Comparative Religion and General Faith Discussion

[Servant19]

Yes me 2 hrs ago Servant, I think you are 3 hrs behind Means you have about 20 minutes, then feast Servant Feast!

Still an hour and 15 minutes left
Fish curry sounds wonderful

We are having around 10 youth who are doing Book 3 with us coming over to break the fast together! Prayers and feasting with some youth on fire with the Holy Spirit!

It’s a physical food and manna from heaven extravaganza…

Thank you Baha’u’llah!! Praise the Lord, what a blessing!

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[TonyBS]

Still an hour and 15 minutes left
Fish curry sounds wonderful

We are having around 10 youth who are doing Book 3 with us coming over to break the fast together! Prayers and feasting with some youth on fire with the Holy Spirit!

It’s a physical food and manna from heaven extravaganza…

Thank you Baha’u’llah!! Praise the Lord, what a blessing!

.

Now you have had your Material and started you spiritual Feast - God Bless you all - May come back through your neck of the woods in a month or so

Regards Tony

 

[Servant19]

Now you have had your Material and started you spiritual Feast - God Bless you all - May come back through your neck of the woods in a month or so

Regards Tony

Can’t wait to hug you for the first time brother!

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[ericc]

Hi eric

First of all. We believe in the same God as Christians so the inconsistencies He has shown to you from your perspective is the exact same inconsistencies that He has shown a Jew when looking at what Jesus taught.

Do you entertain a Jew that implies that the Christian God is different to the Jewish God? No!
It’s the same God. So there is no need for the “your God”/“my God” divisions…

There is a need to differentiate my God vs yours because your god taught very obviously differently things from my God. You insinuate my god Jesus lied when he claimed he died and rose again bodily for example. Yours taught that the universe is eternal whereas mine taught he created it. Obviously they are different.

In regards to Krishna etc, the reason I say there is a lack of authenticity on the Scripture is because there is teachings indicating monotheism and there are teachings indicating polytheism. I rebuked you because you are claiming as FACT that He taught polytheism.

In the Upanishads Krishna states: “And how many Gods are there? One.”

So please regard and take into account “authenticity”

My quote that Krishna prayed to another god Shiva is authentic isn’t it. You’d have 2 gods at least, him and Shiva. Unless Krishna doesn’t include himself as being one. Which would then render your claim that he is a God manifestation false. And which actually ties in with his statement that there is one god and it is not him. Or unless he claims this one god is him. Which isn’t supported by my quote that he prayed to another god Shiva. You just don’t have a leg to stand on this issue.

Same goes for Buddha and Zoroaster.

Authenticity increases with the Old and New Testaments and the Quran and the Baha’i Writings are all authenticated by Baha’u’llah Himself.

That is not true at all. When a later book abrogate a previous one and each one claiming more authenticity than the last one and teaching contradictory things. You just need the last one to jettison the previous. Which make this method of determine authenticity untenable. What credentials does Bahaullah has to authentic anything?

 

[dolphinlove]

Comparative religions? Isn’t this another Baha’i thread? Or is it the rampant proselytising the Baha’i are doing to a lot of the threads?

 

[Servant19]

Comparative religions? Isn’t this another Baha’i thread? Or is it the rampant proselytising the Baha’i are doing to a lot of the threads?

Please feel free to talk about any religion dolphinlove.

If there are questions being asked of the Bahais we will answer them here.

There is no proselytising in the answering of questions or the correction of inaccurate representations of the Baha’i religion

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[worldcitizen]

Comparative religions? Isn’t this another Baha’i thread? Or is it the rampant proselytising the Baha’i are doing to a lot of the threads?

Talk about any religion you like.

But if I were to ask your idea about anything you would give the catholic definition because you are Catholic. So we give our views according to how we understand life and religion.

 

[Servant19]

There is a need to differentiate my God vs yours because your god taught very obviously differently things from my God. You insinuate my god Jesus lied when he claimed he died and rose again bodily for example. Yours taught that the universe is eternal whereas mine taught he created it. Obviously they are different.

Can you show me what is the quote you have read that talks about an eternal universe please?

Just because an infinite God teaches different things doth not maketh a different God Eric.

An infinite God can teach infinite things as long as there is reasonable validation given. Same God Eric. I don’t insinuate any form of lie anywhere. It is our lack of sincere search for answers that causes us to claim our God is lying, just as some misinformed Jews claim about Jesus’ God.

