Conservative Cardinal [Burke] Who Clashed With Pope Francis Confirms He Has Been Ousted

[One_point]

According to some of the stories I’ve read, the Cardinal was publicly criticizing the Pope. There may be more to it than that and that is something we won’t know.

In this article, buzzfeed.com/lesterfeder/conservative-cardinal-who-clashed-with-pope-francis-confirms#4aet81s the following is found: ‘went on Catholic television in 2013 to rebut remarks Pope Francis made to an interviewer that the church had become “obsessed” with abortion and sexuality to the exclusion of other issues, saying, “We can never talk enough about that as long as in our society innocent and defenseless human life is being attacked in the most savage way,” Burke said.’ Abortion is wrong and may be the greatest evils of this age. It is important to talk about but it isn’t the only thing and for the most part, it seems like the Church is rapped up with abortion and sexuality. It’s my opinion that the Cardinal, “rebutting” the Pope is an embarrassment for us all.

If an employee of mine was publicly criticizing one of my policies, they would be given the choice to resign or be fired. Before anyone says that it isn’t an employer/employee relationship, that is understood. However, Pope Francis does have the power to change the assignment. That may be what was done here.

As far as any changes to established doctrine, they just won’t happen. Jesus stated that marrying a divorced person was adultery. That wasn’t Pope Jesus, or Saint Jesus, it was Jesus, The Messiah, the living God incarnate. It has been long established that same sex, sexual relations were and are a sin. Paul reiterated that in the New Testament.

Saint Paul warned about taking of the Eucharist unworthily which is a sin in itself. If someone is divorced and remarried or married to someone that has been divorced, they cannot receive the Eucharist without getting an annulment first. That will not change. If someone has same sex attractions and does not confess and repent, they cannot receive the Eucharist. Neither of these can change and they will not. The Church cannot counsel you to sin (unworthily receiving the Eucharist). There will be no change of doctrine or infallible pronouncement on these.

Our last Pope, Benedcit XVI, was very precise in everything he said. That may have seemed rigid to some but there was little chance of him being misunderstood. Pope Francis isn’t careful about what he says. Personally, I wish he was a lot more careful and better explained himself. However, he doesn’t but honestly, he hasn’t said anything to contradict Church doctrine. He has not said that sexually involved members of the same sex are not sinning and should receive the Eucharist. He has not said that long divorced people do not need an annulment before consuming the Eucharist. He will say neither of these things this year or next year or any year.

The main stream media and parts of the general public are making more of what he has said than he actually said. We’re Catholic and know better than the media and the general public.

The original story here started out talking about a supposed demotion of Cardinal Burke. Part of the history of both men makes it involve the synodal process. We should all pray for Cardinal Burke, the pope and frankly, all of our Bishops. May God’s Holy Spirit lead them in the right direction.

I’m sorry but if none of this will change, WHY is it up for discussion? When St. John Paul II called a similar synod, doctrine was reaffirmed and it was made clear that what was under consideration was not only pastoral but could NOT contradict doctrine. When Pope Francis throws wide open the doors on possibilities of pratices that say in action that the doctrine is not true and steadfastly refuses to resettle the faith in clear terms in the face of much confusion, even refusing to stop people from using his name to advance them, we have a problem. Catholics may burry our heads in the sand but the problem is now clear and in the open, it cannot be hidden any more.

 

[Brandall]

I’m sorry but if none of this will change, WHY is it up for discussion? When St. John Paul II called a similar synod, doctrine was reaffirmed and it was made clear that what was under consideration was not only pastoral but could NOT contradict doctrine. When Pope Francis throws wide open the doors on possibilities of pratices that say in action that the doctrine is not true and steadfastly refuses to resettle the faith in clear terms in the face of much confusion, even refusing to stop people from using his name to advance them, we have a problem. Catholics may burry our heads in the sand but the problem is now clear and in the open, it cannot be hidden any more.

What is up for discussion? Is it the pastoral needs of those with same sex attraction or a move to change doctrine? The pastoral needs of those that have been divorced and remarried or a change of doctrine?

If the group is encouraged to speak their mind, then saying that it would be nice if those in second marriages, without an annulment could take part in the Eucharist, isn’t wrong. That change will not happen but frankly, I wish there was a way that everyone could receive the Eucharist but also understand the reasons for the doctrine.

Methinks you and many others may be reading too much into the situation. I’m certain the Church will reaffirm long established doctrine. This is the Church established by Jesus Christ and though it may falter, it will not fail. The Church cannot and will not change long established doctrine.

