Commentary: "Why American Children Stopped Believing in God"

[Gorgias]

And I will say again, the parents ability to teach virtuous behavior is not undermined.

No. But their ability to be effective is.

If you say that the gov. allows for children to disregard what their parents teach them, we can agree. Or if you say the laws regarding morality make it difficult for children follow the teachings that are given by their parents, we might can agree on that as well.

Precisely.

 

[TC3033]

I do agree with you that many secular educators are very much against home-schools and private schools, believing that they “brainwash” children, that they have racist policies that prevent minorities from being admitted, and that the schools inflate their academic accomplishments.

Really?? I’ve honestly never met a public school teacher that believes that private schools are some sort of “brainwashing” factory. Honestly, I see on here a lot that people believe that public schools are some sort of brainwashing factory… I worked at a Catholic high school for some time that I know inflated their academic numbers. They didn’t run on a 4.0 GPA scale. They ran on a 4.5. I as a B+ student (I graduated around 3.4), my GPA would have been 3.8 at that school. Is what it is.

So it’s possible that private and home schools could be targeted by an industry (education) that is struggling.

I don’t think so…I don’t ever hear it even brought up.

I went to a good public school and stayed Catholic. I taught in public schools for 9 years. My kids(pre pandemic) went to public school.

Thanks for the gift of threads like this. When I’m sad about that the forums that helped me so much over the years are slotted to die a very scheduled death, seeing this kind of thing really softens the blow.

Edit: I was never against home school or private schools nor were my colleagues. We were rather against charter schools for countless reasons.

^^^^ This

 

[TC3033]

So…am I unrealistic to think that by now, schoolteachers should have figured out ways to work with these children to achieve good results (grade level learning)? Isn’t that their job, or more accurately, their profession?

Yes. These are the exact kids (specifically high school) that my wife works with. If the parents are active (or at least present) to hold their kid accountable and make sure they’re actually doing the work, there’s only so much a teacher can do. Have you ever heard the saying about “leading a horse to water”?

Everyone who works can tell a story about a time they had to jury-rig a process to get a job done–surely teachers could do the same to help kids who don’t have parents who impart to their children the basic skills and care that prepares the child to achieve good results in school.

Any ideas? I’ll tell you a story: I was helping my wife enter grades some years ago. I read off the grade and she entered it in her book. 8, 12, 7, 15, 50, 50, 8, 7, 5…I looked at my wife and said “Well, at least you had 2 kids that did it.” Her reply, no…those are two of the few kids that actually showed up and paid attention. We went through the packet before turning it in, those are the two that followed along and filled it back out.

She’s had parents yell at her during meetings, all she has to do is lay out her grade book and show how many days the kid missed and how many missing assignments they have. Teachers can’t go to your house and pull your kid out of bed and get them to class or online, the same way they can’t go home with your child and walk them through the homework.

 

[Jen95]

farronwolf:

As we all do.

The biggest influence on children and adolescents? Peers. Pick your children’s friends and you’re half way there.

If you pick a school with high-achieving kids, that helps. If you have school vouchers for schools, that helps as well.

 

[Jen95]

What’s the number one predictor of child poverty?
Being born to a single mom.
EDIT - According to this article in the Atlantic,

… your parents’ marriage (or living arrangement) matters. The single strongest predictor of a child’s economic fortunes is the fraction of single parents in the area where she grew up. Children of married parents have a much better shot of getting ahead even if they’re in areas where single parents are the norm. “The fraction of children living in single-parent households is the strongest correlate of upward income mobility among all the variables we explored,” the researchers said.

How many times have we heard the message “don’t have marital relations out of wedlock” from the USBBC?

Economists: Your Parents Are More Important Than Ever - The Atlantic

 

[farronwolf]

If you pick a school with high-achieving kids, that helps. If you have school vouchers for schools, that helps as well.

Vouchers may work for some if they have means. For others who don’t have the means to get their kid to the preferred school they would want with their vouchers, then the vouchers do no good.

I’ll give you an example not of the voucher system but what happened in our district.

The elementary school my son went to did not have an area of the community it served, it was a math and engineering focus. You had to test to get into the school. They limited enrollment to 66 children per grade. They started with 1st grade math in kindergarten, and stayed 1 year ahead of the rest of the district until 6th grade, when they skipped another year of math and went to 8th grade math in the 6th grade. I think he took his college algebra in the 10th grade. He is a senior now, and I haven’t helped him with math in a few years. Told him I wasn’t relearning stuff I did 30+ years ago. I am certainly not any help with calculus or physics.

