Comparing the Koran with the Bible

[Byzantine_Wolf]

“I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. How be it when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me” (Luke16:12-14).

John 14: 15-16. It says: “14- If you love Me, keep My commandments. And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another comforter” (Helper in other versions), that he may abide with you forever".

Both of these quotations are not answering my question regarding the corruption of scripture. In fact, you’ve just completely contradicted your point. You quoted the corrupted scripture. How are you supposed to rely on the scripture if it’s corrupted? Are you expecting Christians to take this double standard seriously? What it boils down to is circular reasoning.

God didn’t promise them that he will preseves these books , he left this mission for the people to preseve it to test them .
this kind of test shouldn’t be in the last massage , because their musn’t be any options for it’s corruptence because it will be the last scripture ever

Where is that written in scripture?

do you think that theire are complete absence about what came before?

are you sure ?

I’ve explained both these points ad nauseum, not only in my previous post but in the posts before it and elsewhere.

 

[jakasaki]

“I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. How be it when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me” (Luke16:12-14).

John 14: 15-16. It says: “14- If you love Me, keep My commandments. And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another comforter” (Helper in other versions), that he may abide with you forever".

…

John 14

Elwill - why… oh why do muslims quote only 14-16 and **STOP **there…?

Read what Jesus said:

17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

Elwill - it clearly states the world cannot accept him because it cannot see him…

Was mohamad “invisible” - NO

Therefore it is NOT speaking about mohamad.

Also - check your copy & paste on Luke 16: 12-14 - the web site you got it from is wrong

**The Bible states:

12And if you have not been trustworthy with someone else’s property, who will give you property of your own?

13“No servant can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.”

14The Pharisees, who loved money, heard all this and were sneering at Jesus.**

The above is Luke 16 12-14 -

John 16 12…

12“I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear.

13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

14He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you.

15All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.

16“In a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me.”

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

…as the emperor in Amadeus said, “Well, there it is.”

 

[scottm]

the fact for me may be not a fact for you
i believe that islam is the only relegion in the world which it’s scripture (quran) kept pure in it’s original language and in it’s original form without alterations.

and i think that the question was forwarded to me as a muslim , to respond from my islamic point of view

I respect your Islamic point of view, but you have to respect that you are operating from false information. It’s fine to say that the Koran has been kept in it’s original language and original form alterations. I actually agree with you on that. Your mistake is in asserting that the Bible we have today is not the Bible that Allah/God gave to Moses and the other 40 writers. That claim is factually false.

From post #111: “Thus, when the people went astray, they changed what was written in the books which their prophets brought in order to make allowable the things which were forbidden to them. In that way, all of the earlier books of revelation became either changed or lost.”

Your statement as applied to the Bible that we have today is factually not true. It is indeed very true that priests, kings, and false prophets in long-ago days changed the message of Allah/God. The Bible itself says that. The Bible itself talks about those events. You will see that the moment you read the Old Testament. It is not true, however, that the Bible itself has changed. The Bible we have today is not different from the original Bible in any way that actually makes any bit of difference about anything. That is where you make your mistake.

I’ll say again: The Koran does not claim that the Bible as it existed in the days of Mohammad or as it exists today is false. The Koran only claims that priests, kings, and false prophets in the past altered the message of Allah. There is a HUGE difference between those two claims.

Again from post #111: “All of the false prophets who came after Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) brought books which they claimed to be revealed from Allah, but none of them have the miraculous ability to be memorized by thousands, nor have they improved on the message of the Quran.”

That’s not true. The Book of Mormon can be memorized by thousands just as surely as the Koran can be. And think of plays. Thousands of actors over decades and decades memorize the same words. Really, have you considered how many people know all the words to “The Rocky Horror Picture Show”? Or “Cats”?

Again from post #111: “The loss of the Gospel of Jesus means that Christians can never return to the true teachings of Prophet Jesus except by accepting Islam. Similarly, the original Torah was lost when Solomon’s Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed by the Babylonians. Thus, the Jews cannot return to the pure teachings of Prophet Moses except by following Islam.”
Not true. You’re closing your eyes to objective history. The Gospel of Jesus was not lost. To say it was lost is as ridiculous as saying that the sun doesn’t shine in the sky. I don’t even know where to begin, because your claim is so fundamentally wrong.

