Commandments

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And I’ve addressed this specific point several times as well in this thread Craig - I wonder if you even read the replies or whether you just have a “play book” of the same quesitons?

So - once again:
  1. The mosiac law (all of it) (all 613 commandments) applied for John the baptist, and for all of us (including Jesus) until his death;
  2. At the cross, “Jesus fulfilled” the mosaic law (“it is finished”) nailing the ordinances to the cross and ushering in the new covenant with the moral law (10 commandments, I believe) written in our hearts - except that the Sabbath (still a commandment) is fulflilled by our rest in Christ. Jesus expanded upon the understanding the Decalogue (actually 9 of the 10 - not the Sabbath) in the Beattitudes.
I’d also suggest that a close read of the book of revelation suggests that the “end of the world” (heaven and earth passaway) was fulfilled, in a meaningful way with the destruction of the second temple. To Israel, the “Temple” was the world and an image of “heaven” - this might explain, in part, why Jewish christians continued to follow the mosaic law (albeit not in terms of “justification”) until the temple was destroyed, but quickly fell away (for the most part) thereafter. Just a thought.

Blessings,

Brian
Why the Jews " fell away quickly"… author unknown…

It was the year A.D. 49 when Emperor Claudius expelled the Jews from Rome since they rioted constantly at the instigation of Chrestus. The fact that on this occasion converted Jews like Aquila and Priscilla were expelled from the city together with the Jews (Acts 18:2) shows that the Romans did not distinguish between the Christians and the Jews. However, fourteen years later Nero identified the Christians as being a separate entity and well distinguished from the Jews. The political structure of Rome also gave both Jews and Gentiles good reason to separate themselves from one another which is something that had not happened elsewhere.
Towards the end of the first century, relations between the Jews and the Roman Empire had deteriorated seriously. The Romans had previously recognized Judaism as a legitimate religion and had even shown a degree of respect and even admiration for the religious principles of the Jews. But the Jewish wars that began around 66 A.D. changed all that.
The statistics of the bloodshed provided by contemporary historians is evidence of the Romans anger and vengeance upon the Jews. Tacitus (A.D. 56-117) gives an estimate of 600,000 Jewish fatalities from the A.D. 70 war. Under Vespasian (A.D. 69-79) both the Sanhedrin and the office of the High Priest were abolished and worship at the temple was forbidden. And Hadrian (A.D. 117-138) outlawed the practice of the Jewish religion.
These circumstances prompted Christians to develop a new identity which was not only characterized by a negative attitude toward the Jews, but also by the substitution of Jewish religious customs with new ones. So this “anti-Judaism” resulted in great pressure upon the early Christian Church to move away from anything that “appeared Jewish” including the Sabbath. Since Sunday was already popular throughout the Roman Empire as a day for sun worship, some Christian leaders began shifting from Sabbath to Sunday.
 
And I’ve addressed this specific point several times as well in this thread Craig - I wonder if you even read the replies or whether you just have a “play book” of the same quesitons?

So - once again:
  1. The mosiac law (all of it) (all 613 commandments) applied for John the baptist, and for all of us (including Jesus) until his death;
  2. At the cross, “Jesus fulfilled” the mosaic law (“it is finished”) nailing the ordinances to the cross and ushering in the new covenant with the moral law (10 commandments, I believe) written in our hearts - except that the Sabbath (still a commandment) is fulflilled by our rest in Christ. Jesus expanded upon the understanding the Decalogue (actually 9 of the 10 - not the Sabbath) in the Beattitudes.
I’d also suggest that a close read of the book of revelation suggests that the “end of the world” (heaven and earth passaway) was fulfilled, in a meaningful way with the destruction of the second temple. To Israel, the “Temple” was the world and an image of “heaven” - this might explain, in part, why Jewish christians continued to follow the mosaic law (albeit not in terms of “justification”) until the temple was destroyed, but quickly fell away (for the most part) thereafter. Just a thought.

