Comparing the Koran with the Bible

[flower_of_God]

The earlier prophets and their books were sent to a particular people in particular periods of history. Once the period ended, a new prophet was sent with a new book to replace the previous book. So, it was not necessary that these books be preserved by Allah. The preservation of the earlier books was left up to the people as a test for them. Thus, when the people went astray, they changed what was written in the books which their prophets brought in order to make allowable the things which were forbidden to them. In that way, all of the earlier books of revelation became either changed or lost.
**
Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was the last prophet whom Allah sent**, and he was not sent to a particular people or a particular time. He was sent to all of mankind until the end of the world. Allah said in the Quran,

“I have only sent you (Muhammad) as a giver of glad tidings and a warner to all mankind, but most men do not understand.”[Noble Quran 34:28]
Thus, his book of revelation, the Quran, had to be specially preserved from any form of change or loss so that it would be available to all the generations of man until the last day of the world.

The Quran was the main miracle given to Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) to prove that he was a true prophet of Allah and not an imposter. So, the Quran had to be saved to prove to the later generations that Muhammad (peace be upon him) was really the last prophet of Allah. All of the false prophets who came after Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) brought books which they claimed to be revealed from Allah, but none of them have the miraculous ability to be memorized by thousands, nor have they improved on the message of the Quran. The significance of the Quran’s preservation is that Islam has been kept in its original purity because of it. Humanity can always return to the sources of Islam no matter what people may have added or forgotten in time. All of the essential principles of Islam are to be found in the Quran.
Consequently, the preservation of the Quran meant the preservation of Islam in its final form. The loss of the Gospel of Jesus means that Christians can never return to the true teachings of Prophet Jesus except by accepting Islam. Similarly, the original Torah was lost when Solomon’s Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed by the Babylonians. Thus, the Jews cannot return to the pure teachings of Prophet Moses except by following Islam. It is only in Islam that the pure teachings of the prophets have been preserved without any change.

allahsquran.com/quran_divine_book.php

What exactly makes him a prophet? Analyse his life and tell us what are the characteristics which can make him a prophet?

You do know that we donnot consider him a prophet, neither we recognise the divine sourse of the Coran.

 

[elwill]

is that your opinion or reality?

Muslims say they believe in all prophets but what is the use of thei belief if what they preached was never going to be used by muslims?

i never said that
do you know that our prophet (pbuh) said
'The most beloved fasting to Allah was the fasting of (the Prophet) David, who used to fast alternate days. And the most beloved prayer to Allah was the prayer of David, who used to sleep for (the first) half of the night and pray for one third of it and (again) sleep for a sixth of it."Sahih Al-Bukhari

we consider all prophets of God as perfect example to us to follow

And if so why are they following the practices of old, like sacrifice which Abraham did with isaac? There was no need. But by following the practices of OT, and than believing in prophets just for name sake is quite odd, if allah wanted only the book revealed to mohammed to be the well preserved book.

you said by yourself that we believe in all prophets of God , then why not following them in the aspects where mohammed (pbuh) teached us !

 

[elwill]

But what about the RCC? We never claimed that we brought books. We do claim Yes that the Bible is the inspired word of God, but it is not needed for our faith. We have the Holy Spirit to lead us to truth.

well it’s not effective way to convince otheres with your truth then ,
every sect in christianity procalim that holy spirit lead it’s church
their is must be another way to find out the truth , and i suggest deep studing of these records and studying history of church will clear out the nearst to the truth even if you don’t need bible for your faith

You agree that Jesus was a true Prophet correct? If you agree with this, and you do agree that he was the Son of God why would you feel that we need books to teach his word then. Jesus never said read books. Jesus the True Son of God said listen to the CHURCH. How does you faith get around that one?

i believe that jesus is the son of God in the same sense where this word used by jews in OT to refere to rightious servants and prophets of God

anyway which church jesus talked about ? theire are many of them and they are all contradicts each other

 

[elwill]

That is quiet simple. We believe the words of Jesus Christ. He said I will be leaving you soon, but I will be sending you the Advocate the Holy Spirit to lead you to all truth. The Holy Spirit cannot lead us astray.

Christian’s never had to rely on Gospels. We as Roman Catholic rely on the CHURCH the living word to lead us to all truth. The word of God does not say that the gospels are the basic pillar of our faith. The word of God says the Church is the Pillar of All Faith. Actually the gosple says that the word is good to read

If you took every word written and burned it, it would never end the teaching’s of the Church. Because the Holy Spirit does not use Books to teach. The Holy Spirit is the living CHrist speaking to us through the Living Church.

