Comparing the Koran with the Bible

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offcourse the circumestances is very important
Again why bother quoting books that contain corrupt passages? It leads you back to the issues Byzantine Wolf has raised concerning this earlier in the thread, which you have still not addressed. Because to do so means facing the fact that Islam is ultimately mistaken.
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when i discuss islam , i use islamic sources
when i discuss christianity , i use christians sources

i know that you believe in entire bible to be not corrupted , so that i expect convinced answers for some verses which seems to me in contradiction with what you believe
 
autdrew said:
They werent anticipating mohammad, they were expecting a Jew, the messiah., from the House of David. Mohammad is not even close to what they were looking for. You are quoting from the Gospel of John, that is part of the life of Jesus. You simply cannot take a question from a narrative about a specific person and claim it must mean someone entirely unknown and unmentioned! Especially since you are taking it from the Bible, which you claim is corrupted! That really doesnt make logical sense.
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who is “that prophet” they asked about ?
 
elwill said:
who is “that prophet” they asked about ?
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they were expecting a Jew, the messiah., from the House of David.
The prophecies they were familiar with, from what we call the old testament & the prophets, told them that there would be a messiah raised from among them, from the house of David. He would be a great leader of his people.

“That prophet” Christians call Jesus the Christ. The Jews of the time had the choice to believe Was he the promised one? Some said yes = Christians, some said no = Jews still waiting for the Messiah. Mo is no where involved in this story. To say that this conversation between John the Baptist (a Jew) & the Jewish authorities of his time & the profit mohommad is beyond a massive leap of faith. It is reading something into the text that you WANT to be there but in context, is dishonest delusion.
 
David & Solomon have never been considered prophets. They were Kings, David was specially chosen by God to do great things but he was not given a prophetic mission. The same can be said for Solomon. Moses is a different story.
 
2Samuel 11:27…But the Lord was displeased with what David had done. 12:13 Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord”
David calls himself a sinner! He knew that he had done a very evil thing in having Uriah killed after sleeping with his wife. He tried to rationalize it & tried to “fix” it by getting him to sleep with his wife himself but Uriah was more honorable than David at that moment & David had him killed. The child that was conceived died. Later David & Bathsheeba had Solomon, who was wise but not sinless.
 
elwill said:
you said that Jesus, a so called prophet in islam ( blasphemy for christians)
is that mean that jesus , a so called prophet by mosas (pbuh) in OT is blasphemy for christians either

secondly , i think that jews expected mohammed (pbuh)

And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who are you? 20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ. 21 And they asked him, What then? Are you Elias? And he said, I am not. Are you that prophet? And he answered, No. [Bible - John 1:20]

then again

24Now they had been sent from the Pharisees. 25They asked him, and said to him, “Why then are you baptizing, if you are not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?”
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John 1:26-31
John answered them, "I baptize with water; but there is one AMONG you whom you do not recognize, the one who is coming after me, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to untie, This happened in Bethany across the Jordan, where John was baptizing. THE NEXT DAY he saw Jesus coming toward him and said “Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. HE IS THE ONE OF WHOM I SAID ‘a man is coming after me who ranks ahead of me because he existed before me’. I did not know him, but the reason why I came baptizing with water was that he might be made known to Israel”.
Rather than cutting a line of scripture out & trying to apply it to someone else, why not read the entire paragraph, John answers the question himself.
 
Now I am curious. How can he be considered sinless by Islam when he calls himself a sinner? Is it like the profit? because God chose him for a mission, anything he does in furthering that mission is permissible?
 
Mohammed did this when he claimed to be the last in the line of Biblical prophets. So he is just doing what Mohammed did.

The following is a re-post from another thread, for the benefit of those who might have missed it:

Error cannot produce truth. Any idea that relies on error to prove itself is itself in error.
Fact # 1: Mohammed relies on the Bible to verify himself as a prophet. [The fact that he is self-proclaimed is something else.]
Fact # 2: Mohammed says the Bible is in error [through corruption].
Fact # 3: Because they rely on error, Mohammed and Islam, therefore, are in error and should be rejected based on their own contradictory claims.
Consequently, Mohammed has placed himself in an inescapable dilemma. See this analysis for details.
 
Hey, elwill’s back!

