Conflicts sway world of fashion- Muslim-ization' of Women's Fashion

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pro_universal:
Yes. If you changed the colors on that blue one to black, and took off the veil (which almost no country requires and few wear), it would be virtually identical.
Then you agree that a woman being required to cover her face is an abuse against women and should not be excused? Perhaps there are other faiths in which the beliefs could be used to justify requiring that a woman cover her face, such as in the Afghanistan of Taliban times. Do you know of any others? I don’t.

Also, I believe the first garment is similar to what the woman wanted to wear in her driver’s license photo. Surely, you agree that is an unreasonable request on the woman’s part?
 
Then you agree that a woman being required to cover her face is an abuse against women and should not be excused? Perhaps there are other faiths in which the beliefs could be used to justify requiring that a woman cover her face, such as in the Afghanistan of Taliban times. Do you know of any others? I don’t.
Of course it’s wrong. It’s also not the rule for most muslims, which is why the Taliban is about the only example of the practice you’ll find.

As for other religions, yes: Hinduism. Its traditional treatment of women is every bit as severe as the Taliban’s.
Also, I believe the first garment is similar to what the woman wanted to wear in her driver’s license photo. Surely, you agree that is an unreasonable request on the woman’s part
Yes, I think it’s unreasonable, but I watched her attorney speak on a program and he had a point: Several states make exceptions for iconoclastic christian minorities (Amish-type sects) and Florida itself issues a number of licenses without photos (reasons unknown). Why should those people get to have faceless photos for religious reasons when this woman cannot?
 
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pro_universal:
Yes, I think it’s unreasonable, but I watched her attorney speak on a program and he had a point: Several states make exceptions for iconoclastic christian minorities (Amish-type sects) and Florida itself issues a number of licenses without photos (reasons unknown). Why should those people get to have faceless photos for religious reasons when this woman cannot?
%between% http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/15/Sultaana1.jpg She was alread a convert to Islam when she allowed this mug shot to be taken of her when she was arrested on charges of abusing a foster child.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2a/Freeman_DL.jpg

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultaana_Freeman
 
I’m in Australia. The world’s most populous Islamic nation, Indonesia, is directly to our north. Without any editorial comment, there were protests in Djakarta recently by Moslem women promoting a anti-pornography law. Their point of objection is that while desirable on the outset, the law will make women dress more “traditionally”. They’re reading into it an application of Sharia-type rules regarding female dress. They’re seeing it as an attack on their freedom of religion and association. If I can find an on-line news report I will post the link.
 
Eden,

So maybe she didn’t really care about the religious principle. Who knows what she was thinking.

My point is: if the law allows for a no-photo license for other reasons, why should it prohibit someone from obtaining a no-photo license for this particular religious reason?
 
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pro_universal:
Eden,

So maybe she didn’t really care about the religious principle. Who knows what she was thinking.

My point is: if the law allows for a no-photo license for other reasons, why should it prohibit someone from obtaining a no-photo license for this particular religious reason?
The Wikipedia article states that the decision to allow her to cover her face in her license photo was overturned after 9/11. Many states revised the “no photo” option following 9/11.
 
The Wikipedia article states that the decision to allow her to cover her face in her license photo was overturned after 9/11. Many states revised the “no photo” option following 9/11.
Could be, I haven’t followed it since then. What I am opposed to is having special rules that target muslims only. If everyone has to put a photo on the license, that’s fine by me…perfectly reasonable.
 
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BryPGuy89:
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Myangel:
They complain about our laws being wrong and we justify them, but when we hear that hey we can’t wear crosses in Saudi Arabia, how rediculous and wrong people say. This is in the same catagory for anyone hwo would like to say it isn’t. Can any one justify this logic for me? Why do you see it so one sided.
So your telling me that a law requiring photo identification is not justifiable? Its simple, if you WISH to cover yourself, thats fine its their choice, but respect the laws and dont have a hissy fit when you cant drive or have a bank account due to not being able to identify yourself. Why is it that women were not allowed to drive in Afgan? Do Afgans require photo ID?

I live in Australia and the public school I went to does not even celebrate Easter or Christmas anymore due to most of the students being muslims, and crosses HAVE been taken down. What about the minority of christians who cant afford catholic schools and attend this public school, why do they have to miss out on christian celebrations in school? Especially when even our catholic schools, my nieces in particular DO ACCEPT muslim students explain this logic to me?
 
Maybe when rape and sexual harassment becomes less, the West will start to appreciate and see the wisdom behind the muslim women’s dress.
 