First Tim. 4:14 Do not neglect the gift you have, which was conferred on you through the prophetic word with the imposition of hand of the presbyterate. (that gift is the Gift of the Holy Spirit given to the leaders of the Church to preach and teach his word.) Attend to yourself and to your teaching, preserve in both tasks for by doing so you will save both yourself and those who listen to you.

actually that’s what i can define as a corruption of the original massage of jesus , you just replaced it with church , and made church superior to words of jesus

 

[viveret]

every sect in christianity procalim that holy spirit lead it’s church

I think that there are a few Christian sects that do not believe in the Blessed Trinity, and thus have no concept of the Holy Spirit.
There are people who believe that the Eucharist is no more than a memorial commanded by God.
The presence of the Holy Spirit is not very powerful in the lives of the Puritans, for example.
If anything, they were more amenable to the existence of evil spirits than the Holy Spirit.
They always needed something to point to and say “We’re not this.”

 

[viveret]

actually that’s what i can define as a corruption of the original massage of jesus , you just replaced it with church , and made church superior to words of jesus

Many Protestants say this.

 

[flower_of_God]

well it’s not effective way to convince otheres with your truth then ,
every sect in christianity procalim that holy spirit lead it’s church
their is must be another way to find out the truth , and i suggest deep studing of these records and studying history of church will clear out the nearst to the truth even if you don’t need bible for your faith

i believe that jesus is the son of God in the same sense where this word used by jews in OT to refere to rightious servants and prophets of God

anyway which church jesus talked about ? theire are many of them and they are all contradicts each other

There are a lot of quotes saying that Jesus is Son of GOD. Don’t forget Jesus mentioned about HIS Kingdom. What serve of GOD would ever dare to talk in this way about himself?

Second: the churches may have some differences, but the main ideas are the same: Jesus is the Son of GOD, Jesus is GOD, the second Person of the Holy Trinity.

 

[rinnie]

actually that’s what i can define as a corruption of the original massage of jesus , you just replaced it with church , and made church superior to words of jesus

Thats where you are wrong. The Church is not Superior to Jesus just as Jesus is not Superior to the Church.

That is like saying my mother is superior to my mother. If I only have one Mother how can one be superior to another.

The same with Jesus and his Church. They are one. Jesus is one with the Church. There is one God made up of 3 persons. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. One in being with the Father. All are one. In the bible it states before Abraham I AM!

 

[rinnie]

well it’s not effective way to convince otheres with your truth then ,
every sect in christianity procalim that holy spirit lead it’s church
their is must be another way to find out the truth , and i suggest deep studing of these records and studying history of church will clear out the nearst to the truth even if you don’t need bible for your faith

i believe that jesus is the son of God in the same sense where this word used by jews in OT to refere to rightious servants and prophets of God

anyway which church jesus talked about ? theire are many of them and they are all contradicts each other

No. Not the RCC. Jesus built the CC on Peter. He said upon this Rock I will build my Church and the gates of hades will not prevail. St Peter was the leader of the RCC. He has passed the Church down from the time of Jesus. On the first day of the Church at Pentecost the Holy Spirit came upon the Church that was led by Peter. The RCC is still led by the Pope today that was passed down from Peter. It can be traced.

 

[rinnie]

well it’s not effective way to convince otheres with your truth then ,
every sect in christianity procalim that holy spirit lead it’s church
their is must be another way to find out the truth , and i suggest deep studing of these records and studying history of church will clear out the nearst to the truth even if you don’t need bible for your faith

i believe that jesus is the son of God in the same sense where this word used by jews in OT to refere to rightious servants and prophets of God

anyway which church jesus talked about ? theire are many of them and they are all contradicts each other

How do you claim that studying these records could show you the truth. Especially if you believe that these records are corrupt? If you do not trust the Jews and the Christians to give you the truth in the O.T and the N.T. where do you feel that Muhammad got them then?

The Qur’an speaks ofthe bible in High terms, but then Muslims do not read the bible?? Why not?

Like here is a good one. It is the duty of the Muslim to believe in the scriptures and in those messengers of God.

O believers believe In God and His messenger and in the scripture that he brought down to his messengers and in the Scripture that he revealed before. He who disbelieves in God and his angels and his scriptures and his messengers and the Last Day, indeed in great error. (4:135/136.)

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

Elwill, you haven’t responded to my response to your post here:

it was his plane to reserve only the massage of his last prophet

Why, and where is that written?

