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Scott_Lafrance
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Ya, but some people, many of them Catholic, have turned to the State as their god. “Render unto Caesar”.
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st_lucy
Guest
I often wonder how many of those who are here stating that spanking is abuse have children of their own. I remember back before I had children I once felt the same way. 
I have two children, I haven’t had to spank either one in over three years and they are 10 and 14. My daughter when she was really young 3 perhaps and into her horrible temper tantrums, would get a firm smack in the rump and sent to her room. The smack on the butt was probably all she needed. I believe that these stopped around the age of 4. She was born talking and has not stopped since birth so using words with her usually worked well. She is a very sensitive girl and so now all we have to do is reprimand her and she is heartbroken and re-evaluates her behavior.
Now my son on the other hand, did not talk until he was well past 4, so I believe that he did not get his first smack on the rump until he was about six or seven. And he unlike my daughter seemed to get it when we did the smack and sent him to his room. The reprimanding did not work with him since he did not know how to use words. We would get mad and tell him no and he would drop what he was doing walk away… and then literally ten seconds later walk right back to it. (sneaky little sucker ) But a good smack on the rump would get through to him and he never repeated the action again. So although those days of discipline seemed to last forever they are far behind us.
Now, I was both abused physically and verbally. And I can tell you that I would have rather taken the physical abuse anytime. The verbal abuse has stayed with me so much longer. I wonder if those who advocate the state jumping in and taking the rights of the parents away also want the state to monitor the parents who don’t spank but talk to their kids? You know once we allow the state to intervene on our neighbor it wont be long until she in intervening on us.
Just saying be careful of what it is you are wishing for.
I have two children, I haven’t had to spank either one in over three years and they are 10 and 14. My daughter when she was really young 3 perhaps and into her horrible temper tantrums, would get a firm smack in the rump and sent to her room. The smack on the butt was probably all she needed. I believe that these stopped around the age of 4. She was born talking and has not stopped since birth so using words with her usually worked well. She is a very sensitive girl and so now all we have to do is reprimand her and she is heartbroken and re-evaluates her behavior.
Now my son on the other hand, did not talk until he was well past 4, so I believe that he did not get his first smack on the rump until he was about six or seven. And he unlike my daughter seemed to get it when we did the smack and sent him to his room. The reprimanding did not work with him since he did not know how to use words. We would get mad and tell him no and he would drop what he was doing walk away… and then literally ten seconds later walk right back to it. (sneaky little sucker
) But a good smack on the rump would get through to him and he never repeated the action again. So although those days of discipline seemed to last forever they are far behind us.Now, I was both abused physically and verbally. And I can tell you that I would have rather taken the physical abuse anytime. The verbal abuse has stayed with me so much longer. I wonder if those who advocate the state jumping in and taking the rights of the parents away also want the state to monitor the parents who don’t spank but talk to their kids? You know once we allow the state to intervene on our neighbor it wont be long until she in intervening on us.
Just saying be careful of what it is you are wishing for.
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shockerfan
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If you don’t know the difference between “hitting / abuse” and “spanking / punishment”, then I suggest you don’t engage in spanking your children, if you have any. As other posters have stated, there is biblical support for the practice, and other people’s attempt to use the “Jesus never did it / said it” line either forget Jesus, as the 2nd person of the Trinity, was around when Proverbs was written, or they don’t realize that Jesus will institute a punishment far more severe upon your death should you die with an unforgiven mortal sin on your soul.
From a secular perspective, a good parent realizes that different approaches may be required to change behavior in your child. “Time outs” might work for one child, and may be totally ineffective for another. Likewise with spanking, it is highly effective for some kids and not effective for others. I have spanked my kids a total of about 5 times each, give or take.
My children themselves will tell you that spanking worked on them, and that they deserved it when I did it. For example, I had one child who decided to jump out of my car while it was parked at a busy gas station, and almost got hit by another car. The spanking he got conveyed a message a time out or lecture would not have. Smacking the hand of a small child getting ready to stick their finger in a light socket correlates pain with the light socket without the child actually getting electrocuted to get the message.