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Myangel:
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BryPGuy89:
I live in Australia and the public school I went to does not even celebrate Easter or Christmas anymore due to most of the students being muslims, and crosses HAVE been taken down. What about the minority of christians who cant afford catholic schools and attend this public school, why do they have to miss out on christian celebrations in school? Especially when even our catholic schools, my nieces in particular DO ACCEPT muslim students explain this logic to me?
maybe it is this : allow muslims to change things in your country; but if you go to their countries, shut up and live according to them. They are minority over there now and this is happening, just think what would happen when they increase?
 
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manx:
Maybe when rape and sexual harassment becomes less, the West will start to appreciate and see the wisdom behind the muslim women’s dress.
a bunch of muslims raped a nun some time ago…does it have to do with dress or immoral people?
 
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Booklover:
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BryPGuy89:
It’s because I am a Christian and a Catholic that I defend the Church and oppose any form of Islamization. What do you consider views and opinions that are contrary to Church teachings and the teachings of Christ?The fact that I oppose Islam? Islam wants to destroy Christianity! That’s a good enough reason to oppose it and its false teachings!

Jesus did not pussyfoot around with the moneychangers who were defiling his Father’s house or hesitate to call people “hypocrites” when he had to!
You have no problem mocking or what ever something of Islam, even though it is very similar to parts of Christianity, like the clothing, call them bag ladies when addressing Islam, but get defensive when someone brings up the fact that Christianity did/still does wear clothing simliar, then say you didn’t mock the nuns, who look very similar to the ones of Islam you did.
The CCC and John Paul II taught that the Islamic faith is a faith of God, same as our God, that we need to find common ground and build upon that and try for dialogue between the two. I have never heard that Islam wants to destroy Christianity, in fact I have seen it and heard that the Qur’an makes exceptions for the destroy infedel thing for Jews and Christians, because they are taught that we three follow the same God.
Jesus lost control of his anger once, everyother time he kindly and respectfully shared the truth with people not challenging and threatening them. He talked even to the sinners and what not, with love and peace, not you appose my faith so I hate your teachings and you’re going to Hell if you don’t convert now stuff. Jesus never came out and said such things instead he turned the other cheek and spoke of the truth and allowed people to hear it and come by faith to their decisions. A peaceful friendly faith who is open to others and respectful gains much more respectability then one that condemns and lashes out at those who have different teachings. I am starting to fail in my own faith in the Church just listening to the terrible things I’ve heard on this forum about Islam in particular. If this is how the followers of the Church are turning out to be then I don’t know, it is offsetting and disappointing to hear such things. I guess if/when I continue with my dreams of becoming clergy I can be able to do more to help the CHurch wiht getting it’s own views out there for the followers to follow. It becomes more and more evident that few here truly know what is taugt by the Church and it’s standings on certain things.
 
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Booklover:
Again you’re also putting words into my mouth! I never said that nuns’ habits make them look like bag ladies! You love to twist meanings, don’t you? Because you’re a man you can’t see any difference between nuns’ habits and the clothes in the picture. 😦
I see the difference, but the overall clothing appearance is allmost identical. You insult one you have to insult the other who looks similar. Regardless if you say it directly or not.
 
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Eden:
http://www.tribalelegance.net/Afghani Burqa.gif

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0385510926.01.PE39.Mother-Angelica-The-Remarkable-Story-of-a-Nun-Her-Nerve-and-a-Network-of-Miracles.SCLZZZZZZZ.jpg

Are the nun’s habit and the burqa/hijab really as similar to eachother as some posters make them out to be?
one covers the face the other one doesn’t so thus “bag ladies” would still be aplicable to the shape and appearance of the clothing. You need to make up your mind, mocking nuns and Muslim women clothes, or mock neither.
 
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Eden:
Then you agree that a woman being required to cover her face is an abuse against women and should not be excused? Perhaps there are other faiths in which the beliefs could be used to justify requiring that a woman cover her face, such as in the Afghanistan of Taliban times. Do you know of any others? I don’t.

Also, I believe the first garment is similar to what the woman wanted to wear in her driver’s license photo. Surely, you agree that is an unreasonable request on the woman’s part?
I don’t think it is abusive to cover one’s face. If a women is made to cover her face so be it if it is the culture or the habit of the area. In some cultures women are forced to be shirtless and breasts exposed completely, is that abusive? (culturally to them that is only proper, so no I would say) A culture is a culture and few areas still retain their native ways, which is a shame. Yes what is taboo to us my look wrong or what ever, but that is how they are used to living, to change it would offset the entire way of life of the people and could be catostropic.

As for the picture, I still think if she wanted too so badly to continue her way of life in the traditional way that she grew up to, then she shouldn’t be forced to override that way of life for the will of the government, some compromise should be made.
 
Eden said:
%between% http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/15/Sultaana1.jpg She was alread a convert to Islam when she allowed this mug shot to be taken of her when she was arrested on charges of abusing a foster child.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2a/Freeman_DL.jpg

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultaana_Freeman

I wouldn’t want to be wearing a cross in a mug shot either, because biased people will turn that into, look how this group of people are, going to jail for blah blah and wearing a cross for shame, CHristians allow blady blah oh no.