 

[John_Paul_Jones]

and i suggest deep studing of these records and studying history of church will clear out the nearst to the truth even if you don’t need bible for your faith

You still need The Bible, it is the base of Faith and Worship. Scripture is referenced in all the official teachings of the Church and use in the Liturgy, the Mass.

i believe that Jesus is the son of God in the same sense where this word used by jews in OT to refere to rightious servants and prophets of God

“The sons of God” is generally a term found in the Old Testament that is used for angels. The angels are created, while the Son of God is eternally begotten. But of all the angels (the sons of God) that live in heaven there is only one begotten Son of God, Jesus Christ.

anyway which church Jesus talked about ? theire are many of them and they are all contradicts each other

“The Church of Christ.” Jesus Christ establish one church there are various and complicated reasons why churches break away from each other. The Catholic Church always maintained it has teaches all Truths that have been revealed to her through Divine Revelation both through scripture and tradition.

 

[scottm]

wwolverine:

Ok can you show how it works so that we can read it your way? Show the verses, and than show us how to read them.

Yep, now that the company is gone, I have some time.

Cubsfan:

To be honest I am sitting in Afghanistan having Rockets launched at me on a daily basis by good muslims, so I am a bit jaundiced. How they view Jesus shows that they do not want to dialogue with us just convert us or eliminate us.

Well, I don’t mean to sound smug, so don’t take this wrong, but I’m distinguishing people from their religion. I don’t get the impression that you are making that distinction. For this same reason I don’t say that the Dove World Outreach pastor in Florida (the Koran-burning guy) represents the religion of Christianity, nor do I say that homosexual child-molesting priests represent Roman Catholicism. A long time ago I learned to distinguish the ideals of a religion from the misfirings of its church attendees. Pews are filled with hypocrites, as I sure you already know.

Philemon was a proof-text for slavery 150 years ago. No Christian minister today would read it that way. Why not? Did the Bible itself change? Did God change? What changed? For every warm fuzzy love verse in the Bible that you choose, I can pluck a “kill them!” mean nasty verse, and not only in the OT. Jesus talked about sending people to hell too. So which set represents the real God: the warm fuzzies, or the mean nasties?

The Koran is the same. Yes, somewhere the Koran says in effect, “Kill your enemies.” But so does the book of Joshua. General Joshua killed a whole bunch of enemies because God told him too. Elsewhere the Koran has words to the effect, “Do not molest Jews or Christians, because they are your brothers. And be nice to everyone, because God loves everyone.” Those verses read rather like Paul’s NT writings. Well, does Joshua have to eclipse Paul? In Mark Twain’s America did Philemon have to be read as condoning slavery? I answer “no” and then I approach the Koran the same way I approach the Bible, and then I distinguish nut-case Moslem terrorists the same way I distinguish homosexual pedophile priests.

 

[scottm]

rinnie:

I disagree with you. Let me quote you something. [snipped]

Byzantine_Wolf:

Let me quote a few key verses for Christians to ponder over. [snipped]

And John Paul Jones offered a verse too.

Okay, let’s do it. First let’s be done with the easy differences, so they won’t distract us with the hard differences.

The Koran shames the Bible with respect to prayer. There are way more calls to prayer in the Koran than in the Bible. The Koran makes a huge importance of prayer. You’d almost think a monk wrote it, it talks so much about prayer.

The Koran has some stories that the Bible doesn’t have. It talks about several nations that I can’t even identify. But you know, I’m pretty sure Canada is not in the Bible. For that matter neither is Jamaica – or even the USA. But I’m pretty sure those countries exist. And I’m pretty sure that a long time ago, there were countries beyond those mentioned in the Bible. None of this makes a difference.

The Koran says that Mary birthed Jesus under a tree. That’s fine. My wife was standing up when she birthed two of our three children. She walked around the room a lot before the babies came out. No big deal.

The Koran says that Jesus turned some clay into a bird. That’s fine too. The gospels record like 0.00001% of his life from birth until his baptism by cousin John, and as I know children, I’m quite willing to believe that Jesus had occasional moments of fun with his God-powers.

Curiously, Joseph the wife of Mary and adopted father of Jesus is not mentioned in the Koran, but I don’t think the disciples of Jesus are either. The Koran is quite clear that Jesus was a major, major, major prophet of Allah/God, yet it doesn’t name any disciples that he had. Well, come on – a Moslem can assume that a prophet of that caliber had some disciples (as if the historical record of how the Christian church started isn’t enough!!), and they can accept the Bible stories about Joseph.

