Conflicts sway world of fashion- Muslim-ization' of Women's Fashion

[BryPGuy89]

inJESUS:

show me where i condemed everything muslim do and show me whats wrong with this : yes to modesty no to extremism. If you are talking about muslim men staring then it is my OWN experience…truth hurts.

it is you who talk about nakedness.and mini-skirts and open shirts…so i reply: either nakedness or tents?
in a muslim world you DONT have the choice of not wearing modestly…in US YOU HAVE.

Your very attitude towards the group is unpleasant, and from other threads I know you openly condemn the Islamic faith. Were does it say that is wrong? In the CCC, John Paul II’s oun words on the subject, and the CHurches very teaching of the subject is contrary to what you say.

I say tents to nakedness. I’d rather have an extrme covering society then half naked women walking around.

This choice of choosing to dress modestly in the US has lead down a very bad path and makes the country that much less of a good place.

 

[BryPGuy89]

StMarkEofE:

I dont like the relaxed sexual and social norms any more than you do. BUT, we do live in a democratic republic which has a Constitution and Bill of Rights. This means that there will be some who will take things to the extreme to the consternation of their neighbors but as long as its within the law and is on firm constitutional grounds it has to be protected. The good with the bad and we accept this as the price of freedom and democracy. The problem comes when a government is of men and not of laws which fail to apply equal rights to their citizens. There are many countries who get their laws from men but we here in the United States declare our rights come from God himself as is state in the constitution that ALL men (mankind) are created equal AND endownded by their CREATOR with certain inalienable RIGHTS include Life, Liberty and the Persuit of Happiness. Let us hope that no outside influences change this precious document.

For one “creator” doesn’t mean God, God is now not alowed to be associated with the Government remember? Plus if our rights of of God, what is to say the King who we got our independence wasn’t doing the same? With the constitution being rather vague and loose, we have a lot of interpretation and what not. The supreme court, right you’ve heard of them? They determine what is constitutional, guess what they legalized murder of unborn children, what is next anti Christian laws and encouragement of Satanism, which some of our very founding fathers were part of?

 

[BryPGuy89]

inJESUS:

agree…we all agreed on this. good.
the US is Christian?? oh my…so if someone is called Mike or Jonathan he is Christian?? a Christian is someone who follows Jesus…if he doesnt, he is NOT Christian…thats the muslim propaganda that the West is Christian…

i never said ONLY muslim stare…i said : in my country, they stare even if they see modestly dressed women…

show me where i said this.

you know what modesty is don’t you?

then either change country or go to shops where you find what you want…in the US you find everything and you can choose your own world…thats your merit in God’s eyes…i don’t think those who want to live according to Jesus have any problem.

agree.

46% of American population claim to be of the Christian faith, 26% of them Catholic, rest of protestant denominations. Of any group in the US, Christians make up the majority and majority are in leadership positions.

Stores no longer sell skirts that are longer, or less revealing clothes. In America it is no longer profitable to sell such things. You can’t choose your own world unless you have the money, other wise you can try, but only that.

P.S. what country/nationality are you? Or what country do you live in that you keep refering too?

 

[BryPGuy89]

StMarkEofE:

Who is putting it beyond criticism? I see a lot of things wrong with this country, but by the same token I see a heck of a lot more good that this country is as well. The problem comes from those who have moved here from repressive countries such as Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Iran and the like and expects to see a similar form of government here. And when they dont they complain that the country should be more like theirs back home. Well we arent like them and hopefully never will.

Those people who you say are ‘backwards and oppressive’ will most likely continue to say that we are the great satan no matter what we do.

The middle east is not the only place with governments you find repressive, S. American, African, Asian, and Oceanic, ,ost not Muslim too. You seem to forget the rest of the world.
I my self prefere a more strict leadership of government, some may already know from other threads. I like the standards and keeping what is right the norm and not allowing the extremes to flare.

 

[inJESUS]

Eden:

Just on the driver’s license issue, I think a woman should not be allowed to wear a burqa for her photograph. I’m glad the case was dismissed. An image of the face is needed not just for state records but also to protect from identity theft. Imagine if you stole a purse of a woman who wore a burqa. You would have her checkbook, credit card and driver’s license. Let’s say that thief (man or woman) dressed in a burqa just with the slit showing their eyes. A criminal could cash a check that way and never be detected because they could easily look just like the image in the photograph.