Likewise the Torah was not lost. Sure, the Ark of the Covenant was lost, and specific rolls of papyrus scrolls were lost, but the Torah itself – no. It was never ever lost. You might as well say that the sun doesn’t shine in the sky. That’s how blind you are being. Really! And I say that as someone who likes the Koran!

 

[Justin1982]

Elwill you claim the incorrupt nature of the Quran, what is your opinion on the Sana’a manuscripts?

For those who are unaware this is the oldest known remnants of a Quran dated 7th/8th century found in an upstairs room in the Sana’a Mosque in Yemen in 1972. The texts are said to be very different from those in today’s Quran.

 

[rinnie]

“I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. How be it when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me” (Luke16:12-14).

John 14: 15-16. It says: “14- If you love Me, keep My commandments. And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another comforter” (Helper in other versions), that he may abide with you forever".

it’s a question like . why he allows for some people to disbelieve
God didn’t promise them that he will preseves these books , he left this mission for the people to preseve it to test them .
this kind of test shouldn’t be in the last massage , because their musn’t be any options for it’s corruptence because it will be the last scripture ever , that’s why theire are many verses in quran where allah says that he will preserve this revelation by himself
is such verses exist in your bible ?

do you think that theire are complete absence about what came before?

are you sure ?

Good Point. Excellent Point. Now read what you just quoted Luke 6: 12-14. The Spirit of truth. That is what came upon the CC at Pentecost. That is the Holy Spirit edwill who I showed you is leading the CC. IT already happend edwill. Long before my time. Jesus promised us the Advocate the Holy Spirit. Who does the Holy Spirit glorify? Jesus Christ the Savior of the World. You must study the scripture and the teachings of the Church. Then you can understand what the scripture means.

 

[jakasaki]

Good Point. Excellent Point.

**Now read what you just quoted Luke 6: 12-14. **

The Spirit of truth. That is what came upon the CC at Pentecost. That is the Holy Spirit edwill who I showed you is leading the CC. IT already happend edwill. Long before my time. Jesus promised us the Advocate the Holy Spirit. Who does the Holy Spirit glorify? Jesus Christ the Savior of the World. You must study the scripture and the teachings of the Church. Then you can understand what the scripture means.

Whatever site he got that from it’s wrong:

**Here is Luke 16: 12-14

12And if you have not been trustworthy with someone else’s property, who will give you property of your own?

13“No servant can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.”

14The Pharisees, who loved money, heard all this and were sneering at Jesus.**

The Bible Passage was meant to say: John 16: 12…HOWEVER - the site that Elwill referenced was wrong - it wasn’t Luke - it was John…

 

[elwill]

Both of these quotations are not answering my question regarding the corruption of scripture. In fact, you’ve just completely contradicted your point. You quoted the corrupted scripture. How are you supposed to rely on the scripture if it’s corrupted? Are you expecting Christians to take this double standard seriously? What it boils down to is circular reasoning.

go back to post # 160 in page 11
you will find me quoting from you this question
I think that’s a misconception of what I was asking. My question was what this plan was, yes, but also where in scripture it is written that this was God’s plan.
i’m not excellent in english language but i’m good enough to understand that your question wasn’t corruption of the scripture , rather it’s about God’s plane

note : i said that it was his plane to only preserve the last massage , thats why i provided those passages

and please don’t mock on me for quoting for you what you just requested , you requested from me qutation from your scripture , now you condemns me for provided it to you

Where is that written in scripture?

i’m fear you will condemn me again for quoting scripture i believe it’s corrupted
anyway
“`How can you say, “We [the Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD,” when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?’ (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)”

 

[elwill]

John 14

Elwill - why… oh why do muslims quote only 14-16 and **STOP **there…?

Read what Jesus said:

17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

Elwill - it clearly states the world cannot accept him because it cannot see him…
Was mohamad “invisible” - NO
Therefore it is NOT speaking about mohamad.

Jesus said: “This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.” (Matthew: 13/13). 1

When Jesus said, “the world cannot accept him, because they cannot see him or know him, but you will know him because he is staying with you, and he will be among you”.

may be he did not mean the sight seeing or the actual knowledge, but the heart knowledge. He mentioned the same about himself when he said, “They said to him therefore, where is your Father? Jesus answered, you know neither me, nor my Father: if you know me, you would know my Father also.” (John: 8/19). There are many of similar verses in the Gospels.
In his interpretation to the Book of John, Mathew Henry said, that “the word (to see) in the Greek text does not mean the eye sight, but the insight.”