 

[Deltadeliquent]

The problem is that this time, with Francis at the helm, our society has experienced the upheaval of same sex marriage being legalised.
No other pope has had to deal with that, so what he saints or doesn’t say is very important and needs to be very clear.

 

[Vasian]

The Vatican is bending away from scripture, dancing around its edges
Prepare for deep darkness to engulf it.

 

[Vasian]

The Vatican is bending away from scripture, dancing around its edges
Prepare for a deep darkness to engulf it.

 

[mlz]

I am extremely sad and concerned…I admire Cardinal Burke and his views…now is a time for deep prayer for the Church. I am a convert from the Lutheran(ELCA) Church and saw this gradual slide…Lord have mercy and let us all pray.

mlz

Again… I pray for the Church and those who faithfully defend the teaching of the
Church and ask the Holy Spirit to help us…Lord have mercy… Please dear Lord Jesus protect us from the enemy who wants to cause strive and disunity…bring unity in the Spirit to Your Church and peace and strength in this difficult time of battle with the evil one, AMEN.

mlz

 

[Vasian]

Pope Francis has sealed the fate with his going beyond in this way, and there will never be a Catholic-Orthodox Reconciliation.

In fact, there will be a great exodus from the Catholic Church into Orthodoxy.

 

[BillyHW]

Cardinal Burke seems like a passionate man who loves the Church. However, he has made some very confrontational statements towards Pope Francis. It seems as if he takes statements by our Holy Father in the worst possible way and uses them to garner support for himself. The best way to handle a disagreement is in private, not through the media mouthpiece. Perhaps the assignment in Malta will give him time to reflect and find a better way to communicate his concerns with his boss.

Is there anyone here who could badmouth their boss in public and get away with it?

I don’t know, does St. Paul lurk around the Catholic Answers Forums?

 

[Brandall]

I don’t know, does St. Paul lurk around the Catholic Answers Forums?

Are you speaking about the incident when Paul opposed Cephas to his face? You don’t see that as being different than calling out the Pope in the press?

 

[Jason_Firestone]

What is up for discussion? Is it the pastoral needs of those with same sex attraction or a move to change doctrine? The pastoral needs of those that have been divorced and remarried or a change of doctrine?

If the group is encouraged to speak their mind, then saying that it would be nice if those in second marriages, without an annulment could take part in the Eucharist, isn’t wrong. That change will not happen but frankly, I wish there was a way that everyone could receive the Eucharist but also understand the reasons for the doctrine.

Methinks you and many others may be reading too much into the situation. I’m certain the Church will reaffirm long established doctrine. This is the Church established by Jesus Christ and though it may falter, it will not fail. The Church cannot and will not change long established doctrine.

Our Dear Lord gave Judas communion.
Apparently there are some who think they are better than He.

 

[nuntym]

+JMJ+

Our Dear Lord gave Judas communion.
Apparently there are some who think they are better than He.

You do realize Satan entered Judas after he received Holy Communion unworthily, right? (John 13:27)

 

[JimmyG88]

I love this forum! If this Cardinal had been ousted because of his support for liberalism in the church the post would be heralding his move as a magnificent gesture by the Pope. As it is he is being lauded for his espousal of values that are clearly at odds with those of the current Supreme Pontiff

 

[Sophie_Lawrence]

I read the whole thread and still didn’t get what the demotion was until I read this in the link above:Yes, I guess that in most people’s eyes that that would indeed count as a demotion.

Well, no. When Cardinal Law was transferred from being archbishop of Boston to being the rector of Santa Maria Maggiore in Rome, there were many complaints that he’d been given a lofty position, and not a demotion.

 

[Sophie_Lawrence]

Which goes to the point - because the transfer is so close to Card. Burke’s remarks, it is often assumed that he was moved due to the remarks. But, the reasons could be much different. It’s quite possible (in fact, quite probable, considering the pace of the Church at times) that the transfer had been in the works for some time, and that it has absolutely nothing to do with the synod. Seriously. It may just be that His Holiness Pope Francis saw a need in the Order of Malta, and figured that Cardinal Burke was the most qualified person for the job.

I think of it this way - last year, my job assignment changed multiple times during the school year. My official job title did not change, but I was moved several times not for anything that I had done, but due to the needs of the students and staffing changes. At the same time, the needs of the Church, in and of themselves, are the most probable reason for Card. Burke’s reassignment.

I agree with your post. We don’t know when and why or how the decision came about.

Jumping to conclusions isn’t really a good idea.