Perhaps some women do choose to wear the burqa, but for many women it is oppression. In Afghanistan under the Taliban, women said that they routinely bumped into things in the street because it was difficult to see. The burqa there did not have a slit for the eyes; they have to look through a woven kind of fabric. Not sure what that’s called. It also gets very hot under there and you are not breathing fresh air. If a woman under the Taliban was caught on the street exposing their face even for a brief second to get air or to see better where they were going, they could be beaten on the street by men they don’t even know. In the hot weather it would be oppressive inside that garment with heat and stale air; not just figuratively oppressive.

Modesty in dress is one thing - but everything in moderation. You have nothing left to the imagination on one extreme and everything left to the imagination on the other. True modesty is somewhere in the middle.

 

[BryPGuy89]

Cyber Knight:

We are open to anything including dicussing their faith and ours.
Attack Muslims? lol what did Justice2006 do with the OT?
You think you are the only one who understand the church teaching? let me tell you gay, I was atheist and then protestant and then catholic and live in islamic state and I have seen they attack my church mentally and physically. Dont you think I have right to defend my faith here? by bringing some information that some of catholic may not know about Islam really is? get reall buddy!
I guess you should look for another protestants forums.
InJESUS and I think there is no problem with the protestants anywhere. Their reverends are not commaning to kill the infidels.
Agree with you
Maybe you should be come a bit logic here. We are attacking the doctrines and its evil teaching not the person. We are not planning to kill the muslims, we are not planning to bomb the mosque, we are not threatening them.

I mean good wholesome people with good morale ans ethic, by Christian standards.

I live in the US and have exactly the same problems with attacks. What makes it any different living in a Muslim country? Defend your faith, but don’t attack others. Your personal experience is not the same as someone elses, that is where biases start, I have certain views on certain types of people because of my experience with them , doesn’t mean I can’t look around that and still behave in a Christain manner.

I chose this forum because I wanted to talk to what I hoped to be good Christian people and esspecially Catholics on subjects.

Protestants are condeming and attacking Catholics, verbally and physically though, bringing down the truth and seperating the body of Christ over and again.

The Islamic faith’s actual teachings are not evil, some are not the same as Christians, but not evil, I’ve yet to hear one that is evil. Again I say it again, the bombings and what not are not part of Islamic faith and I find it repulsive when people associate it in such loose terms.

 

[Booklover]

Eden:

Perhaps some women do choose to wear the burqa, but for many women it is oppression. In Afghanistan under the Taliban, women said that they routinely bumped into things in the street because it was difficult to see.

The burqa there did not have a slit for the eyes; they have to look through a woven kind of fabric. Not sure what that’s called. It also gets very hot under there and you are not breathing fresh air. If a woman under the Taliban was caught on the street exposing their face even for a brief second to get air or to see better where they were going, they could be beaten on the street by men they don’t even know. In the hot weather it would be oppressive inside that garment with heat an

d stale air; not just figuratively oppressive.

And what do BryPGuy89 and Pro_Universal (who would do better to change his name to Pro_Muslim) have to say about any of this? I’ve noticed that you two are always ready to condemn the west but when it’s Muslims that do something wrong, you always look the other way and ignore it. Do you think that this kind of behaviour towards women is good?

Or making women dress like this?

Moderator Note: Removed offensive video

Is this the way to honor womanhood? There is no individuality, personality or identity among them, because Islam stifles all that! They look like those bag ladies one sees pushing supermarket trollies full of junk. Even their own kids wouldn’t recognize their mothers among that lot!

 

[pro_universal]

I’ve noticed that you two are always ready to condemn the west but when it’s Muslims that do something wrong, you always look the other way and ignore it. Do you think that this kind of behaviour towards women is good?

Of course this behavior is wrong. What I think you’re missing is that most muslims agree with us that treating women this way is wrong.

There is no individuality, personality or identity among them, because Islam stifles all that! They look like those bag ladies one sees pushing supermarket trollies full of junk. Even their own kids wouldn’t recognize their mothers among that lot!

Again, first, it’s not that different from a traditional habit. I am highly offended by the idea that donning traditional garb that looks similar to what our Sisters wear makes people look like “bag ladies.”

Second, most muslims do not wear burqas, and that’s off the point of the article, which was about more conservative fashion trends.

Instead of being an excuse to bash islam, this article should be a way for us to say “good, there’s something we can agree with muslims on-that dressing modestly is something to value”

 

[4HisChurch]

pro_universal:

Second, most muslims do not wear burqas, and that’s off the point of the article, which was about more conservative fashion trends.

Instead of being an excuse to bash islam, this article should be a way for us to say “good, there’s something we can agree with muslims on-that dressing modestly is something to value”

Exactly!

 

[Myangel]

BryPGuy89:

inJESUS:

She’d still be able to wear it if she were driving, what difference would it make.

