Comparing the Koran with the Bible

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I have just been on a Muslim forum and I would say that 50% of the members are hostile against Christians. They seem to be against the concept of loving enemies and feel that it is insulting God that He loves even the worst sinner. The more you mention love, the more they are offended.

I do believe that the Koran and Bible teach completely different lifestyles and I can’t get over at how the Muslims on that website were so against agape.

This has left me with a sunken feeling over the negative impact that the Koran has had on many people. I would rather be an Atheist than have a belief that hating can be holy. If God is able to hate us, then the gap between Him and satan is too narrow for my liking.
 
Gabriel_of_12 said:
I am sorry Miserys Fence, I checked your sight; I try never to fill my mind with such negative propagandas.

I hope your intention was not to prove the New Testament teaches Christians to “stealth, decieve, lie and conquer ones enemies”? When it teaches we are to proclaim the Truth from the housetops.

In any case, you gave this negative group a plug here and it does not give this Catholics view point nor reveal the mission of the Church of Jesus Christ.

Peace be with you
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I wasn’t attempting to “plug” for the site. The point is, sadly, Christians also use lies and deceit for their own purposes. To declare this phenomenon as strictly Islamic is…well, deceitful.

Miz
 
Byzantine_Wolf said:
It’s a common tactic when Islam comes under attack: change the focus to Christianity. You’ll say, “Oh, look what the Quran, the actual religious text of Islam, says,” and someone will say, “Oh! Look what these Christians hundreds upon hundreds of years after the time of Christ did!” In the field of logical fallacies, that’s most often known as a non sequitor. Essentially: “I don’t really have a response for A, so I’m going to try to subtly change the subject to B.”
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There is no “tactic” nor is there a “change in subject.” I was responding to the implication that only Islam is deceitful. Obviously, this is not true–there are sects of Christianity that use the same tactics. ** It’s not right in either case.**

Of course, it’s a common tactic for Christians to cry foul when someone calls them out on their hypocrisy. 😉

Miz
 
Misery,
I think the point he was trying to make is that the koran tells its followers it is ok to lie, the Bible explicitly tells you not to lie. The person on the link is telling his students to lie “for the greater good” is not following the biblical teachings. That is a HUGE difference.
 
Miserys_Fence said:
I wasn’t attempting to “plug” for the site. The point is, sadly, Christians also use lies and deceit for their own purposes. To declare this phenomenon as strictly Islamic is…well, deceitful.

Miz
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SOME Christians, not ALL Christians. It is UnBiblical to lie to spread the Gospel!:rolleyes:
 
Miserys_Fence said:
There is no “tactic” nor is there a “change in subject.” I was responding to the implication that only Islam is deceitful. Obviously, this is not true–there are sects of Christianity that use the same tactics. ** It’s not right in either case.**
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There is a major difference when Christians cite the holy texts and recorded actions of the founder of a religion, and Muslims quote what followers of a religion hundreds of years later did. This is also something I have discussed with Muslims before. One conversation I had with a Muslim (who is now no longer Muslim) involved me showing how Mohammad and his companions persecuted Jews and Christians, and he replied simply with, “Well we don’t do that any more.” I tried to point out to him that this wasn’t just a random Muslim ruler some hundreds of years after the time of Mohammad…this WAS Mohammad, and it was his companions, whom he had stated could be trusted.

And again, responding to the accusation that there is signs of deceit or violence in the Quran with, “Well some Christians are deceitful!” (actually if they’re deceitful, they’re not real Christians) is a non sequitor. Yes, that is changing the subject. Some (though not all) Muslim members on this forum are more prone to it than others. Planten was especially the worse, but thankfully he’s been banned. 👍
 
autdrew said:
Misery,
I think the point he was trying to make is that the koran tells its followers it is ok to lie, the Bible explicitly tells you not to lie. The person on the link is telling his students to lie “for the greater good” is not following the biblical teachings. That is a HUGE difference.
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Ditto autdrew, my thoughts exactly. I was not giving an opinion of the Quran, it speaks for itself. For a while there I thought I was banned for posting the Lie-ing virtues of the Quran on the forum because I could not get back in the forums, come to find out the forum was having technical problems.

I would of had to question if “Liberalism” is hostage to the Islam religion, had I gotten banned here? If truth cannot be spoken of what the Quran teaches and reveals? And one turns a blind eye or is offended from these revealed truth’s, how are we ever going to understand each others perspectives on faith? I got my answer from the Quran, now I just need to move on in understanding and love those individuals holding to the Islamic faith who makes me his enemy for believing and proclaiming Christ crucified?