Blessings,

Brian
Brian, please provide scriptural support of why the Sabbath now, means “rest in Christ”? thank you
 
Jesus did answer the question with ALL the law. When we read Mark 12, we see the first commandment incorporates the first 4 commandments ( about loving God) and the second commandment incorporates the other 6 commandments ( loving our fellow man). Notice mark 12:29, Jesus starts his answer to the questions with…" The first of ALL the commandments is…". Then in Mat. 22:36-40, Jesus says the first great commandment and the second commandment… " on these two commandments hang ALL the Law…"

The 10 commandments are the greatest command of God.
That’s what you said, but even your own scripture quote contradicts what you said which is what we pointed out to you.
Sorry, I do not understand what you mean by your remarks?
Yeah, he straight up contradicts Our Lord Himself there doesn’t he?http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h244/corona_stellarum/Smilies/AddEmoticons04279.gif

Matthew 22:[36] Master, which is the greatest commandment in the law? [37] Jesus said to him: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind. [38] This is the greatest and the first commandment. [39] And the second is like to this: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [40] On these two commandments dependeth the whole law and the prophets.
We have showed you scripture that clearly tells us that the New Testament church worshiped on the 1st day of the week because of the resurrection an since we are not Jews, the sabbath (or us) is Sunday.
 
I will ask Jesus when I see Him.
Then why did you post here, rather than just asking Jesus when you see Him?

But if you sincerely want to discuss things before that event, why not respond to my question to you in my post 258?
 
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind.

Just quoted, comes to mind, isn’t this the one we all fail at entirely and completely most???

You see it say’s the stipulation “whole!!!”, not part, not some of the time, not mostly and have weak moments where God is not on your mind, soul, heart…how can we honestly do this and do this with completes and absolutes. No matter how resourceful, no matter how capable of focus you are, doing any train of thought, all day, every day…you are going, we are forced to realize that it is an impossible task. So, here we are debating over a possible one, something far easier in our grasp, and still not come to terms upon it…

Breaking it down, we just need a single day off per week to function, it’s just how we were built, how he designed man to be down to the genetic coding, the same as we require sleep, food, water, etc. it’s for our own good, thus the reason God states, this is the day for you to stop your toil, to spend time with me, and to enjoy the fruits of your labors. When it comes down to it, in that context, it makes perfect sense, secular, or otherwise, it’s just beneficial for any human being. This is the spirit this one was created, and moving into it further, we are also creatures of habit, schedules, etc. and require some thought into our actions being done for us, since by us, with our weak nature, the typical person doesn’t have the inner self regulated system that defines which day of the week to schedule anything without a calender and something to remind us upon with in it.

The Sabbath never actually ended, but it just became something that got shoved around a bit, on the specifics of the day, it’s the spirit of the day that matters, and that very much is typically not observed by most believers, and in fact, many non believers do a better job at it then us simply because they are enjoying their weekend off, yet here we are supposed to take our time off to focus on the Lord…

Where I tend to lean towards when I can,. Saturday “and” Sunday are observed as Holy Days, and both are about worship and study, focusing on God, and not toiling with work. This is not at all something every single person can do due to their scheduling and workload, but personally, I feel, if one dedicates either day “Saturday, or Sunday”, to not labor and focus on God, one doesn’t go Wrong, for Christ ushered in the resurrection, and God rested from his labors, different days, same meaning “To bring life from nothingness”, and so they can and are interchangeable at this time, … kind of gives new meaning to Jesus calling himself Lord of the Sabbath huh? 🙂 I can speculate further on this as well, the exact time of Jesus’s resurrection and the correlation to the Sabbath ending and the new day beginning, … I can almost bet our Lord did not pick some abjuratory random time on that one!
 