 

[Sophie_Lawrence]

orderofmalta.int/medical-and-humanitarian-activities/55/the-mission-to-help-the-sick-and-the-needy/?lang=en

Hope the above link works. The Order of Malta is very noble and esteemed Order in the Church.

 

[PRmerger]

Our Dear Lord gave Judas communion.
Apparently there are some who think they are better than He.

Firstly, we don’t know if Judas had repented of his wicked desire prior to receiving communion.

Secondly, think about what you are advocating. To be consistent, you are saying that:

If Judas can receive, with the paradigm you are espousing, a good, holy Seventh Day Adventist ought to be able to receive, right?

If Judas can receive, with the paradigm you are espousing, the unrepentant pornographer ought to be able to receive, right?

If Judas can receive, with the paradigm you are espousing, the unrepentant guy who tortures animals ought to be able to receive, right?

In fact, when we apply the principle you are espousing, even a Satanist who comes forward for communion would have the right to receive, yes?

 

[unafraid]

Yet Cardinal Burke was ousted for expressing his thoughts which didn’t conform to Cardinal Kasper. That doesn’t sound like allowing for a “gammit of perspectives without restraint” to me. It sounds like only one opinion is being allowed, the opinion of Cardinal Kasper. The direction this seems to be going makes me think of Ezekiel 13 and Matthew 10 and 24.

Cardinal Burke’s presumed demotion would hardly be based exclusively on his open rejection of Cardinal Kasper’s views. I have seen two interviews with Cardinal Burke on EWTN’s “World Over” news program. In each there existed strong tones of disdain for the Holy Father and his positions. I came away with the impression that he had not fully come to terms with the reality of Pope Benedict’s resignation and Pope Francis’ election, or if he had, he was not accepting of these facts.

If the Holy Father was inclined to demote Cardinals soley based on their nonconforming perspectives relative to Cardinal Kasper’s views it would be like an avalanche of red. Pope Francis deems this move to be in the best interest of the church and we must trust his motives and reasons.

 

[boar2roar]

Cardinal Burke’s presumed demotion would hardly be based exclusively on his open rejection of Cardinal Kasper’s views. I have seen two interviews with Cardinal Burke on EWTN’s “World Over” news program. In each there existed strong tones of disdain for the Holy Father and his positions. I came away with the impression that he had not fully come to terms with the reality of Pope Benedict’s resignation and Pope Francis’ election, or if he had, he was not accepting of these facts.

If the Holy Father was inclined to demote Cardinals soley based on their nonconforming perspectives relative to Cardinal Kasper’s views it would be like an avalanche of red. Pope Francis deems this move to be in the best interest of the church and we must trust his motives and reasons.

Well Kasper is the popes mouthpiece so yeah I do think its very reasonable that the pope wanted to get rid of his biggest western critic among the cardinals. Its just another purge of traditionalist catholics and a strong message of how he punishes people with certain views and how he rewards bishops like Kasper, Wuerl, Marx.

Btw whats going on with the german bishops? Have they been replaced by Huffington post editors? Some of the stuff that Marx has been saying would make Episcopal bishops uncomfortable.

 

[commenter]

Personnel matters are sensitive. Almost everything you read is by people, including “experts”, who don’t know most of the relevant facts, and usually have an agenda to grind.
Anyone who really knows the facts, and is trustworthy to the interests of the Church, is confidential.

I have agreed with what I know of Cardinal Burke’s views, only in that they seemed in agreement with the Magisterium. I assume Pope Francis has more information at his hands than me or anyone else on CAF, to support that same Magisterium.

A year or two out of an extremely busy Curia office may allow an extremely busy churchman time to do other things - writing, reflection, prayer, communicating his ideas in other ways, and learning some new things. He’s probably been working 70 or more hours a week for decades. Think of it as a sabbatical for a man who has done much good for the Church, and likely will do more. I half suspect there are a couple dozen officials in the Vatican who envy him.

 

[Brendan]

I love this forum! If this Cardinal had been ousted because of his support for liberalism in the church the post would be heralding his move as a magnificent gesture by the Pope. As it is he is being lauded for his** espousal of values that are clearly at odds with those of the current Supreme Pontiff**

I haven’t seen that. Pope Francis himself said that he was a faithful son of the Church.

Pope Francis would, of course, realize that he, nor anyone else, cannot change what the Church has infallibly declared.

What +Burke has been doing is simply reminding everyone of what the Church has actually declared infallibly, and as such is not open for change.

What ‘value’ do you consider them to be at odds on?