Commentary: "Why American Children Stopped Believing in God"

[StudentMI]

Do you see any difference when the state is conservative and when it’s left leaning? I’d be interested to see some examples. You surely don’t mean that any all states simply want you to be subservient. That smacks of paranoia and you certainly don’t seem the paranoid type.

There’s an idea from Pierre Bourdieu that there are left and right ‘hands’ of the state. The right is the militaristic side, while the left is the social services side, to simplify it to the point of near absurdity. I would tend to agree with that, and that each side tends to promote its favored hand.

But the point, as I see it, is that left or right hand aside, it’s one body operating them. Public schools have always operated according to a system of instilling patriotic values in children, along with training in obedience and more often than not teaching them to accept their place in the socio-economic system.

And you could also explain why private interests couldn’t be accused of exactly that which you are accusing the state. What’s to stop them being nurserys for religious or political extremism?

Nothing but the law of supply and demand. Culture plays an important part in maintaining a system of liberty. But I do posit that a system of voluntary exchanges is inherently less authoritarian leaning than a system of compulsive exchanges. Markets are so often associated with state capitalism that this has been forgotten.

 

[Freddy]

But the point, as I see it, is that left or right hand aside, it’s one body operating them. Public schools have always operated according to a system of instilling patriotic values in children, along with training in obedience and more often than not teaching them to accept their place in the socio-economic system.

Freddy:

And you could also explain why private interests couldn’t be accused of exactly that which you are accusing the state. What’s to stop them being nurserys for religious or political extremism?

Nothing but the law of supply and demand.

There’s nothing wrong with instilling a love of country (as opposed to nationalism) into children. And, to a certain extent, to have respect for those who are justifiably in positions of authority and who wield that authority well.

And there are some teachers on the forum and I would bet that they would tell you that their job is to get children to a point where they have the greatest opportunity to move on in life to a position that they feel happy with. And most certainly not to tell them to ‘know their place’. Good grief, that’s practically an Edwardian mind set.

And supply and demand is not a concept you want to be pushing when it comes to basic education. ‘Private education for all’ becomes good education for those who can afford it (supply and demand don’t you know) and the devil take the rest.

We live in a reasonably well off part of Sydney. But there is a significant difference between the public school and private school options. The local private school (Catholic) has it’s own tennis courts, swimming pool and sports grounds. Excellent teachers and a roll call of past students that include Australia’s Governor General. And the public school has bars on the windows and a metal detector at the main entrance.

Those who can afford it send their kids to the private school and their kids get a head start on everyone else. That’s your supply and demand. It’s a bad system.

Full disclosure: ‘Hypocritical Freddy’ sent his son to the private school.

 

[Dan123]

Let me ask you this. 5 businesses spring up in territory x. The market is free and the businesses compete in providing services to the public.

Suddenly, the government of territory x decides that all businesses operating within the territory must operate according to law y. What is the immediate effect?

Depends on the law.

Suppose there’s 5 businesses that make widgets. 4 of them dispose of the hazardous waste that their industry produces responsibly, one of them dumps it in the lake they’re adjacent to. Over the years the other 4 go out of business one by one as they simply can’t compete with the one that’s dumping waste, any larger buyers and especially government contracts have to go to the significantly cheaper option.

10 years goes by and it’s clear citizens are getting sick and dying, especially those who live near the lake. When people try to sue the company for dumping dangerous chemicals in the lake they find the company has virtually no assets, any tangible property being owned by a series of shell companies; the company, what little there is, files for bankruptcy, and the sick and injured are left with little recourse.

A law is passed with regulations regarding the handling and disposal of those chemicals, with inspections and stiff penalties for violations.

What is the effect?

 

[fhansen]

The main reason children don’t believe in God, is because their parents don’t.

 

[Inquisitor85]

Oh–I forgot to say it–pay for the private, online, and homeschools with the 63% of property tax monies that are currently being wasted paying for sub-par and failing public schools.

So what you’re saying @Peeps is improve public schools, to the point that they match private ones. That is an excellent plan.

 

[yankeesouth]

You can forget that now. Wouldn’t be surprised if the left goes after private/homeschooling under the guise of the teachings of Jesus as ‘hate speech’. Who cares if kids can read or write as long as they are brainwashed with the leftist agenda.