No, we are not to follow the 613 commandments, but we are to follow the “original” Decalogue given to Moses without any changes. We know from scripture that the 613 commandments were nailed to the cross. Therefore, the " commandments" in 1 John are stating that the Decalogue, including the Sabbath day is to be observed if we love God. When Jesus said the “law” written in our hearts. You are stating that the “law” is now not the Sabbath Day, but the Sabbath rest in Jesus. Therefore, the “day” of the Sabbath is gone, but the “rest” in Christ is present every day. Do you really belief that when Jesus made the statement of the “law in our hearts”, that He was implying that the Sabbath Day will not be observed anymore? If this was the case, I am sure that the scriptures would be very clear on the removal of the Sabbath day, just like the scriptures repeatedly inform us on the state of circumcision.

written with love
Craig

I don’t believe there is any basis for breaking the Mosaic Law into two distinct parts (i) the Decalogue, on the one hand, and (ii) the balance of the 613 commandments in the Torah on the other. They are “one” law and all form a part of God’s commandments in the Torah under the mosaic law. In fact, not only have the Jews always treated them as part of “one” law, but this concept of the need for Jews to keep the “entire” law was repeated in the New Testament.

"For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it." (Jas 2:10-11)

The word translated “law” here is νόμος (“nomos”). This Greek word for “law” or “scriptures” . This word appears 194 times in the NT and by context, the substantial majority of uses clearly refer not to the “Decalogue” but to other aspects of the mosaic law. One of numerous examples is: ** Luke 2:23: “as it is written in the law of the Lord, “Every male that opens the womb shall be called holy to the Lord””. **Here the “law” is not referring to the Decalogue but to other aspects of the Mosaic Law (another of the 613 commandments) which together with the Decalogue make “one” law.

Its important that you understand this principle because it will effect your entire line of argument/discussion regarding the Sabbath.

This is why I believe that when God said the law was nailed to the cross, he meant the “entire law” - However, the Decalogue (10 commandments) does continue as part of the law of Christ - the moral law written in our hearts. Why? because the balance of the law was “fulfilled” in Christ and what is left is the moral law which defines our attitude and behavior. I agree with you (once again - I really want to reiterate to you that I agree with you) that the Sabbath “commandment” continues - Our disagreement is on how we are following that “commandment” today after Christ. I believe that commandment is being fulfilled by believers in their “rest” in Christ on Saturday and every day.

Blessings,

Brian
 
The Christian Jews, I believe did not fall away. History tells us that 10,s of thousands of Jews were killed by the Romans.

Also, you are assuming that " heaven and earth" passed away with the destruction of Jerusalem. It also could mean at the end of the world that the earth and heavens pass away.

You say that the Sabbath commandment is still observed, as in our rest in Christ. However, this is changing the meaning of the Sabbath commandment. The Sabbath commandment was specific to a “day”, and also to rest in God on this day.

Does Jesus anywhere in scripture state before His crucifixion, that the Sabbath day , will now be observed , not as a “day” , but as a “rest” in Him.

As I stated before, Jesus did not have to talk about the Sabbath day, as true believers in Christ were all ready observing the Sabbath day. Jesus defended the Sabbath day during His ministry.

would you please provide reference to heaven and earth passing away in Revelations. thank you

written with love
What we read about in Revelation is the destruction of Babylon, described both as a “harlot” (Rev 17:1) and as the city where the Lord was crucified (Rev 11:8). This is “Jerusalem”, called “harlot” in numerous times in the Old Testament and we know to be the city where Jesus was crucified.

Revelation describes the destruction of Babylon (Jerusalem) and the coming of a “new Jerusalem”). I’m suggesting that on one level, Jesus referring to “heave and earth passing away” in Matt 5:17 following his prediction that the the temple would be destroyed, was “fulfilled” when the temple was destroyed and Jerusalem was conquered by the Romans in 70 AD which “to the Jews” was a destruction of the “world”. I was merely suggesting that this was "one possible’ explanation as to why many Jewish believers continued to worship in the temple and follow aspects of the mosaic law until the destruction of the temple. I didn’t suggest it was the “only” reason some did so.

We see in the letter to Galatians and Hebrews that “judaizing” and a desire to remain in the “old wineskins” of the mosaic law continued by Jewish believes for quite some time after the death of Christ - thus the need for the “teaching” of Galatians and Hebrews.

