Comparing the Koran with the Bible

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Islam has absolutely nothing to do with terrorism.

It’s socioeconomics, combined with political rage. It’s a coincidence they’re Muslim. There’s enough terror in the Bible that if Christianity were the dominant religion in that area, the same thing would happen. Psalm 137:9, anyone?
 
NicholasGH said:
Islam has absolutely nothing to do with terrorism.

It’s socioeconomics, combined with political rage. It’s a coincidence they’re Muslim. There’s enough terror in the Bible that if Christianity were the dominant religion in that area, the same thing would happen. Psalm 137:9, anyone?
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I already addressed that in this post. I’d also like to know one passage in the New Testament where Christ or an apostle tells His followers to make war against unbelievers until they are either subjugated or become Christian (as S. 9:29 does in a Muslim context).
 
Byzantine_Wolf said:
I already addressed that in this post. I’d also like to know one passage in the New Testament where Christ or an apostle tells His followers to make war against unbelievers until they are either subjugated or become Christian (as S. 9:29 does in a Muslim context).
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I like the New Testament-even the most ardent of atheist accepts that Yeshua bin Miriam was a good guy-Dawkins included. There is no such passage.

Yet how about the Old Testament? All the passages in which Yahweh commands the murder of thousands? That could easily be used to justify a holy war.
 
NicholasGH said:
I like the New Testament-even the most ardent of atheist accepts that Yeshua bin Miriam was a good guy-Dawkins included. There is no such passage.

Yet how about the Old Testament? All the passages in which Yahweh commands the murder of thousands? That could easily be used to justify a holy war.
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You are a Catholic, right? :confused:

And they could be used to justify a holy war, if taken completely out of context, most of which is historical. That’s why I went to the New Testament, which is the standard most Christians live in today. So I will ask again: can you give me a passage like S. 9:29 in the Quran where it is directly commanded by God for His people to make war against unbelievers? You admit there’s none, so I don’t see where your point is. To say, “But but, there are violent passages in the Bible too!” is a combination of the non sequitor and tu quoque fallacy. It doesn’t hide the blatantly violent (and imperatively so) in the Quran.
 
Nominally a Catholic. I find serious problems with the existence of an all loving God, an the existence of Hell, and the existence of suffering. The quote in your signature sums up all the problems I have. Perhaps I could sum up my beliefs with the statement “If there is some all loving God up there, I’m sure he cares more about the way we treat each other than the way we worship Him.”

And you’re right-Christians as a whole live their lives based on the New Testament, yet most mainstream branches of Christianity accept the divinely inspired nature of the Old Testament. Most Muslims do not kill non-believers. Both holy books have serious moral problems, yet neither is worse than the other.
 
NicholasGH said:
Nominally a Catholic. I find serious problems with the existence of an all loving God, an the existence of Hell, and the existence of suffering. The quote in your signature sums up all the problems I have. Perhaps I could sum up my beliefs with the statement “If there is some all loving God up there, I’m sure he cares more about the way we treat each other than the way we worship Him.”

And you’re right-Christians as a whole live their lives based on the New Testament, yet most mainstream branches of Christianity accept the divinely inspired nature of the Old Testament. Most Muslims do not kill non-believers. Both holy books have serious moral problems, yet neither is worse than the other.
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First, you haven’t responded to my question regarding the NT and Quran. The answer is because there is no comparison. You don’t see Christ telling His followers to do what Mohammad did his in S. 9:29. To say “Well all holy books have moral problems!” without really addressing the differences therein and refusing to answer questions regarding is, in essence to simply answer with a blank statement.

Second, to say “nominally a Catholic” is, in essence, to say “not a Catholic,” and really not a Christian. I say this not out of contention but concern: your problem is not that God exists, but that you don’t like who God is.
 
Byzantine_Wolf said:
First, you haven’t responded to my question regarding the NT and Quran. The answer is because there is no comparison. You don’t see Christ telling His followers to do what Mohammad did his in S. 9:29. To say “Well all holy books have moral problems!” without really addressing the differences therein and refusing to answer questions regarding is, in essence to simply answer with a blank statement.

Second, to say “nominally a Catholic” is, in essence, to say “not a Catholic,” and really not a Christian. I say this not out of contention but concern: your problem is not that God exists, but that you don’t like who God is.
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No. Jesus never told his followers to do that. You are right. Yet the Old Testament is vicious, and, if placed in the hands of extremists, would be dangerous. So perhaps yes, the NT is morally superior, so to speak, than the Quran.

And no, I do not like the God worshipped by mainstream Christianity. I also do not believe that that God is real, for several reasons, but mainly, the lack of evidence.

And before you quote all the arguments for God, I’m familiar with most of them, and I think several are good. But what is created is a very compelling argument for Deism. Yet Christianity offers very little, if any, rational proof. I make (or rather, I try to make 😛 ) my decisions on rationalism. Religion is no exception.
 
NicholasGH said:
No. Jesus never told his followers to do that. You are right. Yet the Old Testament is vicious, and, if placed in the hands of extremists, would be dangerous. So perhaps yes, the NT is morally superior, so to speak, than the Quran.
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Can you quote me one passage in the Old Testament where God gives a perpetual order (to be carried out even today) for His followers to kill unbelievers until they’re subjugated or convert?
 
Byzantine_Wolf said:
Can you quote me one passage in the Old Testament where God gives a perpetual order (to be carried out even today) for His followers to kill unbelievers until they’re subjugated or convert?
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I cannot, because to my knowledge, no such passage exists.