 

[Freddy]

You can forget that now. Wouldn’t be surprised if the left goes after private/homeschooling under the guise of the teachings of Jesus as ‘hate speech’. Who cares if kids can read or write as long as they are brainwashed with the leftist agenda.

Where do you get this stuff from? You’re just making it up. Which does nothing for your credibility.

 

[Peeps]

You can forget that now. Wouldn’t be surprised if the left goes after private/homeschooling under the guise of the teachings of Jesus as ‘hate speech’. Who cares if kids can read or write as long as they are brainwashed with the leftist agenda.

I do agree with you that many secular educators are very much against home-schools and private schools, believing that they “brainwash” children, that they have racist policies that prevent minorities from being admitted, and that the schools inflate their academic accomplishments. They also resent that teachers in these schools often accept much lower salaries (often because the teacher considers a religious school a part of their personal “calling” from God). (Home schooling parents accept no salary!)

And…public school numbers are decreasing as couples have less children, and as more families opt for private or home schools, and this means that public schools don’t have enough students to stay open, so staff is reduced, or transferred to other schools.

Also, due to decreasing population and due to people moving out of states like Illinois, the public schools are having a hard time collecting enough taxes to pay their expenses.

So it’s possible that private and home schools could be targeted by an industry (education) that is struggling.

I think that rather than attacking Jesus, the attack would come in the form of seeking out anyone in the private school who has any reputation/rumor/possibly even arrest or sadly, conviction, of a sex crime–and that could be something as…well…troubling, but not necessarily a threat to children…as possession of porn (not child porn). And the “porn” might be something like vintage issues of Playboy, or playing cards with nude photographs of movie stars.

Even if it’s just a rumor, an accusation, and even if the accused is found innocent in a court–the very hint of pornography or sex crimes will wreak havoc with the private school.

During the proceedings, the accused will have to leave the school, and a lot of time and money will be spent defending himself or herself, and if they are found guilty, there will be lawsuits. And if the accused is found innocent, it won’t matter–the reputation of the school is sullied forever (gossip, rumors, innuendos), and in all likelihood will lose so many students that it will have to close.

This could also happen in a home-school setting, and if the home-school is affiliated with a home school co-op, the entire co-op could could go down.

 

[Peeps]

Where do you get this stuff from? You’re just making it up. Which does nothing for your credibility.

Please read my post above–yes, I’m making it up. I’m theorizing–that’s a legitimate part of the scientific method, and it’s something I do everyday working in the hospital lab in microbiology–I theorize as to what bacteria is growing on the petri plate, and then I do the testing to see if I’m right (I usually am right).

Do you honestly believe that what I say will never happen? I truly hope you’re right and my theory is just silliness!

I hope that the private and home schools are left alone–unless there really is a sexual predator or someone who is using the school setting for sexual purposes–then I hope that person gets prosecuted and convicted, and those who have been hurts by him/her will get the help they need).

But during the five years that I had my daughters in public school, I saw too many incidents of teachers who were actually “anti-parent”, and definitely anti-religion. I can certainly believe that they would want to take private and home schools DOWN–I’ve listed several strong motives for such action in my post above.

One of the best (and most expensive) decisions I ever made was getting my daughters OUT of public schools in Illinois.

 

[DisorientingSneeze]

I went to a good public school and stayed Catholic. I taught in public schools for 9 years. My kids(pre pandemic) went to public school.

Thanks for the gift of threads like this. When I’m sad about that the forums that helped me so much over the years are slotted to die a very scheduled death, seeing this kind of thing really softens the blow.

Edit: I was never against home school or private schools nor were my colleagues. We were rather against charter schools for countless reasons.

 

[Freddy]

Do you honestly believe that what I say will never happen?

Nobody’s given any credible evidence that it’s something that anyone might want.

 

[Billy_Buescher]

Since the new Administration is going to give out free colleges education, why can’t they also give out free K thru 12 grade education, and use the state school tax money for other things, or give it back to the people and then they can send children to private schools.

 

[Freddy]

Since the new Administration is going to give out free colleges education, why can’t they also give out free K thru 12 grade education, and use the state school tax money for other things, or give it back to the people and then they can send children to private schools.

Is college going to be free?

