Conservative faction attempt to deflect sex abuse scandal

[kyrie03]

The Church, and the institution of religion itself, is to blame, not “homosexuality”

This behavior was severly punished by the hierarchy in earlier times. More recently, starting in the mid 1900s, there was an effort to infiltrate the Catholic Church. Read “The Homosexualization of the Church” by Father Enrique Rueda or “The Rite of Sodomy:Homosexuality and the Roman Catholic Church” by Randy Engels. https://ia800801.us.archive.org/14/...teEngel/The Rite Of Sodomy Complete Engel.pdf
Both are meticulously documented.

Read what the seminarians in Honduras say…they claim it’s a homosexual thing.

Children are NOT the primary targets.

McCarrick’s proclivities only came to light when abuse of a minor threatened to be made public. “James”, the first child he baptized and whose family was friends w McCarrick was groomed from the age 11 and taken advantage of later. If you took the time to read through the multiple accusations against McCarrik, you’d realize he mostly chose post-pubescent males to be his “nephews”.

Read the John Jay report. Yes, others engage in immoral and damaging behaviors. But the vast majority of abuse is homosexual in nature.

 

[LateCatholic]

Read the John Jay report. Yes, others engage in immoral and damaging behaviors. But the vast majority of abuse is homosexual in nature.

Children are NOT the primary targets.

You again fail to comprehend the severity of these events. The conservative faction of the Church is attempting to deflect blame by saying it is a homosexual problem.

When a 60 year old man rapes a 12 year old girl, it is not a “heterosexual problem”.
Conversely, when a 60 year old man rapes a 12 year old boy, is is NOT a “homosexual problem”.

If you want to say that there is a homosexual problem is the priesthood, you are more than welcome too. I’m sure you can bring up tons of statistics supporting your claim. Clearly, the amount of adult sex is the priesthood must dwarf these sexual abuse claims.

But we are talking about CRIMINAL acts here. Performing homosexual acts in the priesthood may be contrary to Catholic teaching, but it is NOT A CRIME. We are talking about criminal acts here. To imply this is a homosexual issue is to claim that the Church is not complicit and is a victim. The Church IS TO BLAME. Not gays, not “homosexuality”. Catholic leaders inability or lack of desire to address the problem is what caused this to spiral out of control.

 

[kyrie03]

Whoa, I think you misunderstood. Let me clarify…the crisis we are seeing in the Church today is primarily/mostly/most of the cases are… deviant behavior.

It is clear to me now that you are focusing on criminal behavior. Not to make any excuses, but the sort of criminal behavior you are illustrating takes place in ALL sectors of society. Predators tend to gravitate towards places where they would have the most access to children…whether it’s in schools, all ministries, etc… The Catholic Church in the US has instituted a safe environment program as adopted by the Dallas Charter that, while not completely eradicating, has minimized the opportunities and the incidents of what you are talking about from taking place.

I’ve been through the Safe Environment certification…have you?

 

[AlNg]

Performing homosexual acts in the priesthood may be contrary to Catholic teaching, but it is NOT A CRIME.

It is a crime in some cases. According to the news two priests were arrested in Miami recently and are facing criminal charges.

'There Are No Tints On The Window': Miami Beach Police After Two Priests Caught Performing Sex Act In Car

Two Chicago-area priests were charged Monday with Lewd and Lascivious behavior and Indecent Exposure after being caught performing a sexual act inside a car parked on a Miami Beach street.

miami.cbslocal.com

 

[fin]

Theyncertainly should, that is the problem who priests who commit sexual acts whether consensual or abusive. Some of them get away with it. That is why they need to be reported. Wonder how Team Francis is doing?

 

[MikeInVA]

500 times, a young girl was either raped or sexually assaulted by a male priest.
90 times a child under the age of 11 was raped or sexually assaulted by a male priest.

Despite accusations of such, I have not seen one article that says that the 19% aren’t important.

 

[Thorolfr]

If 81% of the victims had been girls being abused by male predators, it would be an obviously heterosexual problem.

But no one would claim that it would be a problem in the sense that there is something problematic about a priest being a heterosexual. What I’m hearing from a lot of people who post is that being a homosexual is a problem, not just the abuse that took place.