Anyway, there was no bus system for this school. If you couldn’t get your kid to school and pick them up at the end of the day, your child simply couldn’t go there, period. It was no problem for us. Wife works for me, and other than tax season, we are very flexible on time. We even picked up our doctors kid and dropped him off at their office after school for a couple of years.

Me being the shy type, I wrote the superintendent an email and asked why they didn’t offer bussing for this particular school. I was certain there are kids in our town which could do well in the school but because of their home life there would be no way for the single mom or grandmother or whomever to be able to provide the transportation to and from for the child.

I got a run around answer. Well 2 years in or so, they started offering bus service for this school. But guess what, it was one bus for the entire school district to this school. This meant that if we signed our kid up to ride the bus, they would pick him up at about 6 a.m. and they would drop him off at about 5:30 pm. For elementary grade kids. I though to myself, what nonsense.

So I emailed the superintendent again, and asked why they heck they didn’t pick up the kids at their “home” school, meaning the one closest to their home, and shuttle them to the math school from there in the morning and back to their home school in the evening. I can’t remember the answer but it was some garbledy gooc that came back.

At least they offered bus service to this school but it was a crazy method of doing it.

My point being that if a person can get their kid to the desired school, then vouchers might be a good option for them. But if they can’t, do vouchers really do any good. This is all dependent on the parents ability and willingness to help their child succeed. When the parents fail their children from the start, the children are destine to fail unfortunately.

 

[Jen95]

Yes, we experience the same thing.
Our local Catholic high school doesn’t have any bus service and I wonder if it’s on purpose to essentially allow in only students who are wealthy enough (in parental time / freedom / extra vehicles, etc) to actually attend. They could easily run a small bus from a feeder school or two and that would help parents out tremendously, but that never happens.

 

[Angel_Gabriel]

Same here…none of the Catholic grade schools have busing service either…there was one that used it for a few years but ended up cancelling it b/c it was “too expensive”. It was also pretty inconvenient b/c it meant having to be at the pick up/drop off way too early. Ironically the pick up was at one of the catholic high schools and using one of the high school’s bus! Those buses were only for sporting events…go figure. Shows what counts around here!

 

[Jen95]

Shows what counts… Wait - do you mean football?!

 

[NevermoreLenore]

My teens have attended public school and are surrounded by filthy language and inappropriate behaviour. But from the earliest ages I taught them how to BE in the world and not OF the world, that many people don’t believe like we do, that they should only date Catholics and have at least some friendships with Catholic peers, to remember that certain bad kid at school may have a horrible home life, not to judge people because we don’t know their lived experiences and how they differ from ours, to always assume charity unless proven otherwise, that their relationship with God is unique and they need to cultivate that, etc.

My husband and I LEAD by EXAMPLE. My husband gets up every morning and prays for an hour–the kids and I are inspired by and admire his discipline. We model empathy and charity, WE apologise to THEM when we’re wrong, we discipline them always with explanations as to WHY what they did was wrong, we are honest with them, if we have to say ‘no’ we always explain why, we have helped them to learn to advocate for themselves, others, and God, WE LISTEN to them and weigh their thoughts and opinions with respect–they feel heard. The kids know dad and mom are in charge but they know that we always listen and consider their perspective, and I’ve learned a great deal from my kids’ wisdom. In turn, we have kind, caring, and voluntarily helpful kids.

My 14yo wanted to meet with our priest on her own last week for advice and help, and last night she and I spent an hour in her room talking about life, struggles, and God. I noticed she had a Bible on her nightstand that was pristine and now is well worn. My 17yo faithfully prays (like her daddy) and every night falls asleep listening to scripture readings. The 15yo asks me to pray with her all the time and has shed many tears because she misses serving at Catholic Charities (they have stopped certain services because of COVID). Each of their faith journey is unique and we didn’t force anything on them. They have been in public schools the whole time, going out in the big, bad world and mixing with the [whispers] free lunch kids and the trailer park kids. My kids try to be a light–the Light of Christ–in the world. I have many stories about their influence on atheistic peers, teachers ‘catching’ them helping the special Ed kids in school, and so on. The school has taught them reading, writing, math, science, etc. But their spiritual and moral teaching comes from home and weekly Mass and RE. We are far far (far!) from perfect and for me anyway, I’m constantly humbled by my weaknesses. But we’ve been consistent in charity, discipline, and fostering close bonds.

And btw poor, single-parented, orphaned children deserve a fair shake too. Saying ‘don’t like it, move’ is insulting to those who are barely getting by and lack the resources to move. Kids with abusive parents benefit from being in school and around peers like my kids, who show them love and kindness. It is arrogant to think we’re owed anything better than ‘the least of these’. Hmmm, orphans, the poor, the downtrodden, the least of us…I think I’ve heard of these people…people we are supposed to serve and love.