My quote that Krishna prayed to another god Shiva is authentic isn’t it. You’d have 2 gods at least, him and Shiva. Unless Krishna doesn’t include himself as being one. Which would then render your claim that he is a God manifestation false. And which actually ties in with his statement that there is one god and it is not him. Or unless he claims this one god is him. Which isn’t supported by my quote that he prayed to another god Shiva. You just don’t have a leg to stand on this issue.

Can you give me one proof that Krishna ACTUALLY prayed to two gods?
Even any evidence that where you read this has an original copy from the time of Krishna please?

That is not true at all. When a later book abrogate a previous one and each one claiming more authenticity than the last one and teaching contradictory things. You just need the last one to jettison the previous. Which make this method of determine authenticity untenable. What credentials does Bahaullah has to authentic anything?

You mistake authenticity with Truth.
I don’t doubt the Truths contained in the Bible, nor in the Quran, but I don’t know for a fact that it is the exact Words spoken by Jesus or Muhammad.

If I sign a document with a transcript of my words written on the document, it holds more authentic value than if I was to tell someone those words and then they wrote it down later without my authentication signature.

Albeit, we cannot discount the power of the Holy Spirit which plays a supreme role in authentication of the Holy Bible and the Quran. I’m simply trying to be as balanced in my approach to this as possible.

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[worldcitizen]

Can’t wait to hug you for the first time brother!

.

My dear wife just brought me a container of grapes. And when I opened it I saw she had individually taken them all off the vine for me and chilled them.

She is from a village in Burma where they are all mostly Baha’is.

 

[ericc]

It seems, Eric, that whatever I post is “irrelevant” much to my dismay, since I am being sincere with my responses.

I guess from your post, you are unconvinced that Baha’u’llah is who He is. During His lifetime, in a Muslim country, where the transcendence of God is a central teaching, some of the leading clerics, indeed THE cleric for the Shah of Iran were quite happy to consider Him God. That’s not a claim Baha’u’llah made, that’s proven historical fact, as related by others (similar to the Gospel writers). Luckily, the history is recent enough for the memoirs of a large proportion of the followers of Baha’u’llah to be still available and accessible.

Anyway, I’m getting irrelevant again.

I’ll leave you with a link to read, from an official Baha’i source, (not some upset Christian with an axe to grind), which will help you decide on the Bab and Baha’u’llah for yourself:

reference.bahai.org/en/t/nz/DB/

.

The time when I state “irrelevant” is when you attempt to introduce new items which does not have a causative answer to the original questions that was asked. The new stuff that you attempt to introduce may have some similarities but in themselves have no explanatory answer to the original questions. That is a fallacious tactic often used and I urge you not to waste time on those tactics. What is true for the new stuff is independent of the old stuff.

I welcome you to start a new thread on new items rather than impinge on the existing.

Let me give you another example on the irrelevancy of “THE cleric for the Shah of Iran were quite happy to consider Him God.”. This has no bearing on whether Bahaullah is in fact god or not. The cleric is not a credible person to declare such things. The cleric may be happy today and be unhappy the next day. He may be mistaken today and changed his mind later. A thousand other people may think the opposite who may be of very high positions as well. Those in Saudi Arabia doesn’t think Bahaullah is God manifest as well as a billion Christians and Hindus and few hundred millions of Buddhists and Muslims worldwide.

I know you worked very hard to accommodate me. But sadly your answers though numerous do not address the key issues that I have highlighted. And all this stem from the very initial questions that I posed.

1. Where does the Bible named Mohammed and Ali as the 2 witnesses in Rev.
2. And why is Ali nominated as the second witness and not Abu Bakr, or Uthman or Umar. Why a Shite and not a Sunni. Or any 2 other witnesses. How were these 2 names determined and by who?

I am trying very hard to get Bahais to retract that untruth about the Bible. Why won’t anyone do the correct thing? If your Holy Book quote it, then attribute that to your Holy Book and not our Bible. I don’t go to your Holy Book and make false claims about your book say. But I can say that we disagree with your interpretations of our Bible. Or that your teachings about our faith is erroneous. I guess I’d have to just go around criticising the Bahai Faith for making such an untrue statement and which is not good for your faith.

 

[Servant19]

My dear wife just brought me a container of grapes. And when I opened it I saw she had individually taken them all off the vine for me and chilled them.

She is from a village in Burma where they are all mostly Baha’is.

What a blessing she is in your life David. God bless her

.