 

[Thorolfr]

LateCatholic:

Performing homosexual acts in the priesthood may be contrary to Catholic teaching, but it is NOT A CRIME.

It is a crime in some cases. According to the news two priests were arrested in Miami recently and are facing criminal charges.
‘There Are No Tints On The Window’: Miami Beach Police After Two Priests Caught Performing Sex Act In Car – CBS Miami

They weren’t arrested for having gay sex but for having sex in public. A straight couple having sex in a parked car on a Miami Beach street could also be arrested for Lewd and Lascivious behavior and Indecent Exposure. It would be illegal to arrest consenting adults having sex in private, and that includes gay sex. The Supreme Court struck down sodomy laws in 2003 in Lawrence v. Texas as long as the sex is consensual between adults and is in private.

 

[AlNg]

What I’m hearing from a lot of people who post is that being a homosexual is a problem

I would say it is a problem for two homosexual priests to have oral sex in full view of children. And it is not something that happened 70 years ago.

 

[Thorolfr]

Thorolfr:

What I’m hearing from a lot of people who post is that being a homosexual is a problem

I would say it is a problem for two homosexual priests to have oral sex in full view of children. And it is not something that happened 70 years ago.

And it would also be a problem if a priest was having oral sex with a female parish secretary in full view of children. No one would dispute that having sex in front of children is a problem whether it’s homosexual sex or heterosexual sex.

 

[AlNg]

And it would also be a problem if a priest was having oral sex with a female parish secretary in full view of children.

When did that happen? I’m talking about something that happened recently in the real world, between two homosexual priests. You are talking hypotheticals of something that might happen sometime in the future, say 200 years from now?
That is the big difference here. I am talking about real events reported in so many news outlets. You are making up fairy tales.

 

[Thorolfr]

Thorolfr:

And it would also be a problem if a priest was having oral sex with a female parish secretary in full view of children.

When did that happen? I’m talking about something that happened recently in the real world, between two homosexual priests. You are talking hypotheticals of something that might happen sometime in the future, say 200 years from now?
That is the big difference here. I am talking about real events reported in so many news outlets. You are making up fairy tales.

Like I said, the problem in the example you gave is that sex is being performed in front of children. And from a Catholic perspective, I’m sure that it’s also a problem for priests to be having sex period. But the sexual orientation of the people having the sex in your example is irrelevant since it’s equally bad for two men or a man and a woman to have sex in front of children.

 

[AlNg]

And it would also be a problem if a priest was having oral sex with a female parish secretary in full view of children.

When did that happen? Or is it just a fairy tale? Something you made up. You are living in a world of fairy tales. I am living in the real world where this happened between two homosexual priests. That is the difference.

 

[Thorolfr]

When did that happen? Or is it just a fairy tale? Something you made up. You are living in a world of fairy tales. I am living in the real world where this happened between two homosexual priests. That is the difference.

Even in the real world, it doesn’t do much good to just say some event took place. It’s also important to decide what the real significance of that event was.

So, the real significance of the event you described is that two people had sex in front of children and I think that most people would agree that it’s wrong for anyone at all to have sex in front of children. If you told me that you had read that both priests had red hair, we could easily dismiss the idea that the hair color of the two priests is of any importance at all since red hair doesn’t make anyone more likely to have sex in front of children.

 

[LateCatholic]

81% is still 81%. There is no reason to deny the obvious. If 81% of the victims had been girls being abused by male predators, it would be an obviously heterosexual problem. But it is just the opposite.

This is flat out idiotic. 95% of the sicko priests are white. Is it a Caucasian problem???
Utter stupidity to even see people argue this.

If all seminaries had followed the 2005 guidelines restricting the admission of those with deep seated homosexual inclinations, that 81% figure at least would have been avoided.

You can discuss homosexuality as a problem in the priesthood ALL YOU WANT. But it is NOT the cause or the primary driver of sex abuse by priests. This driver is that Catholic leaders were unwilling to address the problem when it happened, and even promoted it by hiding the perps and attacking the victims. Stop trying to defend these people.