The Koran published today is word-for-word the Koran written by Mohammad. Those crazy Arab Moslems preserved it. Those crazy Jewish and Gentile Christians did not preserve word-for-word our New Testament (not that I doubt the legitimacy of it one bit). Score one for the Moslems.

Let’s lay out some similarities between the Koran and the Bible. All of these next points are in both books.

Allah created the world in six days out of nothing. He spoke, and things came into existence.

Jesus is alive in heaven and will return at the end of time to judge us. Yes, Jesus is coming back. To judge us. Wow.

Jesus preached “the gospel” to Israel.

Jesus was born to Mary, and Mary was a virgin. Allah caused her to become pregnant with his word: Allah said, “Let it be!” and she was pregnant. Simple as that.

The several sons of Jacob son of Isaac son of Abraham, collectively became the Twelve Tribes of Israel. And this nation Israel was God’s chosen nation. And they were called Jews, and collectively they were God’s chosen people. And Moses, a Jew, gave them “the Law.” And David, one of their great kings, wrote the Psalms. And David’s son Solomon was also a great king over Israel.

Both the OT and the Koran have lots of killings. Both of them. Well come on, with all the killings in the Bible we ought to be very very very reluctant to criticize the killings in the Koran.

The Koran reads like the Bible (OT and NT both) with respect to its calls to repentance. Over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, and then some more, and then some more, Allah calls people to repentance and peace and love. The “love your neighbor” command is in there over and over and over and over again in various phrasings. Repent repent repent repent is in there over and over again.

There is only one God in the whole universe. Just one.

We’re supposed to follow the OT and the NT, both. The Koran explicitly and repeatedly, more times than a person wants to count, references the OT and NT. This matters. This is the key to the Koran. I’m holding onto it.

 

[scottm]

Alright, we can find more similarities, but let’s talk about the big differences. We’ll now read the Koran in the light of the Bible, because (a) the Koran came after the Bible, and (b) **the Koran explicitly says that we’re supposed to read the Bible\b], and (c) the Koran explicitly says that it contains the same message as what was given by all those OT and NT characters.

1) The Koran denies that Allah “begat” or “begets” any children. My dictionary says that means “sire” a child. This comes up in several verses, some of which specifically say Allah doesn’t marry or mate. Spouses set the context for two reasons. First, we are taught as Christians that if the Bible speaks on a given subject 27 times, we have to address all 27 verses together, as a single unit, when we interpret that subject. Remember also that the Koran explicitly and repeatedly, more times than a person wants to count, references back to the Bible. This means that we have to read these begetting verses as a set, and we have to read them next to the Bible.

Implication: When the Koran talks about Allah not having wives it’s not talking about Jesus. It’s talking about Zeus and Poseidon and so on, taking mortal women. That is the context when you talk about wives for Allah while simultaneously referencing the Bible. And we’re supposed to reference the Bible: the Koran told us to.
Once we mention a wife for God, we’re not talking about the Christian God. It is an explicit teaching of Christianity that God does not ever and has not ever mated with a human woman – or any other type of woman for that matter. The Koran and the Bible are in agreement.

That was perhaps too swift and sneaky. This next argument is simpler: Obviously this “begetting” does not apply to Jesus because the Koran itself asserts that Allah seeded the virgin Mary by his word. Allah spoke, and Mary was pregnant with Jesus. Poof. That’s what the Koran itself says, and the Koran cannot contradict itself, so these verses about Allah not begetting any sons cannot be taken against Jesus.

Problem solved.

2) The Koran says there is no “trinity.” It says this more than once, and some of those verses specifically identify the trinity as including Mary the mother of Jesus in the godhead. When the Bible has 27 verses on a given subject, we read all 27 together. When the Koran tells us to refer back to the Bible, we refer back to the Bible. Do it. If Mary is the mother of Jesus, and Jesus is the son of God, then Mary must be the wife of God, right? That is the impression that the Koran gives, and the Koran specifically says that is blasphemous heresy. But every Christian will agree that (a) Mary is not part of the trinity, and (b) she is not the wife of God.

In effect then, and truthfully, the Koran is not speaking against the Christian trinity of the Nicene Creed. The Koran is silent on the Christian trinity of the Nicene Creed. It is speaking against a heretical concept of the trinity that every Christian would condemn.

Problem solved.

3) The Koran says that Jesus did not die on the cross. And Christians say that Jesus is God. Alright, take this one slowly.

What would Moses say if you suggested to him that Yahweh died? Or even that Yahweh could die?