As for the long term effects of spanking, I can only from my perspective, spanking has contributed to my kids being exceptional young people, who are respectful of others. Both are straight A students, outstanding athletes, well adjusted, loving children who have no interpersonal issues. They are popular with their friends, and outside of two altercations with each other, they have never been in any fights. (So the argument that violence begets violence does not apply here either).
Sorry, but you opinion holds no water with me.
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Nec5
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Yeah, I guess I’m wrong because parenting is democratic.
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VeritasLuxMea
Guest
- Where is the proof? They have been saying things like this since the time of Plato. Provide some proof or it’s just nostalgia. Then show the causal link between not hitting our children and these items.
- With something like borderline personality disorder, you’re clearly missing the point. The word wasn’t even coined until 1938. That’s an extremely small window. Moreover, you have the same problem in regards to all of these psychological issues in general. Psychology has made rapid progress since 1950, and hardly even existed as a discipline in previous centuries.
- Incidentally, you’re not going to count parents hitting their children as “bullying”?
- You mention anything and everything that could be wrong with children of today, but what of the atrocities that children committed in the past that only rarely take place today in the West? (I won’t provide an entire list unless you request, surely you have some idea what I mean here…)
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VeritasLuxMea
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It is much more comforting psychologically to label oneself an “anti-democratic parent” than “a parent who hits children.”Yeah, I guess I’m wrong because parenting is democratic.
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VeritasLuxMea
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Apparently, He is, His followers appear well on board with the message. I’m one step out of the door of the Church to begin with, and maybe if that’s what it really comes down to… maybe I ought to just get out. A God who praises the child abuser is deserving of no worship.“Don’t fail to correct your children. They won’t die if you spank them. Physical discipline may well save them from death” (Proverbs 13:24)
Apparently God is an advocate of child abuse!
Fortunately, I doubt God is like the myths of old.
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pnewton
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No one is labeling themself as a parent who hits their child for the use of spanking. That is something others do. I prefer the term “loving parent,” as opposed to Sacred Scripture which says that he who spares the rod *hates *his son.
So, if the accusation is that I hit, bully or abuse my children based on a secular notion of what is right, I will go to the source of divine Truth and ask the question that Sacred Scripture (Proverbs 13:24) asks. Why does Towler and those who agree with him hate children so much?
I do not really believe that anyone here hates children, as the Proverb is obviously using hyperbole here. However, chastisement is a moral component of love. This is can take many forms, including physical, both with the children we love, and the people who God loves. Towler has an immature and short-sided understanding of parenting. Now in the interest of full disclosure, I will confess to an immature and short-sided understanding of God’s chastisement. Like the child who is spanked, I sometimes think that God is mean and fail to see the long term goal of heaven. Yet while I am here, and have a child still in my care, I will seek to love as God loves, even when that means inflicting pain on a child. The truth is, it is easier to spank in love than it is to use verbal chastisement in love, at least for me. As some one said earlier, the things we say can hurt far more and last much longer.
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VeritasLuxMea
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So the way that you express your love for your children is by hitting them? Let’s just be perfectly frank about this.
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shockerfan
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To be perfectly frank, YES. (See my post 63).
Of course I know the difference between “spanking” and mere “hitting” and the inexcusable “abuse”.
My kids would tell you that their parents love them, and they would also argue with you (quite effectively, I might add) about your position.
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pnewton
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No. I did not say what you are asking. If you wish to be frank, then do not resort to rhetoric. Spanking, hitting, some mild form of phyisical contact is an expression of my desire to see my child grow to be the best adult he can be.
You keep using the word “hitting”. This can be an expression of affection. Have you ever given anyone a high five, or a slap on the back? This is why rhetoric needs to be avoided. Without some respect for another’s opinion, communication is impossible. No one here is advocating hitting children, in the sense that this phrase is usually used.