Blessings,

Brian
 
Brian, please provide scriptural support of why the Sabbath now, means “rest in Christ”? thank you
Hebrews 3 to Hebrews 4. We rest in Him “today” . Read all of Hebrews 3 and 4 - but note particularly (on this specific issue), Hebrews 4:10: "for whoever enters God’s rest also ceases from his labors as God did from his"

Blessings,

Brian
 
hey, sorry to see you will be leaving the site. Thank you too, for the discussions. you demonstrate the love of God with your pleasant responses. May the Holy Spirit guide you in your ways. Until we talk again. May the word of God be a lamp to your feet and a light to your path.
Thank you for your kind words. I am not leaving the site. I am just not able to participate as much.

Sorry I didn’t see this post before.
Robbinson;7003585:
.
The following is a history of the changing of the Sabbath.

Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 4, p. 153. “The church after changing the day of rest from the Jewish Sabbath or seventh-day of the week to the first, made the third commandment refer to Sunday as the day to be kept holy as the Lord’s day
I am going to check this out at my library tomorrow. However, checking out the on line Encycopedia does not say the above. It sounds more like a biases conclusion. I will try to get back to you soon. It makes the rest of what was written suspect.
Eusebius, a noted bishop of the church, states, “All things whatsoever that it was duty to do on the Sabbath, these we have transferred to the Lord’s day.” Here, then, it is plain that a human hand, and not a divine, changed the Sabbath.
Again you can see that a conclusion is arrived at that is not warrented by what is stated by Eusebius.
Not only is the day changed, but also the time. Those that worship on Sunday due so from sunrise to sunset. Where the true Sabbath and the days prior to the Gregorian calendar where from sunset to sunset ( Gen 1:5
Gen 1:5 does not refer to how a day is defined. It is this persons personnal opion. He is also incorrect that it was from sunrise to sunset. A day is considered from midnight to midnight. So he is inaccurate.
Paul had prophesied that apostasy would take place soon after his departure. He said there would be a falling away from the truth.
Another errouneous interpretion
At that time the cult of Mithraism or sun-worship was the official religion of the Roman Empire. It stood as the greatest competitor to the new Christian religion. It had its own organization, temples, priesthood, robes—everything. It also had an official worship day on which special homage i was given to the sun. That day was called “The Venerable Day of the Sun.” It was the first day of the week, and from it we get our name Sunday. When Constantine pressed his pagan hordes into the church they were observing the day of the sun for their adoration of the sun god. It was their special holy day. In order to make it more convenient for them to make the change to the new religion, Constantine accepted their day of worship, Sunday, instead of the Christian Sabbath which had been observed by Jesus and His disciples.
Historically inaccuracies here would take more time for me to refute than I have. Rome was a place of many religions. Mithraism was gone by the time of Constntine. Sunday was well established as the day of worship long before Constantine. The Christians honor the Lords day not the Jewish Sabbath.
Remember that the way had been prepared for this already by the increasing anti-Jewish feelings against those who were accused of putting Jesus to death. Those feelings would naturally condition many Christians to swing away from something which was held religiously by the Jews. It is therefore easier to understand how the change was imposed on Christianity through a strong civil law issued by Constantine as the Emperor of Rome. The very wording of that law, by the way, can be found in any reliable encyclopedia. Those early Christians, feeling that the Jews should not be followed any more than necessary, were ready to swing away from the Sabbath which was kept by the Jews.
Boy this guy has his unfounded opinions. It sounds exactly why he fights the Catholic religion.
“The Gentiles were an idolatrous people who worshipped the sun, and Sunday was their most sacred day. Now in order to reach the people in this new field, it seems but natural as well as necessary to make Sunday the rest day of the church. At this time it was necessary for the church to either adopt the Gentile’s day or else have the Gentiles change their day. To change the Gentiles day would have been an offense and stumbling block to them. The church could naturally reach them better by keeping their day.”
This ignores the bible and the evidence that the apostles were the ones who changed it. It makes the unsubstantiated claim that “Gentiles” worshiped the sun.
By the time Constantine was established as the emperor of Rome in the early fourth century, there was a decided division in the church as a result of all these factors. I think most of you know that Constantine was the first so-called Christian emperor of the Roman Empire. The story of his conversion has become very well known to students of ancient history. He was marching forth to fight the battle of Milvian Bridge when he had some kind of vision, and saw a flaming cross in the sky. Underneath the cross were the Latin words meaning “In this sign conquer.” Constantine took this as an omen that he should be a Christian, and his army as well. He declared all his pagan soldiers to be Christians, and became very zealous to build up the power and prestige of the church. Through his influence great blocks of pagans were taken into the Christian ranks. But, friends, they were still pagan at heart, and they brought in much of the paraphernalia of sun-worship to which they continued to be devoted.
Opinion.
This piece is so full of twisted and falsified statements it cannot be trusted.
 