Also - check your copy & paste on Luke 16: 12-14 - the web site you got it from is wrong

**The Bible states:

12And if you have not been trustworthy with someone else’s property, who will give you property of your own?

13“No servant can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.”

14The Pharisees, who loved money, heard all this and were sneering at Jesus.**

The above is Luke 16 12-14 -

John 16 12…

12“I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear.

13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

14He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you.

15All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.

16“In a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me.”

thank you for correcting the reference

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

go back to post # 160 in page 11
you will find me quoting from you this question
I think that’s a misconception of what I was asking. My question was what this plan was, yes, but also where in scripture it is written that this was God’s plan.
i’m not excellent in english language but i’m good enough to understand that your question wasn’t corruption of the scripture , rather it’s about God’s plane

Yes, and you had replied partly that God allowed scripture to be corrupted. Then, to respond to my question…you quoted the corrupted scripture as evidence. I recognize that this is a common apologetic tactic for Muslim apologists to make…but the mind-boggingly stupid nature of it simply makes me wonder if any one has listened to Christian responses to it, or realizes just how inconsistent it is. It makes about as much sense as a prosecution lawyer putting his star witness on the stand, then during closing arguments turning to the jury and saying, “Don’t trust that witness! He lies all the time! He’s not trustworthy!” Anyone with a rational mind would recognize this is apologetic suicide…yet this is precisely how Muslims argue from scripture.

And as I said, neither of those scriptures said that God would allow scripture to be corrupted to make way for the Quran. Where, again, is that in scripture? Where does Christ or the apostles ever make that claim? I will save you some time - it is nowhere to be found. Because the issue of calling ALL scripture corrupted and claiming a new revelation has to be put in place was unheard of until Mohammad appeared with his self-inspired, self-proving revelation.

 

[wwolverine]

3) The Koran says that Jesus did not die on the cross. And Christians say that Jesus is God. Alright, take this one slowly.

What would Moses say if you suggested to him that Yahweh died? Or even that Yahweh could die?

Moses would say you’re wrong.

What would Abraham say in response to the same question?
Abraham would say you’re wrong.

What would King David say?
He’d say you’re wrong.

Elijah? Elisha? Isaiah? John the Baptist? How about Noah?
They’d all say you’re wrong.

Let’s ask a Christian: Did God die?

No. We’re splitting narrow concepts now, and in a sense playing with words, but in reality the creator of life itself did not die on the cross. The creator of life itself cannot die, did not die, and will not ever die. In that sense, to the degree that Jesus was and is God, Jesus did not die. To the extent that he was a human, though – that’s different.

The manner in which Jesus could be human and God at the same time puzzled the Church Fathers greatly. This was a huge dilemma in the early centuries of Christianity. It had still not been fully hammered out in ecumenical councils when Mohammad was writing the Koran, and even after the ecumenical councils handed down their decisions heresies lived on. (Even still today Jehovahs Witnesses and Mormons are teaching non-Christian ideas about Jesus’ divinity.)

Repeating this thought, if we say that Jesus is God, then we have to also say that Jesus did not die on the cross, in some way. People thought he was altogether fully in every respect dead, sure. His mother Mary and his friends buried him, come on. We all celebrate the death of Jesus at Easter/Pascha. But it was only his human part. There was a part of him, his divine part, that never died – we have to affirm that as Christians, because we have to affirm that Life Itself cannot die.

Splitting hairs, maybe, but I am unaware of a single theologian in the history of Christianity who genuinely understood the nature and mind of God. It is with good reason that the Orthodox church and Eastern Catholicism speaks of the “mysteries” of God. “Mystery” is an apt word. We’re talking about unfathomables.

For an analogy look at the thread here on CAF about the “filioque” in the Nicene Creed. We’ve got two different sentences which in English, Greek, and Latin do not say the same thing, yet somehow both versions are true. Simultaneously. Hmpf. If we can have two Nicene Creeds that aren’t really two but are one, then we can have the Koran’s What-Would-Moses-Say statement of the death of Jesus at the same time as we have the, well, the Nicene Creed statement of the death of Jesus.

Problem solved as best as anyone can solve the problem of Jesus.

{ continues in next post }

Dear scottm, Thanks for your analysis and for solving all the problems faced by Muslims and Christians. You made it seem so simple, and here Christians and Muslims have been fighting uncecessarly for ages when the problems were so simple. isnt it?

