Confronting White Supremacy in El Paso: Naming the Sin

[billsherman]

A local bishop doesn’t black and white define this for the planet.

The Church relies on the principle of subsidiarity, by which issues are handled at the most local possible level. Since the wall is intended to run through his Diocese, he is exactly the person who gets to define this issue. If you disagree with that, you should check out his endnotes, which cite the proper moral authorities - including Popes. The Bishops of the Church have the authority to determine their areas competence.

I don’t think you understand how it works.

Then I respectfully ask you to explain it to me.

Of course the Catholic teaching opposes white supremacy. Does it support any kind of racial supremacy?

Of course not. And since the Bishop very nicely ties American anti-immigrant sentiment (including calls to build the wall), to white supremacy, the Church properly opposes the wall, contemporary anti-immigrant rhetoric, and general xenophobia.

 

[Woodyl57]

Look, he makes good points and I am not trying to change your mind or discourage people from champion the cause of poor immigrants from Latin America and Mexico.

 

[billsherman]

Look, he makes good points and I am not trying to change your mind or discourage people from champion the cause of poor immigrants from Latin America and Mexico.

I respect that. I appreciate your comments. Thanks!

 

[Woodyl57]

Your welcome. Sorry to say I don’t feel the reciprocation.

 

[upant]

Ummm…really? You can start by reading the Bishop’s letter that is linked in OP. If that isn’t good enough for you, you can look at the USCCB’s page on the matter here: http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/racism/

If even that isn’t good enough, you can look through the works of every Pope since Pius XI. They all condemn various forms of racism (of which white supremacy is one) over, and over, and over again.

White supremacy is a matter of faith and morals because the Bishops say it is. They get to define their area of competency, not the laity.

I have read most of it

you still haven’t shown where he defined the sin of white supremacy. what would one confess he did to the priest to be guilty of this? you are claiming white supremacy is a matter of faith and morals and until recently it wasn’t even a thing. racism yes, but not white-privilege. what does it mean for the average hard-working middle-class person? how does the everyday joe/joan commit it? I never knew a sin could be so limited that only one group of people could commit it.

he appears to limit racism to a very narrow definition. in his letter (#14) he is claiming racism is failing to oppose white privilege, how does that work? he doesn’t like trump; so is failing to oppose trump supporting white supremacy?

what about racism the world over, is it no longer a thing? this is a flaw in his letter. racism is about more than just one group of people.

the country is bigger than the border area. the concerns about the US immigration policy are greater than just race. he has an agenda and isn’t addressing the total picture or concerns of the people of the nation as a whole.

 

[Woodyl57]

what about racism the world over, is it no longer a thing? this is a flaw in his letter. racism is about more than just one group of people.

the country is bigger than the border area. the concerns about the US immigration policy are greater than just race. he has an agenda and isn’t addressing the total picture or concerns of the people of the nation as a whole.

This is what I am trying to say as well.

To avoid this sin I just oppose the wall? Does this apply only to Americans?

 

[billsherman]

I have read most of it

Do read the rest. It’s worth it.

you still haven’t shown where he defined the sin of white supremacy. what would one confess he did to the priest to be guilty of this?

Paragraph 14 seems pretty clear to me: “If we are honest, racism is really about advancing, shoring up, and failing to oppose a system of white privilege and advantage based on skin color. When this system begins to shape our public choices, structure our common life together and becomes a tool of class, this is rightly called institutionalized racism. Action to build this system of hate and inaction to oppose its dismantling are what we rightly call white supremacy.”

racism yes, but not white-privilege

White privilege and white supremacy aren’t the same thing. Though they are related. Racism, of which white supremacy is an example, is clearly a sin as the Bishop nicely describes in paragraph 14 (quoted above).

he is claiming racism is failing to oppose white privilege, how does that work?

It is broader than that.

so is failing to oppose trump supporting white supremacy?