Moses would say you’re wrong.

What would Abraham say in response to the same question?
Abraham would say you’re wrong.

What would King David say?
He’d say you’re wrong.

Elijah? Elisha? Isaiah? John the Baptist? How about Noah?
They’d all say you’re wrong.

Let’s ask a Christian: Did God die?

No. We’re splitting narrow concepts now, and in a sense playing with words, but in reality the creator of life itself did not die on the cross. The creator of life itself cannot die, did not die, and will not ever die. In that sense, to the degree that Jesus was and is God, Jesus did not die. To the extent that he was a human, though – that’s different.

The manner in which Jesus could be human and God at the same time puzzled the Church Fathers greatly. This was a huge dilemma in the early centuries of Christianity. It had still not been fully hammered out in ecumenical councils when Mohammad was writing the Koran, and even after the ecumenical councils handed down their decisions heresies lived on. (Even still today Jehovahs Witnesses and Mormons are teaching non-Christian ideas about Jesus’ divinity.)

Repeating this thought, if we say that Jesus is God, then we have to also say that Jesus did not die on the cross, in some way. People thought he was altogether fully in every respect dead, sure. His mother Mary and his friends buried him, come on. We all celebrate the death of Jesus at Easter/Pascha. But it was only his human part. There was a part of him, his divine part, that never died – we have to affirm that as Christians, because we have to affirm that Life Itself cannot die.

Splitting hairs, maybe, but I am unaware of a single theologian in the history of Christianity who genuinely understood the nature and mind of God. It is with good reason that the Orthodox church and Eastern Catholicism speaks of the “mysteries” of God. “Mystery” is an apt word. We’re talking about unfathomables.

For an analogy look at the thread here on CAF about the “filioque” in the Nicene Creed. We’ve got two different sentences which in English, Greek, and Latin do not say the same thing, yet somehow both versions are true. Simultaneously. Hmpf. If we can have two Nicene Creeds that aren’t really two but are one, then we can have the Koran’s What-Would-Moses-Say statement of the death of Jesus at the same time as we have the, well, the Nicene Creed statement of the death of Jesus.

Problem solved as best as anyone can solve the problem of Jesus.

{ continues in next post }**

 

[scottm]

4) The Koran says that Jesus is only a prophet of Allah/God. This one is pretty easy. The Koran also says that Jesus preached “the gospel” to the Jews, and that Jesus told everyone to worship and follow Allah/God. And in the NT Gospels themselves, more times than a person wants to count Jesus says that he’s only doing what “his Father in heaven” tells him to do, that he’s only speaking the words that “his Father in heaven” gives him, that he wants everyone to pray to “his Father in heaven” and obey “his Father in heaven,” etc etc.

We all know those verses in the Gospels, but none of us get tripped up by them. Read the Koran the same way. Problem solved.

5) The Koran says that Jews and Christians corrupted the teachings of Allah. It suggests even that Jews altered the words of God. From this Moslems get the idea that the Bible, both OT and NT, cannot be trusted. That’s their mistake. The textual accuracy of both the OT and NT is actually objectively impeccable. There is no doubt whatsoever that we have the true OT and NT – and this is an objective statement, not a subjective opinion. Back to the Koran, though: we know from reading the OT that false prophets outnumbered true prophets. Hello. The Koran is merely saying the same thing. And we know from the fact of the seven ecumenical councils, and from the biographies of our Church Fathers, that heresy was rampant. Hello. The Koran is merely saying the same thing.

Problem solved.

6) The Koran says that Mohammad was the “seal of the prophets.” This actually isn’t a problem once everything else goes away. “Seal” means he’s the last. When the letter is done, you seal it up. You stamp it with a seal. Mohammad can be the last prophet the moment all the controversies discussed above go away.

 

[scottm]

To pick on Moslems for a moment:

In my experience they COMPLETELY IGNORE the Koran’s repeated call to read and follow the Bible, both OT and NT alike. That’s shameful. Any Moslem who ignores the Bible is disobeying Allah – flat out. There, I said it publicly. And nobody can fully understand the Koran without knowing the Bible stories. It’s not possible. The Koran references the Bible too many times. You have to know the Bible stories in order to know what the Koran is talking about. That’s objectively true and obvious!