So now most Christians who work in arab world and have no Holy Bible can start reading holy Quran and still practice their faiths? mmmmmm, sounds like its possible. but I do have one question which seems to go in my mind and hence I believe you will be the best to ask this.

According to the Christians belief, Jesus was crucified. He died and on the third day did rise to Heavenly glory. This was foretold in the books of Isiah too and He was mentioned as Suffering Messiah. Jesus Himself said that such an even will take place. But now we have the text below which says just the opposite aand someone else was replaced and people were fooled to think that it was Jesus, when Jesus never died on the cross, that is the islamic thought. So please do guide me on this too.

Sura an Nisa
004.157
YUSUFALI: That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah”;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
PICKTHAL: And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah’s messenger - they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain.
SHAKIR: And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the messenger of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure

 

[rinnie]

Whatever site he got that from it’s wrong:

**Here is Luke 16: 12-14

12And if you have not been trustworthy with someone else’s property, who will give you property of your own?

13“No servant can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.”

14The Pharisees, who loved money, heard all this and were sneering at Jesus.**

The Bible Passage was meant to say: John 16: 12…HOWEVER - the site that Elwill referenced was wrong - it wasn’t Luke - it was John…

Yes you are right. But I am guilty of doing that from time to time also, so I let it go. I thought the point was more important and he did quote the scripture accurate. Just not the right person

It is a shame that he did not read a little further down in that scripture. That is where much truth could be revealed to him.

The reason I feel he should read scripture is because the Qur’an speaks very highly of the Scriptures that were transmitted by the messengers of God. It is actually a DUTY for the Muslims to believe in those scriptures.

IMO if there is ANY scripture they should concentrate on, it is these ones. SO So ironic how close it is to the one quoted. Actually the VERY next Chapter. One a Chapter after, one a Chapter before, Let me show you.

John 17.1-5. When Jesus had said this he raised his eyes to heaven and said, Father the hour has come. Give GLORY to your son, so that your son may Glorify you., just as you gave him authority over all people so that he may give eternal life to all you gave him. Now this is eternal life, that they should know you, the Only True God, and the one whom you sent, JESUS CHRIST. I glorified you on earth by accomplishing the work that you gave me to do. Now GLORIFY ME FATHER WITH YOU,WITH THE GLORY I HAD BEFORE THE WORLD BEGAN.

If there is ONE SCRIPTURE in the bible that proves Jesus and the Father are ONE, that it is. Because everyone knows that you can ONLY GLORIFY ONE GOD.

And to PROVE the Holy Spirit. John 15:26 When the ADVOCATE comes whom I WILL SEND you from the Father, the SPIRIT OF TRUTH PROCEEDS FROM THE FATHER. he will testify to me. And you also testify because you have been with me from the beginning.

If they could just concentrate and pray on that scripture alone. They could indeed understand the Trinity. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. 3 Separate Persons ONE IN BEING with the Father. Then they could see that God has never left us on this earth. He is still leading us by the Power of the Advocate the Holy Spirit.

I always showed my kids when they were small that God worked thru God the Father in the O.T. God the Son in the N.T. and God the Holy Spirit in the world today. God have never left us, God has never been in this world. This world has never been a world without God. He created this world, and he created the next. It is all about God. And how he chooses to reveal himself!!

 

[Cinette]

I too; took an interest in reading the Quran, what turned me away from it, was its historical teaching of “Lie-ing and deception”, to be a “good virtue”, that was practiced from its histoical leaders and encouraged.

I have a very hard time believing in the One God that encourages Lie-ing, a good virtue to practice and hate one’s enemy. Which conflicts with one of the commandments from our One God, and conflicts with their prophet Jesus and our Savior and Lord Jesus who taught us to “love your enemy”.

I must admit as another poster posted the muslims reverence of God is to be commended. As far as interpreting the Quran? you will find from their diversed cultural communities and ethinicity that there is not one interpretation of the Quran. If your going to study a Quran, you might take note from which ethnic group is interpreting the Quran?

Peace be with you

I saved you some research and listed the chapters for you from the Quran and their Haddith traditions.