Originally Posted by Church Militant
Before the New Testament was even finished the early church had already begun to worship on the 1st day of the week in honor of the Resurrection of Our Lord Jesus Christ.
We ceased to be Jews by virtue of the New Testament and by having been thrown out of the temples and persecuted by the Jews & Romans.
Matthew 28:1
And in the end of the sabbath, when it began to dawn towards the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalen and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre.
Mark 16:2
And very early in the morning, the first day of the week, they come to the sepulchre, the sun being now risen.
Mark 16:9
But he rising early the first day of the week, appeared first to Mary Magdalen, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
Luke 24:1
And on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came to the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared.
John 20:1
And on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalen cometh early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre; and she saw the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
These verses show that it was already the practice of the Early Church.
Acts Of Apostles 20:7
And on the first day of the week, when we were assembled to break bread, Paul discoursed with them, being to depart on the morrow: and he continued his speech until midnight.
1 Corinthians 16:2
On the first day of the week let every one of you put apart with himself, laying up what it shall well please him; that when I come, the collections be not then to be made.
Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

Please read the previous posts and you will find that I have commented and disproved with biblical references why the verses you quoted provide no evidence that the first day of the week is the day of worship.

written with love
I don’t remember such posts would you either repeat or tell me the number? I have looked through the thread but cannot find the answers you are referring to.
 
That does not tell me which command of the ten.
Of course not. The 10 commandments did not exist in Genesis. They were given to Moses later, as attested in Scripture in the books of Exodus and Deuteronomy. Hope that helps.
 
Craig

**You stated ** I don’t believe there is any basis for breaking the Mosaic Law into two distinct parts (i) the Decalogue, on the one hand, and (ii) the balance of the 613 commandments in the Torah on the other. They are “one” law and all form a part of God’s commandments in the Torah under the mosaic law. In fact, not only have the Jews always treated them as part of “one” law, but this concept of the need for Jews to keep the “entire” law was repeated in the New Testament.

**My reply ** The Jews treat them as “one” law, for has the Messiah come for them? Where was it a need for the Jews to keep the entire law in the NT?

**You stated ** This is why I believe that when God said the law was nailed to the cross, he meant the “entire law” - However, the Decalogue (10 commandments) does continue as part of the law of Christ - the moral law written in our hearts. Why? because the balance of the law was “fulfilled” in Christ and what is left is the moral law which defines our attitude and behavior. I agree with you (once again - I really want to reiterate to you that I agree with you) that the Sabbath “commandment” continues - Our disagreement is on how we are following that “commandment” today after Christ. I believe that commandment is being fulfilled by believers in their “rest” in Christ on Saturday and every day.

Brian, I agree with you that we are to “rest” in God every day of the week. You are taking the Sabbath commandment now as a “rest” and not a “day”.