 

[BornInMarch]

This article is a reminder to parents that you need to take an active role in your children’s lives if you want them to share your values in adulthood.

 

[Angel_Gabriel]

aw, how’d you guess?!?! lol!

 

[Jen95]

Your kids sound wonderful, and wonderfully strong. I’m afraid they might be the exception. I think it demonstrates their extremely strong home life.
I’m afraid that many Christian kids are dragged down by public school, rather than raising up their classmates.
I think it can be too challenging for some kids to put them in a hostile school situation.

 

[TC3033]

Your kids sound wonderful, and wonderfully strong. I’m afraid they might be the exception. I think it demonstrates their extremely strong home life.

Disagree

I’m afraid that many Christian kids are dragged down by public school, rather than raising up their classmates.

Again, Disagree

I think it can be too challenging for some kids to put them in a hostile school situation.

Are you assuming that public schools (in general) are “a hostile school situation”? If so, that’s a pretty big stretch.

 

[TC3033]

that they should only date Catholics

Glad you guys weren’t my wife’s parents…

 

[NevermoreLenore]

Touché. My apologies. We encourage this as sharing religious beliefs certain helps the relationship, but to your point, iron sharpens iron and I don’t think poorly of nonChristians or nonCatholics. I hope I did not offend! Your wife is blessed to have you.

 

[Vico]

… by and large … heavily affected …

The use of those two phrases allows room for agreement.

 

[NevermoreLenore]

Jen95:

I’m afraid that many Christian kids are dragged down by public school, rather than raising up their classmates.

Again, Disagree

I

It occurs to me that quality of education, quality of life actually, varies significantly throughout the US. I’ve been disheartened at the rabid disunity politics have brought to the fore. Just seeing maps lately of the US showing things like red vs blue, poverty disparity, income levels, etc I’ve been saddened to see we’re not all that united after all. I have my experience and @Jen95 has hers, and my guess is we are both right.

I don’t know the solution except that parents need to do what’s best for their kids and know their kids’ strengths and weaknesses. Rest assured, if I had a child flailing academically, socially, or morally I would not hesitate to seek other educational options including homeschooling them myself.

 

[Jen95]

I agree, the best we can do is to know and observe our kids, and our schools, and evaluate them as we go along.

 

[Peeps]

Yes. These are the exact kids (specifically high school) that my wife works with. If the parents are active (or at least present) to hold their kid accountable and make sure they’re actually doing the work, there’s only so much a teacher can do. Have you ever heard the saying about “leading a horse to water”?

I dont think I agree with this.

If what you’re saying is true, then we need to get these kids out of school. They are wasting resources, tax monies, donations, professionals’ time, and making it more difficult for other motivated kids to learn.

Certainly they should be cared for…but why waste time educating them if the parents may actually be circumventing the attempts of the teachers?

But…I don’t really believe this.

I believe that ALL children, including children with terrible parents, can learn to read, write, and do enough basic arithmetic to be able to work and live.

I think what’s needed is to re-think the way we educate children and figure out ways that we can educate those who got stuck with incompetent parents.

Educators have been working on this with children on the autism spectrum for years now, and it seems to be working. When I was growing up, autism basically was considered incurable and the children generally didn’t attend school, but stayed home, or were installed in institutions. But now…we have learned about autism and how to work with people who have it. In fact, we have learned that some of them are quite brilliant–just locked in.

I think we could do the same thing with children who come from homes with incompetent parents. Figure out how they learn and how to teach them.

We’ve already done some of this with emphasis on early childhold intervention and learning. I was up early this morning (stressing about my husband who is critically ill with COVID), and I’ve watch TWO public service commercials targeted to single parents about the importance of early childhood education–simple things even a poor parent can do with their baby or small child to get him/her ready for school.

In our city (might be our state), ALL low-income children are eligible to attend Head Start programs. Now I would prefer to see these children in a Christian pre-school so they can also learn about God–but I think the Head Start is better than sitting at home in front of a TV!

We also have a United Way program called “Move the Middle,” aimed towards helping middle school students be ready for high school not only academically, but also socially. Apparently research indicates children make their decisions in MIDDLE school about what kind of life they will lead.

A lot of kids get in trouble in academics because they miss out on something important–perhaps they get sick and miss two weeks of middle school and when they come back, their math class is way ahead of them and they just can’t catch up or figure out the new skills. To me, this is on the TEACHER. They need to help the child get back on track again.

I just don’t believe kids who got the short end of the stick are uneducable. I think we need to figure out how to educate them and just do it.