(Koran) Qu’ran – allows its followers to Lie and deceive as a virtue of Islam

Taqiyya = lying against unbelievers is a virtue and a religious duty according to the Qu’ran, Haddith (tradition), Islamic Law

Qu’ran

Sura 16:106 Establishes that there are circumstances that can “compel” a Muslim to tell a lie

Sura 3:28 This verse tells Muslims not to take those outside the faith as friends unless it is to “guard themselves”

Sura 40:28 A man is introduced as a believer, but one who must “hide his faith” among those who are not believers

Sura 2:225 “Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths but for the intention in your hearts”

Sura 66:2 “Allah has already ordained you ( O men), the dissolution of your oaths” Taken collectively these verses are interpreted to mean that there are circumstances when a Muslim may be “compelled” to deceive others for a greater purpose.

Haddith tradition

Bukhari 52:269 The prophet said, “War is deceit” after he murdered Ushayr Ibn Z arim and his 30 unarmed men, by Muhommads men, after he guaranteed them safe passage.

Bukhari 49:857 “He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a Liar, “Lying is Permitted when the end Justifies the Means.

Bukhari 84:64-65 (Speaking from a position of Power) Ali- confirms that “ lying is permissible in order to deceive an enemy”.

Bukhari 52:271 Ka’bbin Al- Ashraf at Muhommads insistence, his men dishonestly gained Ka’bs trust in order to bring him out of hiding, by stating there no longer are Muslims, and then brutally assisinated him.

Islamic law
Reliance of the traveler ( pg. 746) It is obligatory to Lie if the goal is obligatory:

*What about Muhammed who took a young girl of 6 and married her when she was 9 (Aisha).

There was also a Jewish woman whom he fancied. He killed her husband and her father and her brothers (plus others - approx 600 Jews) and then he raped her that night and married her the next day!

Nice guy!

 

[viveret]

I still think the projects of comparing the Koran & Bible, and the three monotheisms of the world as well, are futile.
There are more differences than similarities in these faiths because each has gone its own separate way.
There is no undoing history.

 

[rinnie]

As in Judaism, in Islam the idea of God-Man is impossible. It is blasphemous. Islam understands itself to return back, to the basics, to the pristine monothesism of Abraham, shorn of all the impurities and accretions of Judaism and Christianity.

It teaches that the greatest of prophets came from the seventh-century Arabia, Muhammad!!

Now here is the part that will blow your mind, Figure this one out. Muhammad supposedly ACCEPTED the revelation of God to the Israelites and in the GOSPEL OF JESUS!! BUT then it turns around and contradicts the bible in very very important ways.

They have a HUGE problem with the Scripture of John 1:1 God already SENT his SON, HIS FINAL WORD. There is no further revelation to come. Like the previous post stated.

There is NO GREATER PROPHET then the WORD MADE FLESH. On this very important point Catholic’s and Protestants agree.

Now again, Here is a big big problem. How can they deny Jesus Christ and accept the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Especially these words.

Again of John. The Qur’an REJECTS the IDEA of God becomming man. But check this out.

John, In the Beginning was the WORD and the WORD WAS GOD, and the WORD BECA
ME FLESH and dwelt AMONG US.

Now again here is something very important to THINK about. At present Muslim tradition holds a position that was quickly adopted n Islam, Simply Muhammad as the Last Prophet as I stated, he was to be the Last to be sent by God to all Mankind. Its simple dogma has never changed. But now again this is where it does NOT make sense to me.

It appears in identical form in the faith of Adam, Noah, and Abraham, it is the Core of the Message that Moses MESUS< and Muhammad announced.

Now Muslim traditon regards Judaism AND CHRISTIANITY as TRUE RELIGIONS. They agree that there is ONLY ONE TRUE RELIGION. But then contradict that in not accepting the words of the N,T.

 

[rinnie]

I still think the projects of comparing the Koran & Bible, and the three monotheisms of the world as well, are futile.
There are more differences than similarities in these faiths because each has gone its own separate way.
There is no undoing history.

In all due respect I disagree. I believe that it is IN comparing the two thatthe Word of God will be seen.

 

[viveret]

Now Muslim traditon regards Judaism AND CHRISTIANITY as TRUE RELIGIONS. They agree that there is ONLY ONE TRUE RELIGION. But then contradict that in not accepting the words of the N,T.

Islam may assert the truth of Judaism & Christianity.
But you can also assert the truth that salt dissolves in water.
Compounds are composed of molecules and elements are composed of atoms.
That’s the kind of truth they ascribe to Judaism and Christianity-- it is worldly truth.