**My reply ** Two laws…one God

First number… Ten Commandments
First number… 613 commands ( temporary Jewish law)
  1. First spoken personally by God. Exodus 20:1, 22
  2. Spoken first by Moses. Exodus 24:3
  3. Written by God’s finger. Exodus 31:18; Exodus 32:16
  4. Written by Moses hand. 2 Chronicles 35:12; 2 Chronicles 33:8; Exodus 24:4;Deuteronomy 31:9
  5. First written on stones. Exodus 31:18
  6. Written in a book. Exodus 24:3, 7; Deuteronomy 31:24
  7. Handed by God its writer to Moses. Exodus 31:18
  8. Handed by Moses its writer to Levites. Deuteronomy 31:25-26
  9. Placed by Moses “inside the ark.” Deuteronomy 10:5
  10. Placed by the Levites “on the outside of the ark.” Deuteronomy 31:26, ARV
  11. Deals with moral precepts. i.e. love and relationships with God and man. Exodus 20:3-17
  12. Deals with ceremonial ritual matters. (See parts of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy)
  13. Reveals sin. Romans 7:7
  14. Prescribes offerings for sins. (See book of Leviticus)
  15. Breaking this law is “sin.” 1 John 3:4
  16. No sin in breaking for now “abolished.” Ephesians 2:15 (Where no law is, there is no transgression. Romans 4:15)
  17. We should “keep the whole law.” James 2:10
  18. Apostles gave “no such commandment” to “keep the law.” Acts 15:24
  19. We “shall be judged” by this law. James 2:12
  20. We are NOT judged by it. Colossians 2:16
  21. The Christian who keeps this law is “blessed in his deed.” James 1:25
  22. The Christian who keeps this law is not blessed. (See for example Galatians 5:1-6)
  23. “The perfect law of liberty.” James 1:25 (See also James 2:12)
  24. The Christian who keeps this law loses his liberty. Galatians 5:1, 3
  25. Paul said, “I delight in the law of God.” Romans 7:22 (See also Romans 7:7)
  26. Paul called this law a “yoke of bondage.” Galatians 5:1; Galatians 4:3, 9 (See Acts 15:10)
  27. Established by faith in Christ. Romans 3:31
  28. Abolished by Christ. Ephesians 2:15; Colossians 2:14
  29. Jesus was to “magnify the law and make it honorable.” Isaiah 42:21
  30. Blotted “out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us.” Colossians 2:14
  31. Eternal? Yes. Psalms 111:7-8; Matthew 5:18; Luke 16:17
  32. Eternal? No, ended at the cross. Hebrews 7:12; Galatians 3:19; Colossians 2:14
  33. Points out sin. 1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7
  34. Points to Christ. (added because of sin until Christ) Leviticus 4:27-31; Galatians 3:19
  35. Obey Now? Yes. Matthew 5:19; Luke 16:17
  36. Obey Now? No. Ephesians 2:15; Colossians 2:14-17; Galatians 4:9-10
  37. Liberty? (freedom) Yes. James 2:12; James 1:25
  38. Liberty? No. It was bondage. Galatians 4:9; 5:1
    Note: Freedom and bondage are exact opposites.
  39. Perfect? Yes. James 1:25; Psalms 19:7
  40. Perfect? No. Hebrews 7:19
  41. Good? Yes. Romans 7:12
  42. Good? No. Colossians 2:14; Galatians 4:9
Is this your thoughts regarding the 2 verses below:

Joh 14:15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.

The “commandments” are the Decalogue and the 613 commands.

(1Jn 5:3) “For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments…”

The " commandments" are only the Decalogue.

keep in mind the writer.

written with love
 
I don’t remember such posts would you either repeat or tell me the number? I have looked through the thread but cannot find the answers you are referring to.
Scriptures you want me to comment on:

Matthew 28:1
And in the end of the sabbath, when it began to dawn towards the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalen and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre.

Mark 16:2
And very early in the morning, the first day of the week, they come to the sepulchre, the sun being now risen.

Mark 16:9
But he rising early the first day of the week, appeared first to Mary Magdalen, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

Luke 24:1
And on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came to the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared.

John 20:1
And on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalen cometh early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre; and she saw the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

These verses show that it was already the practice of the Early Church.