No. But failing to oppose white supremacist policies that Trump pushes is.

what about racism the world over, is it no longer a thing? this is a flaw in his letter. racism is about more than just one group of people.

Nowhere in the letter does the Bishop claim racism is limited to white supremacy. Nowhere in the letter does he suggest that racism is not a sin elsewhere, or is somehow limited only to one group of people.

the concerns about the US immigration policy are greater than just race.

Of course they are. But US immigration is tightly linked to white supremacy, and has always been. The Bishop covers this well in his letter. Only when immigration policy is rooted in justice and dignity can it be morally acceptable. Immigration policy that is based on white supremacy - as the Bishop shows competently that our current policy is - is not rooted in justice and dignity, and is therefore immoral.

he has an agenda and isn’t addressing the total picture or concerns of the people of the nation as a whole.

Of course he has an agenda - he’s a Catholic Bishop.

And he is addressing the concerns of ALL people, American and immigrant, alike.

 

[Woodyl57]

Of course he has an agenda - he’s a Catholic Bishop.

I think he means he has a political agenda.

No. But failing to oppose white supremacist policies that Trump pushes is.

And we get back around to Trump’s white supremacy. Political agenda.

 

[Emeraldlady]

Emeraldlady:

I did not recognise the underlying racism in my attitudes until I was fully able to walk in anothers shoes.

I agree with everything you said but what does it have to do with racism? Seriously? There are immigrants and children and refugees, and people sold into sex trade, and on and on of every ethnicity across the planet. I find it very disturbing everyone associates all this with someone skin color.

Sorry, might not be what anyone in the modern society wants to hear but I don’t care what the race or nationality or religion and so on a poor and suffering person is when they need assistance.

There is always some kind of supremacist attitude behind all indifference to the plight of others. Always. The Bishop is addressing white supremacist attitudes in regard to Mexican people. My point is that it can be so fundamental in us, that we genuinely don’t recognise how it influences our attitudes towards things. It can manifest as a fear of ‘losing our jobs’ to foreigners, or in the dreadful rhetoric of Trump about Mexicans or outright desiring to massacre them such as the case in El Paso.

It takes courage to have the radical charity of Jesus, but that we are told is where grace flourishes. So many problems in any relationships are easily resolved by radical charity that don’t involve building walls and talking trash about foreigners.

 

[billsherman]

And we get back around to Trump’s white supremacy. Political agenda.

The Bishop clearly sees it - correctly - as a moral issue, because the political policy is based on white supremacy.

Any political policy based on an immoral concept, is an immoral policy. I’m not a theologian, but I’m pretty sure that is cover by Aquinas. All human laws have to be rooted in the natural law.

 

[Woodyl57]

It takes courage to have the radical charity of Jesus, but that we are told is where grace flourishes. So many problems in any relationships are easily resolved by radical charity that don’t involve building walls and talking trash about foreigners.

Very well said. It goes for all people though. All cultures, all ethnicities.

I can tell you this for sure. There are more people you probably have supremacist attitudes towards than you realize (and me too.) Don’t limit your thinking to skin color. People are people.

Peoples fears aren’t something you can just trivialize. You keep trivializing their fears you will get more division. Too many people don’t feel they matter. I am tired of being judged just like everyone else, or feeling judged. You can trivialize people by making them feel they have no right to feel like they feel. And I am not talking about any specific ethnicity. All people are more alike than we are different.

America is the most ethnically diverse country in the world. Love your neighbor, all of them.

 

[upant]

Do read the rest. It’s worth it.

I read enough to see the bias

White privilege and white supremacy aren’t the same thing. Though they are related. Racism, of which white supremacy is an example, is clearly a sin as the Bishop nicely describes in paragraph 14 (quoted above).

he limits racism in 14 to white privilege

this is where he is wrong. white privilege should be included but not singled out in a racist world

Paragraph 14 seems pretty clear to me: “If we are honest, racism is really about advancing, shoring up, and failing to oppose a system of white privilege and advantage based on skin color.