That does not change the fact that what the God of the OT has done is morally reprehensible. The execution of the man who gathered sticks on the Sabbath?

Most of this was changed by the New Testament-but the New Testament is unreliable. Try reading Bart Ehrman’s Jesus, Interrupted to get a sense of what I’m talking about.\
 
NicholasGH said:
I cannot, because to my knowledge, no such passage exists.

That does not change the fact that what the God of the OT has done is morally reprehensible. The execution of the man who gathered sticks on the Sabbath?

Most of this was changed by the New Testament-but the New Testament is unreliable. Try reading Bart Ehrman’s Jesus, Interrupted to get a sense of what I’m talking about.\
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Funny ~ what made you change yoru religion status on your profile from “Catholic” to “beats me” within this past 30 or so minutes…
 
I wrote Catholic as my religion a long while ago. At this point, I do now know what I am religiously, because I do not know what exists spiritually. I do not want people to get confused.
 
flower_of_God said:
** Jesus, a so called prophet in islam ( blasphemy for christians)
**

Attention. you must haven’t read this!
Christians say it is about Jesus while Muslims say it is about Muhammed.
You are against both !
Deuteronomy 18:18
I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
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slave_of_god said:
Attention. you must haven’t read this!
Christians say it is about Jesus while Muslims say it is about Muhammed.
You are against both !
Deuteronomy 18:18
I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
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Deuteronomy 18:18 is speaking a prophet being raised up from among the Jews, not the Ishmaelites (later Arabs) who had already been separated. This is identified as the Messiah, and is attributed to Christ (Acts 3:17-26). No one in the Old Testament, or the New Testament for that matter, was expecting Mohammad as a valid prophet.
 
Byzantine_Wolf said:
Deuteronomy 18:18 is speaking a prophet being raised up from among the Jews, not the Ishmaelites (later Arabs) who had already been separated. This is identified as the Messiah, and is attributed to Christ (Acts 3:17-26). No one in the Old Testament, or the New Testament for that matter, was expecting Mohammad as a valid prophet.
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you said that Jesus, a so called prophet in islam ( blasphemy for christians)
is that mean that jesus , a so called prophet by mosas (pbuh) in OT is blasphemy for christians either

secondly , i think that jews expected mohammed (pbuh)

And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who are you? 20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ. 21 And they asked him, What then? Are you Elias? And he said, I am not. Are you that prophet? And he answered, No. [Bible - John 1:20]

then again

24Now they had been sent from the Pharisees. 25They asked him, and said to him, “Why then are you baptizing, if you are not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?”
 
Byzantine_Wolf said:
You are a Catholic, right? :confused:

And they could be used to justify a holy war, if taken completely out of context, most of which is historical. That’s why I went to the New Testament, which is the standard most Christians live in today. So I will ask again: can you give me a passage like S. 9:29 in the Quran where it is directly commanded by God for His people to make war against unbelievers? You admit there’s none, so I don’t see where your point is. To say, “But but, there are violent passages in the Bible too!” is a combination of the non sequitor and tu quoque fallacy. It doesn’t hide the blatantly violent (and imperatively so) in the Quran.
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it required for our prophet 13 years untill the first command to muslims to defend thier relegion , families and society and land .

what was the duration of jesus’s preaching ? it was 3 years
how many of followers did he have in those 3 years to talking about wars !
commanding them to wage a war in this early time with such weak power is like a suicide

tell me do you believe that Mosas (pbuh) and david and solimon (pbut) are prophets of doom ?
 
elwill said:
you said that Jesus, a so called prophet in islam ( blasphemy for christians)
is that mean that jesus , a so called prophet by mosas (pbuh) in OT is blasphemy for christians either

secondly , i think that jews expected mohammed (pbuh)

And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who are you? 20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ. 21 And they asked him, What then? Are you Elias? And he said, I am not. Are you that prophet? And he answered, No. [Bible - John 1:20]

then again

24Now they had been sent from the Pharisees. 25They asked him, and said to him, “Why then are you baptizing, if you are not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?”
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They werent anticipating mohammad, they were expecting a Jew, the messiah., from the House of David. Mohammad is not even close to what they were looking for. You are quoting from the Gospel of John, that is part of the life of Jesus. You simply cannot take a question from a narrative about a specific person and claim it must mean someone entirely unknown and unmentioned! Especially since you are taking it from the Bible, which you claim is corrupted! That really doesnt make logical sense.
 
elwill said:
it required for our prophet 13 years untill the first command to muslims to defend thier relegion , families and society and land .

what was the duration of jesus’s preaching ? it was 3 years
how many of followers did he have in those 3 years to talking about wars !
commanding them to wage a war in this early time with such weak power is like a suicide

tell me do you believe that Mosas (pbuh) and david and solimon (pbut) are prophets of doom ?
Click to expand...
That misses the point. Jesus’ message was never about violence and whether he was here 13 yrs or 3 yrs, his message would not be about violence. Jesus/God is all about love & our FREE WILL to accept or reject it. Jesus did not allow fighting to “defend” Himself, his people or possessions all the way up to his death. He gave himself for his people & message. Love.

He did not march back to those that rejected him and command that they accept him or die! He did not tell his disciples they could take the possessions (land, women, money, slaves etc) of those men who rejected him, he did not order the heads to be cut off of those who rejected him, he never ordered the disciples to pull down the pants of young Jewish boys to see if they had hair to determine whether they would be killed.
How is it defending your religion, land or families to march on & attack someone who did not attack you? Wouldnt that be offense & not defense?
 
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