by telling you again, what I think - I think the mosaic law was fuflled, except the moral law, which is the Decalogue - but that within the Decalogue, the Sabbath is fulfilled in our rest in Christ. So now respond please to the question and to my response - if you would, rather than merely repeating the same question? Deal?
R
Robbinson
Guest
And I’ve addressed this specific point several times as well in this thread Craig - I wonder if you even read the replies or whether you just have a “play book” of the same quesitons?
So - once again:
- The mosiac law (all of it) (all 613 commandments) applied for John the baptist, and for all of us (including Jesus) until his death;
- At the cross, “Jesus fulfilled” the mosaic law (“it is finished”) nailing the ordinances to the cross and ushering in the new covenant with the moral law (10 commandments, I believe) written in our hearts - except that the Sabbath (still a commandment) is fulflilled by our rest in Christ. Jesus expanded upon the understanding the Decalogue (actually 9 of the 10 - not the Sabbath) in the Beattitudes.
Blessings,
Brian
B
BTTG
Guest
No, we are not to follow the 613 commandments, but we are to follow the “original” Decalogue given to Moses without any changes. We know from scripture that the 613 commandments were nailed to the cross. Therefore, the " commandments" in 1 John are stating that the Decalogue, including the Sabbath day is to be observed if we love God. When Jesus said the “law” written in our hearts. You are stating that the “law” is now not the Sabbath Day, but the Sabbath rest in Jesus. Therefore, the “day” of the Sabbath is gone, but the “rest” in Christ is present every day. Do you really belief that when Jesus made the statement of the “law in our hearts”, that He was implying that the Sabbath Day will not be observed anymore? If this was the case, I am sure that the scriptures would be very clear on the removal of the Sabbath day, just like the scriptures repeatedly inform us on the state of circumcision.
written with love
B
BTTG
Guest
The Christian Jews, I believe did not fall away. History tells us that 10,s of thousands of Jews were killed by the Romans.
Also, you are assuming that " heaven and earth" passed away with the destruction of Jerusalem. It also could mean at the end of the world that the earth and heavens pass away.
You say that the Sabbath commandment is still observed, as in our rest in Christ. However, this is changing the meaning of the Sabbath commandment. The Sabbath commandment was specific to a “day”, and also to rest in God on this day.
Does Jesus anywhere in scripture state before His crucifixion, that the Sabbath day , will now be observed , not as a “day” , but as a “rest” in Him.
As I stated before, Jesus did not have to talk about the Sabbath day, as true believers in Christ were all ready observing the Sabbath day. Jesus defended the Sabbath day during His ministry.
would you please provide reference to heaven and earth passing away in Revelations. thank you
written with love
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