My reply

I don’t see how the above verses have anything to do with worshiping on the first day of the week. Jesus could have rose on Saturday. I believe He was honoring His fathers commandment and observing the Sabbath day.
As a side note: Luke wrote about 30 years after the death of Christ, the Sabbath Day commandment ( Decalogue) was still observed by Luke. Notice the words " rested on the sabbath day according to the commandment." It is believed that the book of Luke was written in the early 60’s. Therefore, Luke did not say they rested on the commandment that “was”, which would indicate that the sabbath is no longer observed. If the sabbath was no longer observed at the time of Luke’s writtings in the early 60’s, Luke would have written the verse as … rested on the sabbath that “was” according to the commandment.
Luke’s statement is that they rested on the sabbath day “according to the” commandment ( that still is being observed during Luke’s time).

**You stated ** Acts Of Apostles 20:7
And on the first day of the week, when we were assembled to break bread, Paul discoursed with them, being to depart on the morrow: and he continued his speech until midnight.

**My reply ** n the first place we wonder if the writer of the tract realized that the meeting in question was not on what is now known as Sunday at all, but was at the time we now speak of as Saturday night, or Saturday evening!

According to the Bible method of reckoning time, each day began at sundown. (Leviticus 23:32; Mark 1:32) Hence the evening of the first day was the evening preceding the first day, and not the evening following the first day, which was part of the second day. The meeting was therefore on the evening after the Sabbath, now known as Saturday evening. And to make matters worse for those who try to see in this some evidence that Paul was then keeping the first day, the record plainly reads that Paul was then planning to travel the next day! This he would not have done at all if their supposition were correct that he was then a Sunday observer!

Should the writer insist upon our using in this single particular instance the Roman reckoning of time, in order to help out in his impossible quest for evidence for Sunday keeping, he will then get into still deeper difficulties, for the principal feature of the meeting, the breaking of bread, took place after midnight and hence on Monday, and Monday would be the day he should observe if he prefers to follow such flimsy inferences! After all there is nothing in the Scriptures to show that the celebration of the Lord’s Supper was confined to any particular day of the week.
  • Hard Nuts Cracked, H.M.S. Richards,
Also, Paul met with them till late at night. Would this be a custom of worshiping? And Paul was getting older at this time, and he probably knew it would be his last talk with them… as it was, this was the last time Paul spoke with them. And last, the breaking of bread was a daily custom at that time…Acts 2:46.

**You stated ** 1 Corinthians 16:2
On the first day of the week let every one of you put apart with himself, laying up what it shall well please him; that when I come, the collections be not then to be made.

**My reply ** Lets read precept upon precept, line upon line
(1Co 16:1) Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. (1Co 16:2) Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.(1Co 16:3) And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem.

Paul was writing special appeals to the churches in Asia Minor, because many of the Christians in Jerusalem were suffering greatly for lack of food and daily necessities. Paul asked the church at Corinth to gather food, clothing, etc., and store it up at home until he could send men to transport it to Jerusalem. The expression “lay by him in store” in the original Greek gives the clear connotation of putting aside at home.

There was no service held on the first day of the week. The gathering up and storing was to be done on that day. Why did Paul suggest that this work be done on Sunday, and what was involved in getting it done?

First of all, the letter would have been shared with the church on the Sabbath when they were all gathered for worship. The first opportunity to do the work would be the next day - the first day of the week. Keep in mind that there was an apparent food shortage in Jerusalem, and the need was not primarily for money. Such famine conditions were not unusual in areas of the Middle East, as Luke reminds us in Acts 11:28-30.

written with love
 
What we read about in Revelation is the destruction of Babylon, described both as a “harlot” (Rev 17:1) and as the city where the Lord was crucified (Rev 11:8). This is “Jerusalem”, called “harlot” in numerous times in the Old Testament and we know to be the city where Jesus was crucified.

Revelation describes the destruction of Babylon (Jerusalem) and the coming of a “new Jerusalem”). I’m suggesting that on one level, Jesus referring to “heave and earth passing away” in Matt 5:17 following his prediction that the the temple would be destroyed, was “fulfilled” when the temple was destroyed and Jerusalem was conquered by the Romans in 70 AD which “to the Jews” was a destruction of the “world”. I was merely suggesting that this was "one possible’ explanation as to why many Jewish believers continued to worship in the temple and follow aspects of the mosaic law until the destruction of the temple. I didn’t suggest it was the “only” reason some did so.