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Hokomai
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Hitting, or physical assault is exactly what is going on here. whether the hitting or assual is justified or effective, or has unintended consequences is another matter. “Spanking” is a right-wing politically correct term used to obscure the facts.
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Scott_Lafrance
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If need be, yes. I’d prefer my kids get a smack on the butt than get run over by a car. Now, maybe giving them the lattitude to get run over by a car is much more democratic, but I think I will just stick with my way of handling things and enjoy the lives of my children.
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iamrefreshed
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As someone who was abused as a child (read beaten, bloodied, CPS intervention), I can genuinely say that the posters here who liken a spanking to abuse are clueless. And likely, childless.
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Scott_Lafrance
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Fine. If that is what you want to call it. I hit my kids when they need it. I still love them and they still love me. Does that make you feel better?
I physically assault my children when they have earned that priviledge. I’ve done if for all 4 of my kids, and none of them resent me for it. I have loving, close relationships with all of them. Now what? Does someone call child protective services?
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st_lucy
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This is my thoughts as well. All those who are calling a smack on the but abuse have no clue to what abuse really is and you are not being helpful to those children who are or have been abused. Please rethink you vocabulary for the sake of those who have been in a real life abusive home.
This is really upsetting to hear that there are those who have no clue to what real parenting is compared to what abusive parenting is Nd they are willing to lump it all into one group. As someone who was abused I can tell you that I find assaulting that some moroon off the street can see me (who has worked very hard to be the parent that I never had) and label me an abusive parent. A smack on the rump is not NOT the same as betting and it is very insensitive to say it is.
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pnewton
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This is about as correct historically as believing the Monroe Doctrine is the name of a Louisiana medical clinic. We were using the term “spanking” back in the sixties befor the idea political correctness existed. I use it because that is what the word has always been used for. Calling a spanking physical assault
is what is brand new with this younger generation. The idea that spanking was abusive is a brand new invention. Heck, we used to even have spanking in the public schools, not that I ever needed it.One caveat: I did on occassion equate being spanked with being eaten by an ogre, but in my defense, I was rather young at the time. Perhaps this is the source of miscommunication, a generational difference between those who have raise kids and those who have not yet done so. In any case, if we care about reality and not the world of make believe, this “hitting” and “assault” rhetoric is the new terminology, not the other way around.
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bbarrick8383
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Spanking has it’s own definition in a dictionary, they are two very different things.
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ringil
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Though, certainly what we call “spanking” is not abuse, perhaps there are more effective ways of shaping children’s behavior.
The fields of modern Psychology and child development have given us so much more understanding of how the cognitive and moral development of Children occurs. I believe that the insights gained therein have made spanking largely unneccessary.
Though spanking can shape kids behavior research shows that it may come with a price in the form of increased aggressiveness and non-internalized learning. Utilizing more effective and non-physical means gives the same behavoiral results without the costs associated with corporal punishment.
You would be hard pressed to find a child psychologist who wouldn’t steer parents away from using spanking and to more effective means.
Not everything practiced in the past is ideal and not everything of more modern origin is evil. I believe that this knee-jerk suspicion is guiding at least some of what is attaching posters to the use of spanking. Humans can and should benefit from advances in knowledge.
The fields of modern Psychology and child development have given us so much more understanding of how the cognitive and moral development of Children occurs. I believe that the insights gained therein have made spanking largely unneccessary.
Though spanking can shape kids behavior research shows that it may come with a price in the form of increased aggressiveness and non-internalized learning. Utilizing more effective and non-physical means gives the same behavoiral results without the costs associated with corporal punishment.
You would be hard pressed to find a child psychologist who wouldn’t steer parents away from using spanking and to more effective means.
Not everything practiced in the past is ideal and not everything of more modern origin is evil. I believe that this knee-jerk suspicion is guiding at least some of what is attaching posters to the use of spanking. Humans can and should benefit from advances in knowledge.
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iamrefreshed
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Do you see the dilemma you created with these two statements?
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