For Muslims these religions are true, but they are not holy or sacred.
They are, in fact, profane to Muslims.
If a Muslim shuns Western philosophy, Christian teaching or the history of Judaism, nothing is lost, because God, and what is holy is what validates culture, expression, and intellectual endeavor.
So whether or not Judaism and Christianity are true is irrelevant.
It is on the basis of this that Muslims can disregard the content of Western civilization and Judaism, and Christianity.
I’m not defending or attacking Muslim culture, but it’s very important that

1. you understand how profound the differences are between Islam and the West and
2. why those differences will persist in the foreseeable future.

 

[sedonaman]

… How can they deny Jesus Christ and accept the Gospel of Jesus Christ.?] …

That’s easy. Prior scriptures were “corrupted” by men, especially by that dastardly Paul of Tarsus. The Angel Gabriel gave Mohammed the “original” word of Allah. This is the same claim that Joseph Smith made, even down to his receiving the final revelation.

 

[rinnie]

Islam may assert the truth of Judaism & Christianity.
But you can also assert the truth that salt dissolves in water.
Compounds are composed of molecules and elements are composed of atoms.
That’s the kind of truth they ascribe to Judaism and Christianity-- it is worldly truth.

For Muslims these religions are true, but they are not holy or sacred.
They are, in fact, profane to Muslims.
If a Muslim shuns Western philosophy, Christian teaching or the history of Judaism, nothing is lost, because God, and what is holy is what validates culture, expression, and intellectual endeavor.
So whether or not Judaism and Christianity are true is irrelevant.
It is on the basis of this that Muslims can disregard the content of Western civilization and Judaism, and Christianity.
I’m not defending or attacking Muslim culture, but it’s very important that

1. you understand how profound the differences are between Islam and the West and
2. why those differences will persist in the foreseeable future.

Oh Trust me, I totally agree with what you are saying. I also try to not attack but also cannot defend Muslim culture.

Here is what my point is, quite simple. How can you agree that something is TRUE, but then turn around and disregard it? I do not see how they can do that.

For us, we totally disregard Muhammad’s mission. We do not recognize him, nor never will. Why? Quite Simple. Jesus did promise to send one other Advocate. The Holy Spirit. That’s not Muhammad, nor have they every claimed that it was.

The O.T predicted Jesus. The N.T predicted the Holy Spirit. They cannot deny that. The N.T. never predicted Muhammad. They cannot deny that either. See what I mean?

The CC teaches that the Advocate the Holy Spirit came to lead the Church at Pentecost. That is proven in the scripture. So what I am saying we have proof from the scripture, scripture that they DO agree is Truth. See what I am saying.

If they denied the O.T and the N.T. and did not accept it as truth, I could see where they are comming from. But beings that they do accept it as truth, I CANNOT see where they are comming from. Thats the point I am trying to drive home.

 

[rinnie]

That’s easy. Prior scriptures were “corrupted” by men, especially by that dastardly Paul of Tarsus. The Angel Gabriel gave Mohammed the “original” word of Allah. This is the same claim that Joseph Smith made, even down to his receiving the final revelation.

Bingo!! That is my point. Just like we can show by the word of God that JS was wrong, we can show that Muhammad is.

It is by them getting the chance to really read the bible that the truth will be revealed to them from the WORD, Then when they can see that alot of what was taught by Muhammad does come from the WORD MADE FLESH, it will happen.

You have to look to the future, and you will see how it is going to come down. The largest Church and Religion to date is the Catholic Religion. But Muslim is really getting very close to our numbers. They are closing in on us fast! They are immigrating over in record numbers. That have pretty much taken over

Now here is what I see, It is going to come down to the Christians and the Muslims. Quite simple. Now ironically what divided the Catholic’s and the Protestants? Simple the Bible. Not the truth of the bible, but the understanding of scripture.

Now you will never have a Christian deny Jesus as the Christ. You have a better chance of bringing a Protestant back to the RCC then you could to the Muslim faith.

So by the record numbers now, its going to, I believe come down to the Catholic Church and the Muslims. I believe that all of the Protestant Church’s will come back to the CC. I always have, always will. I truly do not believe that any true Christian would every deny Jesus. So I feel it will be Muslim that will RE-UNITE US FIRST. Then its going to come down to US and THEM.

And then you go back to the TRUTH. The bible states too much Truth that they do believe that they cannot deny.

Think about it. They believe in the Blessed Mother!! I still believe that it will be her the MOTHER CHURCH the CC that will unite ALL to her Son.

But hey thats just Me.