Comparative Religion and General Faith Discussion

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Servant19 said:
Go read the Quran Martin…

It’s really tiresome this prejudice!

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I’ve lived with Muslims all my life. No prejudice what so ever.

Infact it was a Muslim who saved my family including myself when we Tamils were ostracized and abused in a country of our birth. He took us to refuge. Just two suitcases and hardly any money.

I am till today happy to call him my father too.

I love Muslims don’t ever ever forget that.

Peace be with you, I pray.

MJ
 
MartinJordan said:
I’ve lived with Muslims all my life. No prejudice what so ever.

Infact it was a Muslim who saved my family including myself when we Tamils were ostracized and abused in a country of our birth. He took us to refuge. Just two suitcases and hardly any money.

I am till today happy to call him my father too.

I love Muslims don’t ever ever forget that.

Peace be with you, I pray.

MJ
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And this is exactly what I am talking about

You think those Muslims saved your family because they read the Bible? It stems from Muhammad and the Quran.
Imagine how that family would feel if they heard you tell them “But Muhammad is your Manifestation of God. What happened?”

You would never say that to a Muslim. And that’s why it is an internal contradiction to be a Christian in this day.

Peace be with you.

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Servant19 said:
And this is exactly what I am talking about

You think those Muslims saved your family because they read the Bible? It stems from Muhammad and the Quran.
Imagine how that family would feel if they heard you tell them “But Muhammad is your Manifestation of God. What happened?”

You would never say that to a Muslim. And that’s why it is an internal contradiction to be a Christian in this day.

Peace be with you.

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No. Because we were friends (our grandfathers knew each other), trading and visiting one another’s homes.

Why should I say that to a Muslim?

MJ
 
MartinJordan said:
No. Because we were friends (our grandfathers knew each other), trading and visiting one another’s homes.

Have you actually told a Muslim, Mohammed is manifestation of God?

MJ
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Let us not get tangled with semantics 🙂

Why would a Muslim even become friends with a non-believer? And to even go so far as saving them??

Where do they learn such love?

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Servant19 said:
Let us not get tangled with semantics 🙂

Why would a Muslim even become friends with a non-believer? And to even go so far as saving them??

Where do they learn such love?

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Not from Jesus, because my Muslims friends tell me he’s not God. Yes, even my “father” (who I spoke about) told that to me.

I pray for him regardless because every human deserves dignity and Jesus tells us to be merciful.

MJ
 
Servant19 said:
Let us not get tangled with semantics 🙂

Why would a Muslim even become friends with a non-believer? And to even go so far as saving them??

Where do they learn such love?

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Servant, It could be persons conscience to do good. As in the Catechism of the Catholic Church 46 " When he listens to the message of creation and to the voice of conscience, man can arrive at certainty about the existence of God, the cause and the end of everything"

As conscience comes from God.This love would also would of been from God. Not necessarily Muhammad
 
JimmyDFG said:
Servant, It could be persons conscience to do good. As in the Catechism of the Catholic Church 46 " When he listens to the message of creation and to the voice of conscience, man can arrive at certainty about the existence of God, the cause and the end of everything"

As conscience comes from God.This love would also would of been from God. Not necessarily Muhammad
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Indeed, love becomes “not love” when there is an indoctrination that breeds “not love”

How did that Muslim family remain so loving while being indoctrinated with only the Quran, and not the Bible?

Surely if a child is born with a conscience of love, but is raised to hate and kill and not love unbelievers, then Martin’s family would be neglected in their time of need?

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Servant19 said:
Indeed, love becomes “not love” when there is an indoctrination that breeds “not love”

How did that Muslim family remain so loving while being indoctrinated with only the Quran, and not the Bible?

Surely if a child is born with a conscience of love, but is raised to hate and kill and not love unbelievers, then Martin’s family would be neglected in their time of need?
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As I said Servant, our grandparents were friends and traded with each other. As Tamils despite being Catholics (most Tamils are Hindus in my country of birth - a Buddhist country if you must know) , we minorities suffered.

This Muslim friend left the country few years before and moved to a Muslim country as he also took refuge) and he called us to leave as well (we both are minorities). So we had things in common and he knew we were going through abuse.

Praise God, they happen to allow Catholics to worship with several Catholic churches in this Musllim country and we felt right at home. People in general just want to worship, live and work in peace.

MJ
 
Servant19 said:
Indeed, love becomes “not love” when there is an indoctrination that breeds “not love”

How did that Muslim family remain so loving while being indoctrinated with only the Quran, and not the Bible?

Surely if a child is born with a conscience of love, but is raised to hate and kill and not love unbelievers, then Martin’s family would be neglected in their time of need?

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You’re asking a question only he knows, It could of been for a number of reasons.
But I’ll like to add, Thank God Martin and his family were saved
 
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The point is dear friends, that while Catholics are praying for love and for the ushering in of the Kingdom, it is the Bahais that are breaking down the veils and walls of all that does not belong in the Kingdom.

This work is directed towards Muslims and Christians and Jews, (in fact all religious adherents) who, although they may have encountered incredible acts of love from people of different religions, still have the gall before God to say that it was not the relevant Messenger of God that taught that love but “another” Source.

How appallingly ungodly, and how much work we Bahais have to do. May the Holy Spirit give us increasing power, increasing courage and increasing patience to be able to remove the flesh-ridden spirit that is hindering the unveiling of His Kingdom.

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eddie_too said:
the bahai here fill their writings with the word love.

this begs the question, what is the bahai definition of love?

any bahai is welcome to provide that definition to the rest of us if they can agree upon a definition of love among themselves.
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The definition of love

Saturday, January 4th, 1913
THE FOUR KINDS OF LOVE
Cadogan Gardens, London

58.1
What a power is love! It is the most wonderful, the greatest of all living powers.

58.2
Love gives life to the lifeless. Love lights a flame in the heart that is cold. Love brings hope to the hopeless and gladdens the hearts of the sorrowful.