Elwill, before I respond to your new posts, I responded to your earlier posts here and here. I was awaiting your response to them.
 
autdrew said:
Now I am curious. How can he be considered sinless by Islam when he calls himself a sinner? Is it like the profit? because God chose him for a mission, anything he does in furthering that mission is permissible?
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Most likely because, again, Mohammad didn’t know the full story of David or the real story and only had to work with what he knew. If you read the Quran you’ll find other interesting little tidbits, such as Lot being a prophet, Jacob secretly knowing Joshua had been sold, and one of Noah’s sons dying in the flood, none of which are substantiated in the Bible. Yet we are supposed to take Mohammad’s version to heart because, essentially, he says so.
 
Oh yeah and I almost forgot - Abraham and Ishmael built the Ka’ba. Also something the original writers of the Old Testament apparently forgot all about. 😃
 
One would think that archaeological written evidence of this would abound
 
sedonaman said:
Maybe he’s planten.
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If he starts saying my posts are too long to respond to, or he asks me to link to them again, or he links to a response made before the post and claims he already did answer them…then I’ll start to worry. 😦
sedonaman said:
One would think that archaeological written evidence of this would abound
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Maybe God allowed all that to be destroyed too.
 
Byzantine_Wolf said:
…

Maybe God [sic] allowed all that to be destroyed too.
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Let’s see. Allah sent 124,000 prophets to the peoples of the world [supposedly to inform them of Islam for all time] and then let all the evidence of their mission get destroyed. Makes perfect sense.
 
sedonaman said:
Let’s see. Allah sent 124,000 prophets to the peoples of the world [supposedly to inform them of Islam for all time] and then let all the evidence of their mission get destroyed. Makes perfect sense.
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Says you. Allah allowed the messages of two of his greatest prophets (Moses and Jesus) get corrupted beyond use by mortal men. Letting the evidence of 124,000 prophets disappear would be small fry by comparison. Nothing is impossible for Allah. :mad:
 
Byzantine_Wolf said:
I wonder if you fully do. I say that not to be condescending, but because I feel that you are in essence simply throwing my opinion out. Your response is similar to, “Yeah yeah whatever, now I’m gonna say this.” These are things you cannot run away from, elwill. They confirm Christ’s deity. To say that it is just a “way in understanding” is to ignore what is given before you. You have a responsibility to either accept the truth or reject it. In any case, if you’re going to throw “verses from the Bible” at me, **I would want you to first admit this statement:

The scripture of the New Testament is trustworthy and has not been corrupted**.
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i’m sorry i can’t admit this statement .
we are discussed verses which you present as a proof for his divinity , i shared you my openion and told you why it’s not clear and not sufficient proofs for your beleifs in his divinity ( so didn’t argue about the corrupted verses and i didn’t respond that these verses are lies , i just discuss your understanding for the words be written in the bible , my own beliefs for the bible isn’t an issue here )

i wanted to take my chance to discuss the other verses which show me that he can’t to be a God so that i can know how it works out with you , or may be you just ignore it

anyway, if you are not ready for it , so it’s okey
your request not accepted , so that i will assume that we will not go through it , and i respect your desires
If you deny that statement, then any scripture you quote will only prove your entire argument inconsistent. You’ll be quoting scripture to us that you don’t believe in the first place, and you’ll be shown to be intellectually dishonest and upholding double standards. If, however, you accept that statement, then you can use those verses freely, however you must then recognize that any Islamic arguments that the Bible has been corrupted is wrong, and admit that the Quran must therefore be held up to the same standards as the New Testament.
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Whether or not you can agree to this statement will decide whether or not you can quote verses from the NT for this discussion. We are not simply placing demands, we are making a call for consistent intellectual honesty.
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our discussion was about . if jesus claimed his divinity and asked his followers to worship him

just to remind you with the beginning of this discussion , page # 15 post # 218
this was you words
Byzantine_Wolf said:
This argumentation is fallacious for a few reasons:
  • We are told that Jesus never said the exact words, “I am God.” Well, neither did He ever say “I am a prophet,” nor “I am just a messenger” either. Therefore by the Muslim’s own standards Jesus is neither God, prophet nor messenger.
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so , our discussion was about what he really said according to the bible

now tell me , how can i make this argument without quoting the bible
:confused:
 
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