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

To scottm:

You’ve left out some key differences:

• Christ did not die on the cross
• Christ was not resurrected (which, by Paul’s standards, would mean “there is no resurrection of the dead,” 1 Cor 15:13)
• Jesus is not divine
• God’s plan was not complete with Christ’s death, resurrection and ascension. Christ’s words on the cross, “It is finished,” were false when we follow the Quran
• Repentance in the Quran is entirely works based and has nothing to do with coming to Christ - Christ is not involved at all

You keep saying, “Let’s not harp on the differences.” These are major differences. These are differences the apostles would have written entire epistles over. These are differences that destroy the Gospel entirely. Any book that does so should not be entertained nor should it be held as even a “similar” book to the Bible. Like it or not, the messages of the Quran and the Bible are different, in particular with the ministry of Christ and the foundation of His church. The Quran is, by Christian standards, a heretical book. No ifs, ands or buts.

EDIT: Also, to keep saying, “Just read the Quran under the different context” is to tell people to commit eisegesis and, in essence, to lie.

 

[scottm]

No. Not the RCC. Jesus built the CC on Peter. He said upon this Rock I will build my Church and the gates of hades will not prevail. St Peter was the leader of the RCC. He has passed the Church down from the time of Jesus. On the first day of the Church at Pentecost the Holy Spirit came upon the Church that was led by Peter. The RCC is still led by the Pope today that was passed down from Peter. It can be traced.

It’s not fair to go off on a tangent like that with a partisan position. That is not how the verse was ever interpreted in Eastern Christianity where all 12 Apostles started churches. All twelve of them. Including Peter. All twelve. Western Christianity does not have churches founded by all twelve Apostles.

This really is not the place for partisan disputes. It would be better to stick to that which unites everyone, to wit, it is undisputed that Jesus the prophet of Allah as mentioned in the Koran and the Bible alike, started a single Church that still exists today, and has always existed: Orthodoxy and Catholicism. The fact of the existence of 22 Eastern Catholic Churches proves that Orthodoxy and Catholicism are compatible right now today, the same as they were for the first 1000 years of Christian history. Anything more than that is an in-house dispute.

 

[scottm]

To scottm:
You’ve left out some key differences:

• Christ did not die on the cross
• Christ was not resurrected (which, by Paul’s standards, would mean “there is no resurrection of the dead,” 1 Cor 15:13)
• Jesus is not divine
• God’s plan was not complete with Christ’s death, resurrection and ascension. Christ’s words on the cross, “It is finished,” were false when we follow the Quran
• Repentance in the Quran is entirely works based and has nothing to do with coming to Christ - Christ is not involved at all

1 – addressed specifically
2 – goes with the first; I think I also mentioned that the Koran says Jesus is right now in heaven with Allah/God, very much alive
3 – addressed specifically
4 – Huh? That so does not make any sense.
5 – Repentance in the Koran is entirely the same as Old Testament repentance, and therefore, by virtue of the OT being part of Christianity, it is compatible with Christianity.

You keep saying, “Let’s not harp on the differences.” These are major differences. These are differences the apostles would have written entire epistles over. These are differences that destroy the Gospel entirely. Any book that does so should not be entertained nor should it be held as even a “similar” book to the Bible. Like it or not, the messages of the Quran and the Bible are different, in particular with the ministry of Christ and the foundation of His church. The Quran is, by Christian standards, a heretical book. No ifs, ands or buts.

Addressed already. You sound like me back in my Baptist days. I spoke the same way against Roman Catholics and Lutherans. “Such and such verse is incompatible with Catholic teaching. The Pope is wrong. This verse right here says so.” And likewise Lutherans were wrong. And I could dance circles around Presbyterians. (I was an Armenian/Wesleyan type of Baptist). TULIP Presbyterians were so wrong. I had the proof texts. Ain’t nobody can proof-text better than a Baptist. Nobody.

Certainly you are aware that the CCC says that Moslems worship the Christian God. And certainly you are aware of how easy it is to misinterpret the Bible. Google for “Bible contradictions” or “evil Bible quotes” or something like that. There are a gazillion lists that “prove” that the Bible says something that you and I know it does not say. Here are a few off the top of the Google list:

humanistsofutah.org/2002/WhyCantIOwnACanadian_10-02.html

infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html

evilbible.com/Biblical%20Contradictions.htm

cybercollege.com/antiwoman.htm

My point: we have to avoid doing what those guys do, and what I used to do as a Baptist when I was so sure the Pope (who says Moslems worship our God) was a type of Anti-Christ and everybody else not in my “tribe” or on my “team” was wrong.

EDIT: Also, to keep saying, “Just read the Quran under the different context” is to tell people to commit eisegesis and, in essence, to lie.

Addressed.