58.3
In the world of existence there is indeed no greater power than the power of love. When the heart of man is aglow with the flame of love, he is ready to sacrifice all – even his life. In the Gospel it is said God is love.

58.4
There are four kinds of love. The first is the love that flows from God to man; it consists of the inexhaustible graces, the Divine effulgence and heavenly illumination. Through this love the world of being receives life. Through this love man is endowed with physical existence, until, through the breath of the Holy Spirit – this same love – he receives eternal life and becomes the image of the Living God. This love is the origin of all the love in the world of creation.

58.5
The second is the love that flows from man to God. This is faith, attraction to the Divine, enkindlement, progress, entrance into the Kingdom of God, receiving the Bounties of God, illumination with the lights of the Kingdom. This love is the origin of all philanthropy; this love causes the hearts of men to reflect the rays of the Sun of Reality.

58.6
The third is the love of God towards the Self or Identity of God. This is the transfiguration of His Beauty, the reflection of Himself in the mirror of His Creation. This is the reality of love, the Ancient Love, the Eternal Love. Through one ray of this Love all other love exists.

58.7
The fourth is the love of man for man. The love which exists between the hearts of believers is prompted by the ideal of the unity of spirits. This love is attained through the knowledge of God, so that men see the Divine Love reflected in the heart. Each sees in the other the Beauty of God reflected in the soul, and finding this point of similarity, they are attracted to one another in love. This love will make all men the waves of one sea, this love will make them all the stars of one heaven and the fruits of one tree. This love will bring the realization of true accord, the foundation of real unity.

58.8
But the love which sometimes exists between friends is not (true) love, because it is subject to transmutation; this is merely fascination. As the breeze blows, the slender trees yield. If the wind is in the East the tree leans to the West, and if the wind turns to the West the tree leans to the East. This kind of love is originated by the accidental conditions of life. This is not love, it is merely acquaintanceship; it is subject to change.
~ Abdu'l-Baha,
 
Servant19 said:
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The point is dear friends, that while Catholics are praying for love and for the ushering in of the Kingdom, it is the Bahais that are breaking down the veils and walls of all that does not belong in the Kingdom.

This work is directed towards Muslims and Christians and Jews, (in fact all religious adherents) who, although they may have encountered incredible acts of love from people of different religions, still have the gall before God to say that it was not the relevant Messenger of God that taught that love but “another” Source.

How appallingly ungodly, and how much work we Bahais have to do. May the Holy Spirit give us increasing power, increasing courage and increasing patience to be able to remove the flesh-ridden spirit that is hindering the unveiling of His Kingdom.

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I truly hope the Holy Spirit gives the true meaning of Christ to the Baha’i and muslims. The Truth in his birth/life, death and the Resurrection. The Truth about Pentecost, The Parousia and the Truth in the Gospel.

John14:6
Jesus said: I am the Way; I am Truth and Life. No one can come to the Father except through me

No other. only Jesus

Truth
 
Servant19 said:
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The point is dear friends, that while Catholics are praying for love and for the ushering in of the Kingdom, it is the Bahais that are breaking down the veils and walls of all that does not belong in the Kingdom.

This work is directed towards Muslims and Christians and Jews, (in fact all religious adherents) who, although they may have encountered incredible acts of love from people of different religions, still have the gall before God to say that it was not the relevant Messenger of God that taught that love but “another” Source.

How appallingly ungodly, and how much work we Bahais have to do. May the Holy Spirit give us increasing power, increasing courage and increasing patience to be able to remove the flesh-ridden spirit that is hindering the unveiling of His Kingdom.

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Firstly you can’t speak about the Catholic Church without understanding her. And it’s trials to spread the Gospel of Christ. Even basic question about the Mass is not even understood. Just very odd.

MJ
 
JimmyDFG said:
Servant, It could be persons conscience to do good. As in the Catechism of the Catholic Church 46 " When he listens to the message of creation and to the voice of conscience, man can arrive at certainty about the existence of God, the cause and the end of everything"

As conscience comes from God.This love would also would of been from God. Not necessarily Muhammad
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👍👍👍

**Even Gentiles, who do not have God’s written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it. They demonstrate that God’s law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right.

Romans 2-14**
 
Servant19 said:
Well I must therefore ask what exactly are you looking for that is relevant for you to consider Baha’u’llah’s station?

Where in the Old Testament does it say that Jesus is the Messiah?
Where in the Old Testament does it state that Elijah will not return bodily but in “spirit and power” ?

This is what I mean Eric. The seeming inconsistencies of God exist from the dawn of religion, but somehow it is “relevant” for Christianity to explain things the way it chooses to, going against Jewish interpretation and yet it is “irrelevant” for the Baha’i religion to explain things it chooses to.

Go figure…

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Since I am not getting the answers to the questions asked about Mohammed and Ali quoted in the Bible as claimed by Bahais, I think these will not be forthcoming at all. More irrelevant diversions are are just time wasters as seen above. Therefore I will bow out at this juncture unless there is an update on the Mohammed and Ali claims.

As mentioned before, open new threads for new claims/questions. I may participate if there is value add.

Oh, as a Bahai you can interpret things as you so choose. But to the point of making false and misleading claims? That is why I worry for you. Any one can make claims but expect to back it up. The thing is you don’t. So isn’t the best way out is if you can’t back it up, don’t make a false claim? Bearing false witness is one of the “don’ts” in the 10 commandments. Consequences are extremely nasty. So, I’ll leave you to ponder over what I just wrote.

Hope you find truth eventually.
 
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