I have a cousin who works in a bank, he had a muslim women come in to withdraw some money, he asked for identification and he could not identify her due to her burqa, so she was refused service. In Australia, as well as many other countries, it is the law to show identification when withdrawing money, if you cant dont have a bank account! And it is the law to have photo identification to have a licence, if a muslim women were driving in her burqa and she was pulled over by the police she would HAVE to identify herself. If they dont like the law, dont drive.

 

[Shadowcry]

They could move to Canada

 

[Booklover]

pro_universal:

Of course this behavior is wrong. What I think you’re missing is that most muslims agree with us that treating women this way is wrong.

Most Muslims agree that this is wrong? Are you sure of that? Why are women told what they have to wear in the first place? That’s discriminatory, as they couldn’t even make decisions! But that’s Islam all over. Muslims have to do everything the Islamic way! No ifs or buts!

Again, first, it’s not that different from a traditional habit. I am highly offended by the idea that donning traditional garb that looks similar to what our Sisters wear makes people look like “bag ladies.”

Again you’re twisting what I said! I DID NOT say that nun’s habits make them look like bag ladies, you said that! You made the comparison, I did not! I have never thought for one minute that nuns look like that!

Second, most muslims do not wear burqas, and that’s off the point of the article, which was about more conservative fashion trends.

Instead of being an excuse to bash islam, this article should be a way for us to say “good, there’s something we can agree with muslims on-that dressing modestly is something to value”

I agree that dressing modestly is a virtue, and women should be able to choose pretty, feminine clothes!

 

[BryPGuy89]

MugenOne:

The US and the West may be evil. The US and the West may be greedy, but there’s no other country that has the generousity and charity like the West. God would have destroyed the West already if it’s not for our kind hearts. The West gives more aids than any one country on Earth i.e. Tsunami 2005. Helps come in all forms not just money- military, civilian, public, and private people and organizations.

The West has more money to be more generous, that is like comparing a lower income family and their donations to a high income family and their donations, (being both are equally generios to their means). God doesn’t so interfere by eradicating bad countries so I’ll ignore that comment. Again we have the resources and what not to give and help more than others.

 

[BryPGuy89]

Booklover:

Eden:

Perhaps some women do choose to wear the burqa, but for many women it is oppression. In Afghanistan under the Taliban, women said that they routinely bumped into things in the street because it was difficult to see.

And what do BryPGuy89 and Pro_Universal (who would do better to change his name to Pro_Muslim) have to say about any of this? I’ve noticed that you two are always ready to condemn the west but when it’s Muslims that do something wrong, you always look the other way and ignore it. Do you think that this kind of behaviour towards women is good?

Or making women dress like this?

Is this the way to honor womanhood? There is no individuality, personality or identity among them, because Islam stifles all that! They look like those bag ladies one sees pushing supermarket trollies full of junk. Even their own kids wouldn’t recognize their mothers among that lot!

I understand the Mulsim treatment of women is extreme, but I approve of the dress code. I will defend either side as long as there is something to defend. America has just as many negatives as the Middle East and positives. I ignore nothing, you do my friend, you attack the Islamic religion, but refuse to give grounds or reasons to the questions and statements I make. You continue to ask me questions that are one sided, but refuse to see my side of the issue, I take what you say and yes I know that the clothing is a little over the top, but you don’t seem to realize the horrible clothing trends that are in climax in the USA. I would rather have shapeless covered women then mostly naked walking around the country. I acknowledge that they have some extrme ways of life in comparison to us, but not all of it is so negative and widespread as you make it. I have taken in what you have said and considered it often, I just don’t see any justification for many of your views, ecpessially when you claim to be Christian, above that I beleive you have claimed to be Catholic. I feel upset to see how the future is turning to one sided arguments and open biased sgainst groups of people (religion w/e). You often have views and opinions that are contrary to Church teaching and the teachings of Christ, this troubles me most, what are people today being taught in their religious aspect of education?

 

[BryPGuy89]

Myangel:

BryPGuy89:

I have a cousin who works in a bank, he had a muslim women come in to withdraw some money, he asked for identification and he could not identify her due to her burqa, so she was refused service. In Australia, as well as many other countries, it is the law to show identification when withdrawing money, if you cant dont have a bank account! And it is the law to have photo identification to have a licence, if a muslim women were driving in her burqa and she was pulled over by the police she would HAVE to identify herself. If they dont like the law, dont drive.