It is broader than that.

he doesn’t include any broader language in this letter.

No. But failing to oppose white supremacist policies that Trump pushes is.

again he doesn’t see the bigger picture of the non-border implication of the policies pushed and accuses the people of following the policies for white supremacy reasons. what about anti-drug, anti-crime reasons?

Nowhere in the letter does the Bishop claim racism is limited to white supremacy. Nowhere in the letter does he suggest that racism is not a sin elsewhere, or is somehow limited only to one group of people.

item 14 defines racism to white privilege

 

[Emeraldlady]

Emeraldlady:

It takes courage to have the radical charity of Jesus, but that we are told is where grace flourishes. So many problems in any relationships are easily resolved by radical charity that don’t involve building walls and talking trash about foreigners.

Very well said. It goes for all people though. All cultures, all ethnicities.

I can tell you this for sure. There are more people you probably have supremacist attitudes towards than you realize (and me too.) Don’t limit your thinking to skin color. People are people.

I dare say. That is where I give Pope Francis’ example and guidance big credit in helping me be purged of those flaws. He has a way of showing you through his eyes, compassionate view of others.

Peoples fears aren’t something you can just trivialize. You keep trivializing their fears you will get more division. Too many people don’t feel they matter. I am tired of being judged just like everyone else, or feeling judged. You can trivialize people by making them feel they have no right to feel like they feel. And I am not talking about any specific ethnicity. All people are more alike than we are different.

But then returning to Scripture, the sobering truth is that “Whoever is not with Me is against Me , and whoever does not gather with Me scatters” (Matt 12:30)

We just have to rise above fears of material loss to help others in need, otherwise we simply aren’t ‘gathering’ with Christ.

 

[Woodyl57]

Again, I 100% agree. 100%!

That is the opposite of trivializing them, they are hard to overcome and we need help to do it and not contempt, which I don’t think you are doing BTW.

And race is irrelevant. Minority’s have fears too that they need to overcome that we also should not trivialize.

I dare say most of our fears are pretty similar regardless of race. We gotta stop thinking we are just so different.

So let’s help each other. First thing is trying to understand each other. Each person is unique in some way. I know history is hard to overcome and can’t be ignored. But history is a big big place. And I genuinely wish I could live to see the day content of character truly was our guide.

Peace.

 

[melonhead]

And all this time I thought that while there are indeed racist people in this country who need to be called out on it, the wall was somehow rooted in protecting borders. Something that the catechism says political leaders have a duty to do.

 

[Lysander]

So now people are racist because their parent raised them in a stable environment. Stop bearing false witness against americans on political differences. Catholic faith allows for disagreement on the best way to do things. I dont’t understand how leaving a border open that allows the sex slave trade to exist, allows drug trade to exist, allows people from latin america to become a cheap under class for companies is morally just. Now to the macro claim that nations building walls in wrong, what about the micro level of people having walls on their houses or fences.

 

[Zach]

If someone is for the wall and against illegal immigration but supports legal immigration of all races is that person a white supremacist? If someone owns a business and hires H-1b visa workers of all races but is for the wall and against illegal immigration is that person a racist? If someone of any race waited in line to come to the US legally but is for the wall and against any jumping in line to sneak in illegally is that person white supremacist?

 

[twf]

Not just white supremacy, but Protestant supremacy. White Protestant Americans HATED and mocked and mistreated Irish and Italian Catholic immigrants not so long ago. That American Catholics today can jump on the Trump bandwagon knowing that history is pretty amazing to me.

 

[Zach]

My ancestors were Irish Catholic and Italian Catholic immigrants, but I choose not to dwell on the past and to forgive as my faith calls on me to do.

 

[melonhead]

If someone is for the wall and against illegal immigration but supports legal immigration of all races is that person a white supremacist?

Does that mean my olive-skinned wife whose parents came from South America is a white supremacist?