 

[worldcitizen]

Ericc.

You make a great grammarian! But being a mystic is better.

                                                  **The First Valley**

The story is told of a mystic knower, who went on a journey with a learned grammarian as his companion. They came to the shore of the Sea of Grandeur. The knower straightway flung himself into the waves, but the grammarian stood lost in his reasonings, which were as words that are written on water. The knower called out to him, “Why dost thou not follow?” The grammarian answered, “O Brother, I dare not advance. I must needs go back again.” Then the knower cried, “Forget what thou didst read in the books of Síbávayh and Qawlavayh, of Ibn-i-Hajíb and Ibn-i-Málik, and cross the water.” - Seven Valleys & Four Valleys Baha’u’llah
*

*The death of self is needed here, not rhetoric:
Be nothing, then, and walk upon the waves.

 

[worldcitizen]

This prophecy of the Bible is astonishing. According to verified archeological findings the Bible’s prophecy got it right to within 46km!!! Astounding!! The bricks found confirming the Capitol of Elam were 46km from Shiraz where the Bab proclaimed His Mission and God set His Throne. Incredibly accurate.

Jeremiah .49:38

I will set my throne in Elam, and will destroy from thence the king and the princes, saith the LORD.

In the early 1970s, inscribed bricks were discovered at the archaeological site of Tal-i Malyan near Shiraz in the highlands of Fars which proved that it was the ancient city of Anshan

(The Archeology of Elam)

Anshan (Persian: انشان‎‎ Anšan, Elamite Anzan), modern Tall-i Malyan, was an ancient city in Iran. The site is located 46 km north of Shiraz, in the Beyza/Ramjerd plain, in the province of Fars in the Zagros mountains, south-western Iran. (Wikipedia)

Declaration of the Báb took place on the evening of May 22, 1844, in his house in Shiraz. (Wiki)

 

[MartinJordan]

Martin you need to prove that Jesus ALONE satisfied the Fathers eternal love.

That is an absolutist comment made for dividing Gods creation.

Lacks understanding of the meaning of the Eternal Logos.

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What absolute comment?

Have you anything specific to comment from John Paul II encyclical I provided?

MJ

 

[Techno2000]

Thank you Joey,

Ok so my understanding is the false prophet, false Christ and wolf in sheeps clothing is materialism and consumerism. Because they promise ‘happiness’. “Buy this and all your troubles will be over”…

And they come on tv as such nice ‘lambs’ dressed in short skirts trying to sell a car or even poison one with alcohol. They dance, wiggle a bit and then they gradually become the "new Christ’. Attracting men to their caves of desire.

Trust me they say. I can give you everything they say…(just hand over your soul) and so the night clubs and brothels and casinos entice man into a ‘false paradise’ of sin.

This is the false religion of today - materialism.

No the sin is deception, fooling people to make them believe that they are the true Messiah, that is the bad fruit.

 

[Servant19]

What absolute comment?

Have you anything specific to comment from John Paul II encyclical I provided?

MJ

Yes, my comment is that Jesus alone is not the only one who has satisfied the Fathers eternal love.

I didn’t read beyond that sentence.

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[MartinJordan]

Thank you Joey,

Ok so my understanding is the false prophet, false Christ and wolf in sheeps clothing is materialism and consumerism. Because they promise ‘happiness’. “Buy this and all your troubles will be over”…

And they come on tv as such nice ‘lambs’ dressed in short skirts trying to sell a car or even poison one with alcohol. They dance, wiggle a bit and then they gradually become the "new Christ’. Attracting men to their caves of desire.

Trust me they say. I can give you everything they say…(just hand over your soul) and so the night clubs and brothels and casinos entice man into a ‘false paradise’ of sin.

This is the false religion of today - materialism.

Worldcitizen how about completing St. Paul’s exhortation? I’m waiting.

MJ

 

[Servant19]

Worldcitizen how about completing St. Paul’s exhortation? I’m waiting.

MJ

Martin,

Post #433

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[worldcitizen]

No the sin is deception, fooling people to make them believe that they are the true Messiah, that is the bad fruit.

Materialism and consumerism have got more followers than all the world religions combined. Nuff said. Clear as day. The $$$ is God. Ask people if they can live without the $ or God and they will say that they don’t need God but NEED $$ and their car and TV and video games but not God.

 

[worldcitizen]

Martin,

Post #433

.

I posted the entire chapter.