We see in the letter to Galatians and Hebrews that “judaizing” and a desire to remain in the “old wineskins” of the mosaic law continued by Jewish believes for quite some time after the death of Christ - thus the need for the “teaching” of Galatians and Hebrews.

Blessings,

Brian
Sorry Brian, I mis-understood you, please forgive me. I agree with your comments on the Jews and their continued beliefs after the crucifixion.

Who is the woman in Rev 17?
 
Hebrews 3 to Hebrews 4. We rest in Him “today” . Read all of Hebrews 3 and 4 - but note particularly (on this specific issue), Hebrews 4:10: "for whoever enters God’s rest also ceases from his labors as God did from his"

Blessings,

Brian
Will comment. Any other scriptures in the bible?
 
Hebrews 3 to Hebrews 4. We rest in Him “today” . Read all of Hebrews 3 and 4 - but note particularly (on this specific issue), Hebrews 4:10: "for whoever enters God’s rest also ceases from his labors as God did from his"

Blessings,

Brian
Heb. 4:4 Hebrews tells us that the seventh day, Sabbath day ( as it was from creation when God rested from all His works - this indicates that the Sabbath day was instituted at creation), remains ( vs 6) . Israel left Egypt and to this day it still awaits completion. Israel never did complete God’s mission for them. Israel did not keep the true Sabbath , therefore, there remains a Sabbath rest for God’s people. vs 9 clearly informs us that we are talking about a specific day that remains. vs 10 “… his works as God did from His” ( when did God rest from His works… on the seventh day /Sabbath day.
 
Is the Sabbath for the Jews only? No

The other nine commandments are not “just for Jews.” God wrote “Ten Commandments” on stone, not just nine (See Deut. 4:12, 13; Ex. 20). Does “Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” and “Do not bear false witness” apply only to Jews?

The Sabbath commandment is for the “stranger” too. The fourth commandment itself says the “stranger” is to rest on the Sabbath. Exodus 20:10. “Strangers” are non-Jews, or Gentiles. Thus the Sabbath applies to them too. Read also Isaiah 56:6.

Isaiah said Gentiles should keep the Sabbath. “Also the sons of the stranger … every one that keeps the Sabbath … for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.” Isaiah 56:6, 7. Thus the Sabbath is for Gentiles and “all people,” not just for Jews.

written with love
 
Sorry Brian, I mis-understood you, please forgive me. I agree with your comments on the Jews and their continued beliefs after the crucifixion.

Who is the woman in Rev 17?
A symbol for the faithless who wondered from God to worship others like a “harlot” - images harkening back to the Hebrew scriptures in Isa 3:16-24; Ezek 28:11-16 and Jer 51:7.

This understanding is consistent with image of Jerusalem facing imminent destruction in 70AD.

Blessings,

Brian
 
Heb. 4:4 Hebrews tells us that the seventh day, Sabbath day ( as it was from creation when God rested from all His works - this indicates that the Sabbath day was instituted at creation), remains ( vs 6) . Israel left Egypt and to this day it still awaits completion. Israel never did complete God’s mission for them. Israel did not keep the true Sabbath , therefore, there remains a Sabbath rest for God’s people. vs 9 clearly informs us that we are talking about a specific day that remains. vs 10 “… his works as God did from His” ( when did God rest from His works… on the seventh day /Sabbath day.
So - we continue to agree to disagree.

But on the larger issue - you keep reading past the punch line - so “one more time”. I believe I observe the Saturday Sabbath by resting in Christ, on the saturday Sabbath (I aslo rest in him “Today” and “Everyday” because that rest in eternal - just as it was meant to be in the Garden of Eden, and just like it will be for all who find God in heaven).

I believe Hebrews 4 shows us that those who rest in Christ “cease from our labors” - I don’t read it as saying that we must rest from our labors to rest in Christ.

Blessings,

Brian
 
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