There is a powerful evil at work here that needs to be exposed not hidden, so I thank Miseryfence for revealing this antichrist on both sides of the fence.

Peace be with you
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Byzantine_Wolf said:
… This is also something I have discussed with Muslims before. One conversation I had with a Muslim (who is now no longer Muslim) involved me showing how Mohammad and his companions persecuted Jews and Christians, and he replied simply with, “Well we don’t do that any more.” I tried to point out to him that this wasn’t just a random Muslim ruler some hundreds of years after the time of Mohammad…this WAS Mohammad, and it was his companions, whom he had stated could be trusted…
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I once asked my Muslim friend about Jihad and what it really means. He said its supposed to be interpreted as a spiritual warfare against evil- not a warfare against non-Muslims. He said that people who believe that it’s right to attack non-Muslims and to lie are interpreting the Qu 'ran incorrectly.

I see this as evidence that God shines through all people, so that if someone is taught by their religion that murder/lying can be justified, they are not capable of seeing murder/lying as holy, so believe that they have been presented with an incorrect interpretation.
 
Miserys_Fence said:
I wasn’t attempting to “plug” for the site. The point is, sadly, Christians also use lies and deceit for their own purposes. To declare this phenomenon as strictly Islamic is…well, deceitful.

Miz
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Hi Misery, just for my clarification, Is it mentioned in the Holy Bible that its ok to Lie? If so can you give me the verses? I have the NIV with me and its all in negative about lies.

If Christians lie, than that has nothing to do with Christianity or Holy Bible, but their own personal freedom or individual choice, to do so.

Thanks.
 
Thyme said:
I once asked my Muslim friend about Jihad and what it really means. He said its supposed to be interpreted as a spiritual warfare against evil- not a warfare against non-Muslims. He said that people who believe that it’s right to attack non-Muslims and to lie are interpreting the Qu 'ran incorrectly.

I see this as evidence that God shines through all people, so that if someone is taught by their religion that murder/lying can be justified, they are not capable of seeing murder/lying as holy, so believe that they have been presented with an incorrect interpretation.
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The problem is: 1) is that interpretation accurate - that is, refer back to the Muslim I cited who simply refused to realize that S. 9:29 was a military verse and kept claiming it was a metaphorical “fight”; 2) does their interpretation match how early Muslims, including the companions of Mohammad and Mohammad himself. To cite an example of #2: I was once discussing the passage in the Quran which says do not take Jews and Christians for friends, and a Muslim claimed that it meant “political allies” (as if discriminating based on religion is OK in that situation). I quoted a hadith where an early Muslim (IIRC, a companion) found out someone had hired a Christian and promptly demanded that he kick the Christian out of the city, then warned everyone to be on the lookout for Christians in disguise…and cited that verse of the Quran as a reminder. The Muslim I was talking to couldn’t respond, because really…how could he?

It’s always amazing to me when western or “moderate” Muslims think they know better than their own prophet or the first group of followers did.
 
I once asked my Muslim friend about Jihad and what it really means. He said its supposed to be interpreted as a spiritual warfare against evil- not a warfare against non-Muslims. He said that people who believe that it’s right to attack non-Muslims and to lie are interpreting the Qu 'ran incorrectly.
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I agree with these statements.
But since there is no central authority within Islam, what you have is many “little tyrants” interpreting the Quran in ways that glorify them and promote a redemptive interpretation of violence.
Jihad is what Muslims do instead of Reconciliation-- that is, regret, confession, penitence and good works-- these are the ways in which the Christian fights evil within himself.
We cannot purge ourselves of sin, even if we can amend our lives.
Only God can make you as if you never committed your sin, and then only way to access God for reconciliation is through prayer and sacrament.
 
I quoted a hadith where an early Muslim (IIRC, a companion) found out someone had hired a Christian and promptly demanded that he kick the Christian out of the city, then warned everyone to be on the lookout for Christians in disguise…and cited that verse of the Quran as a reminder. The Muslim I was talking to couldn’t respond, because really…how could he?
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Ye shall know them by their fruits.
This is probably why Christians in Moorish Spain were compelled to wear the zunnar.
 
I see nothing in the content of the Christian faith that would force a Christian to lie about his or her faith.
There are no threats to the well-being of society, no threats to impose totalitarian ideology in the religion itself.
Also, the project of comparing the Bible with the Koran, I think, is futile. There will be more contrasts than similar points.
All religions and cultures are not the same, and the multicultural contention that they are is just plain wrong.
 
Also, the project of comparing the Bible with the Koran, I think, is futile. There will be more contrasts than similar points.
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I think that there could be more insights if one were to compare the sacred writings of Islam with those of LDS.
 
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