 

[Billy_Buescher]

That was their promise, of course if we the people had some recourse to stop all of the lies that the politicians , use to gain power, that could change the country. Maybe if we saw justice prevail, more people would come back to God, and not just give up.

 

[Inquisitor85]

why can’t they also give out free K thru 12 grade education

I’m not from the US, but I’m pretty confident that would be what is commonly referred to as the public school system.

 

[Inquisitor85]

You can forget that now. Wouldn’t be surprised if the left goes after private/homeschooling

It frequently amuses me when people on the right accuse the left* of coming for their homeschools/guns/religion (delete as appropriate) when the actual reality is the precise opposite.

*Liberals might be coming for your guns, leftists definitely aren’t. There is a difference.

 

[farronwolf]

OMG, children stop believing in God and it is the governments fault.

REALLY?

The gov. isn’t supposed to teach your kids about God, or about how to raise a child, or how to clean a house, or being financially responsible, or being a good person.

This is the job of the parents.

Lets make all schools private. Really again. How many Catholic schools have closed in the past 50 years. If the Catholic Church can’t even keep their own schools open, how does one expect for there to be a miraculous reopening of private schools when the public ones are shut down.

Stop looking for someone else to blame all the time. If children aren’t up to grade level, who’s fault is that. Did the parents work with the kid before they got to school, do they help with their homework when they are in elementary school and learning how to study and building their foundation for what will be learned when the course work goes beyond the parents ability to help?

Sure lets blame the gov for everything and shut down the schools. Lets go a bit further with this, and shut down the dept of transportation too. Everyone can start to grow their own food, move back to rural areas, have their cows, and pigs, and gardens.

You know what, most people would starve because they have no clue how to do that, and it would be the gov’s fault as well wouldn’t it.

Craziness.

 

[Gorgias]

supply and demand is not a concept you want to be pushing when it comes to basic education. ‘Private education for all’ becomes good education for those who can afford it (supply and demand don’t you know) and the devil take the rest.

This!


To say “let’s dismantle the public school system” is to be ignorant of history and of the reasons it was created in the first place.

Fix it? Make it fulfill its original goals? Sure. But throwing the baby out with the bathwater is certainly unreasonable.

yankeesouth:

Wouldn’t be surprised if the left goes after private/homeschooling under the guise of the teachings of Jesus as ‘hate speech’.

Where do you get this stuff from? You’re just making it up.

It does sound kinda “tin-foil-hat”-esque. Yet, we’ve seen attempts to sue religious schools for asserting that their faculty abide by the doctrines of the faith held by that school’s ownership. Just to our north (yeah, I know, I’m not talking about 'murrica anymore), we see that some religious speech has already been adjudicated against as “hate speech”.

So… do I buy into the “America becomes a socialist nation on January 20” notion? No… that’s just plain crazy.

But, in terms of whether there are those out there who are gunning for religious groups…? Yeah, there are.

Is college going to be free?

Sure… as long as you’re willing to default on your college loans.

That was their promise

That was the promise of some candidates (who didn’t get nominated) and of some Congresspeople (who didn’t get their dreams written into the platform). AFAIK, it’s not part of the incoming administration’s game plan.

The gov. isn’t supposed to teach your kids about God, or about how to raise a child, or how to clean a house, or being financially responsible, or being a good person.

This is the job of the parents.

To be fair, though, the government also isn’t supposed to prevent you from teaching your kids about God or how to raise your kids. They kinda get involved in those, though, to a certain extent. Think back to the Obama administration, and the kerfuffle that he was attempting to talk about “not interfering with Sunday worship” as opposed to “not interfering with religious liberty”.

 

[farronwolf]

To be fair, though, the government also isn’t supposed to prevent you from teaching your kids about God or how to raise your kids.

Never had anyone from the gov. come into my house when I was as kid and tell my parents with their 11 children how to raise us or keep them from teaching us about God. Nor have I encountered such with raising my child.

I don’t recall what you are referring to under Obama, you will have to explain that.

 

[benjammin]

Maybe that’s the point. Those of us not worthy enough of education don’t deserve it. Of course no one is going to think they DONT deserve one. Most will argue that their kids do but not other kids.

That being said I think we just need to make public schools more religion friendly