 

[LateCatholic]

Despite accusations of such, I have not seen one article that says that the 19% aren’t important.

Then why is it a “homosexual” problem ???

What if 80% of the cases involved oral sex? Does the Catholic Church have an “oral sex” problem?

I don’t want to be insulting, but your point is moronic. I understand it is painful to deal with this. But don’t try to assuage your guilt by saying its the gay’s fault. Church leadership is perverted. There are sick priests. Stop defending them. The leaders of the Church that covered this up aren’t gay, are they?

 

[MikeInVA]

Then why is it a “homosexual” problem ???

I don’t think anyone has said that there aren’t more issues in this crisis. What is being said is that this is not solely a paedophilia issue. You have created a strawman argument to advance your opinion.

 

[Bon_Croix]

I still am not certain there is a crisis.

People throw out links to articles on this website like they throw out beads at Mardi Gras.

It’s up to law enforcement to apprehend sex abusers. Yet, law enforcement has corrupt factions who think they have powers which to ordinary people are illegitimate. They believe in their corrupt “tests”.

Settlement of a claim does not prove guilt.

The church has its own criminal justice system and it is not subject to public proceedings; and I doubt they use corrupt “tests”. So, very little is known about Pope Francis’s criminality in all this.

What you are hearing and reading in the news (hello news junkies) are snapshots of information and are likely twisted to “fit an agenda”.

Society is corrupt.

 

[Annie]

You can discuss homosexuality as a problem in the priesthood ALL YOU WANT. But it is NOT the cause or the primary driver of sex abuse by priests. This driver is that Catholic leaders were unwilling to address the problem when it happened, and even promoted it by hiding the perps and attacking the victims. Stop trying to defend these people.

What does it mean that the “driver” of the abuse was the unwillingness of Church leaders to properly address the problem?

I would say that the “driver” of sexual abuse would be the perpetrators giving in to their own evil desires.

Sure, the spread of the abuse was due to the hierarchy’s ignoring Church rules about this sort of thing and listening instead to the APA, but you are putting the cart before the horse!

The abusers were all people with incredibly perverted ideas of sex. It is perverted to think that subversively grooming a vulnerable person to please one’s twisted desire for inappropriate sex (or for power, which many attribute this to) is … what? All right to do? A good thing?

The problem, as I see it, is that, yes, an infiltration occurred. And it occurred through connections, so it ended up being very homosexual.

To say the Mafia of old was an Italian thing was not to say all Italians were Mafioso. To say that 80% of the abuse is homosexual in nature is not to say that all homosexuals are abusers.

However, the truth of the situation must be acknowledged. Homosexuals are not suitable for the priesthood for unrelated reasons. And yet we now find that a significant number of homosexual priests have abused vulnerable people, and were engaging in horrific acts among themselves, and even casting out orthodox seminarians!

It’s a tangled mess, to be sure, but one with blame to be placed on the evil perpetrators, not on the possibly blindsided and misled supervisors.

 

[LateCatholic]

What does it mean that the “driver” of the abuse was the unwillingness of Church leaders to properly address the problem?

Because once these sick individuals realized that they could sexually abuse children without repercussions, the priesthood became a haven for perverts. I don’t care if none of them were gay, or all of them were gay.

Homosexuals are not suitable for the priesthood for unrelated reasons.

That is NOT what is being said by these people. They are saying the sexual abuse of children by priests is a homosexual problem.

Why are conservative Catholics bringing up the issue of homosexuality in the context of priests raping children? There were 500 sexual attacks by male priests on female children in the 6 Pennsylvania dioceses in the 30 years studied. That’s FIVE HUNDRED. Is there not then a heterosexual problem in the priesthood? So 2500 attacks in 30 years meets the criteria for a “homosexual” problem? But 500 in 30 years does not meet the criteria for it beings a “heterosexual” problem? Is raping a 12 year old girl ‘not as bad’ as raping a 16 year old boy? Should the priest that raped that family of girls (5 sisters) be treated differently than the priest that raped a group of 16 yr old boys? Is the heterosexual crime “less” of an offense? then why even bring it up??? Why even imply such a disgusting concept. Yet that is what these people are doing.