They complain about our laws being wrong and we justify them, but when we hear that hey we can’t wear crosses in Saudi Arabia, how rediculous and wrong people say. This is in the same catagory for anyone hwo would like to say it isn’t. Can any one justify this logic for me? Why do you see it so one sided.

 

[BryPGuy89]

Booklover:

Most Muslims agree that this is wrong? Are you sure of that? Why are women told what they have to wear in the first place? That’s discriminatory, as they couldn’t even make decisions! But that’s Islam all over. Muslims have to do everything the Islamic way! No ifs or buts!

Again you’re twisting what I said! I DID NOT say that nun’s habits make them look like bag ladies, you said that! You made the comparison, I did not! I have never thought for one minute that nuns look like that!

I agree that dressing modestly is a virtue, and women should be able to choose pretty, feminine clothes!

He was addressing the shooting I beleive, not the clothes style. The abuse of women is what is agreed to be wrong. The clothing for one is not forced on them, most women openly choose to wear that clothing.

You did call someone wear something very familiar to a nun’s habit a bag lady, thus it is really implied that anyone who wears that kind of clothing is a bag lady. You now are being one sided, the clothing is very similar, but you insult only one, why?

What isn’t feminie about a long dress? They’re not warying baggy pants or anything.

 

[Booklover]

BryPGuy89:

Booklover:

I understand the Mulsim treatment of women is extreme, but I approve of the dress code. I will defend either side as long as there is something to defend. America has just as many negatives as the Middle East and positives. I ignore nothing, you do my friend, you attack the Islamic religion, but refuse to give grounds or reasons to the questions and statements I make. You continue to ask me questions that are one sided, but refuse to see my side of the issue, I take what you say and yes I know that the clothing is a little over the top, but you don’t seem to realize the horrible clothing trends that are in climax in the USA. I would rather have shapeless covered women then mostly naked walking around the country. I acknowledge that they have some extrme ways of life in comparison to us, but not all of it is so negative and widespread as you make it. I have taken in what you have said and considered it often, I just don’t see any justification for many of your views, ecpessially when you claim to be Christian, above that I beleive you have claimed to be Catholic. I feel upset to see how the future is turning to one sided arguments and open biased sgainst groups of people (religion w/e). You often have views and opinions that are contrary to Church teaching and the teachings of Christ, this troubles me most, what are people today being taught in their religious aspect of education?

It’s because I am a Christian and a Catholic that I defend the Church and oppose any form of Islamization. What do you consider views and opinions that are contrary to Church teachings and the teachings of Christ?The fact that I oppose Islam? Islam wants to destroy Christianity! That’s a good enough reason to oppose it and its false teachings!

Jesus did not pussyfoot around with the moneychangers who were defiling his Father’s house or hesitate to call people “hypocrites” when he had to!

 

[Booklover]

BryPGuy89:

He was addressing the shooting I beleive, not the clothes style. The abuse of women is what is agreed to be wrong. The clothing for one is not forced on them, most women openly choose to wear that clothing.

You did call someone wear something very familiar to a nun’s habit a bag lady, thus it is really implied that anyone who wears that kind of clothing is a bag lady. You now are being one sided, the clothing is very similar, but you insult only one, why?

What isn’t feminie about a long dress? They’re not warying baggy pants or anything.

Again you’re also putting words into my mouth! I never said that nuns’ habits make them look like bag ladies! You love to twist meanings, don’t you? Because you’re a man you can’t see any difference between nuns’ habits and the clothes in the picture.

 

[Eden]

http://www.tribalelegance.net/Afghani Burqa.gif

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0385510926.01.PE39.Mother-Angelica-The-Remarkable-Story-of-a-Nun-Her-Nerve-and-a-Network-of-Miracles.SCLZZZZZZZ.jpg

Are the nun’s habit and the burqa/hijab really as similar to eachother as some posters make them out to be?

 

[pro_universal]

Are the nun’s habit and the burqa/hijab really as similar to eachother as some posters make them out to be?

Yes. If you changed the colors on that blue one to black, and took off the veil (which almost no country requires and few wear), it would be virtually identical.

Are you sure of that? Why are women told what they have to wear in the first place? That’s discriminatory, as they couldn’t even make decisions! But that’s Islam all over. Muslims have to do everything the Islamic way! No ifs or buts!

Women are limited in what they can wear in the west too, it’s just a different limitation. And be assured, if I as a man apppeared wearing short sleeves in any place that requires women to wear burqas, I would receive a punishment just as severe.

I am one hundred percent sure that the vast majority of muslim countries do not require Taliban-style dress, yes. They require more modest dress than we do in the United States, but they do not require burqas. (Indonesia and Pakistan come to mind immediately…)