Or maybe she wasn’t so strongly into the faith at the time of the mug shot? (she didn’t even seem to be wearing traditional Muslim clothes in general)
 
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Myangel:
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BryPGuy89:
So your telling me that a law requiring photo identification is not justifiable? Its simple, if you WISH to cover yourself, thats fine its their choice, but respect the laws and dont have a hissy fit when you cant drive or have a bank account due to not being able to identify yourself. Why is it that women were not allowed to drive in Afgan? Do Afgans require photo ID?

I live in Australia and the public school I went to does not even celebrate Easter or Christmas anymore due to most of the students being muslims, and crosses HAVE been taken down. What about the minority of christians who cant afford catholic schools and attend this public school, why do they have to miss out on christian celebrations in school? Especially when even our catholic schools, my nieces in particular DO ACCEPT muslim students explain this logic to me?
My basic point is that we complain about laws that restrict our religion in other countries, but we don’t like to look at it as a way to lighten tentions and make exceptions, as Christians we should be the first to start friendly and loving actions between the two.

In the US, we still have Christian majority in our schools and for decades that has already happened and been inforced. So what if the school can’t celebrate a holiday, you still can and only so restricted in how you can do that at school right? That is how it is here. We still have our churches celebrating them and at our homes. I look at it like this if a KKK group at my school wanted to celebrate something that is associated with the Arian Church, I know that they can’t, but it also applie to Christians and Muslims, and Hindus, so the good and bad both are restricted to prevent too much of either.
 
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inJESUS:
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Myangel:
maybe it is this : allow muslims to change things in your country; but if you go to their countries, shut up and live according to them. They are minority over there now and this is happening, just think what would happen when they increase?
What is with this we, even, fair stuff, haven’t you ever heard life isn’t fair? So what if we don’t get to change things there, we have an oppertunity to here. As CHRISTIANS we are suppose to turn the cheek and be first to do things that are right and start the peaceful things and everything else.
 
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inJESUS:
a bunch of muslims raped a nun some time ago…does it have to do with dress or immoral people?
Same thing in S. America, Asia, in Europe, and somewhere in America, it happens, it is evil individuals, not a faith or dress code, completely irrelevent to this thred.
 
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BryPGuy89:
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Booklover:
You have no problem mocking or what ever something of Islam, even though it is very similar to parts of Christianity, like the clothing, call them bag ladies when addressing Islam, but get defensive when someone brings up the fact that Christianity did/still does wear clothing simliar, then say you didn’t mock the nuns, who look very similar to the ones of Islam you did.
The CCC and John Paul II taught that the Islamic faith is a faith of God, same as our God, that we need to find common ground and build upon that and try for dialogue between the two. I have never heard that Islam wants to destroy Christianity, in fact I have seen it and heard that the Qur’an makes exceptions for the destroy infedel thing for Jews and Christians, because they are taught that we three follow the same God.
How many times have intolerant statements from the Quran been posted here stating the reverse of what you’re saying?

What is it going to take to make you wake up from your lovely PC dream, a Muslim advancing towards you brandishing a scimitar & yelling “ALLAHU AKBAR”?

Where did John Paul II say that islam is a religion of GOD? In the catechism it states:

The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day"

That does not state that Islam is from God! It states that they PROFESS to hold the faith of Abraham, but that does not mean that they do. Is “Allah” the God of Abraham or a false god created by Mohammed? Do you believe that the Quran is the word of God?
I think you’re making more of his statement than what he meant to convey.
Jesus lost control of his anger once, everyother time he kindly and respectfully
shared the truth with people not challenging and threatening them. He talked even to the sinners and what not, with love and peace, not you appose my faith so I hate your teachings and you’re going to Hell if you don’t convert now stuff. Jesus never came out and said such things instead he turned the other cheek and spoke of the truth and allowed people to hear it and come by faith to their decisions. A peaceful friendly faith who is open to others and respectful gains much more respectability then one that condemns and lashes out at those who have different teachings. I am starting to fail in my own faith in the Church just listening to the terrible things I’ve heard on this forum about Islam in particular. If this is how the followers of the Church are turning out to be then I don’t know, it is offsetting and disappointing to hear such things. I guess if/when I continue with my dreams of becoming clergy I can be able to do more to help the CHurch wiht getting it’s own views out there for the followers to follow. It becomes more and more evident that few here truly know what is taugt by the Church and it’s standings on certain things.

Jesus still called a spade, a spade and he still used the word “hypocrites” when necessary! Do you honestly believe that Jesus would condone false teachings?

Vickie
 
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