Conservative faction attempt to deflect sex abuse scandal

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I’ll try to be as gentle as possible here. There’s been a lot of opinions in the conservative media and especially in homilies recently on how the problem with the sex abuse scandal is all about the “homosexual agenda”. Using the recent Pennsylvania report, the point being made goes something like this:

81% of the 1000 incident victims were males that had either begun or had reached puberty. In other words, the victims were mostly young, teenage boys being attacked by older males. Only 3% were against actual children (age 10 or younger) and only 16% were against females.

Therefore, the problem really is the homosexuals and their agenda.

This line of reasoning is so disgusting and repulsive that I have to speak up. Consider:

It is estimated that the actual number of abuse claims is 3x that reported. That means, of the ~3000 rapes/assaults committed by Pennsylvania priests:

500 times, a young girl was either raped or sexually assaulted by a male priest.
90 times a child under the age of 11 was raped or sexually assaulted by a male priest.
and yes, 2500 times a pre-teen or teenage boy was raped or sexually assaulted by a male priest.

How is this a “homosexual” problem? Certainly the 81% statistic is noteworthy, but it is estimated that 35%-50% of priests ARE homosexual anyway. Further, male priests are always around other males. Clearly, for male priests, opportunities to abuse girls are far less common than those to abuse a male. It seems to me similar to the well-known statistic that most shark attacks occur close to shore. Well, most people swim close to shore. It doesn’t mean anything. Pointing to the 81% statistic as significant seems disingenuous and attempt at deflection.

This is not about any “gay agenda”. Homosexuality is not the problem here.
It’s about power and cover-up. It’s about the male-dominant hierarchy refusing to address the problem and hiding it. I don’t care if the child victims were male or female. And I don’t think it’s any less disgusting that most of the victims were teens instead of “children”. Stop deflecting. Stop minimizing. Address this scandal head on so that it never happens again.
Stop using it as an excuse to attack those trying to reform the Church.

Personally, I do not care about changing the Church’s position of homosexuality. I support gay rights, but on a secular level. If the Church wants to teach against homosexuality - fine.
But to minimize the depravity of what has happened, and been covered up, by the priesthood simply because most of the abuse was ‘supposedly’ committed by gay men is the ultimate in cowardice and further hurts the victims of this scandal. Conservatives pushing this line of reasoning should be ashamed.
 
Conservative faction attempt to deflect sex abuse scandal

Liberal faction attempt to deflect homosexual involvement
 
Your line of reasoning is incorrect!!

You are assuming that all allegation are true. I think that is a false assumption.

Are you out to harm the church with your statements?
 
Liberal faction attempt to deflect homosexual involvement
The point I am making, which you don’t address, is that there were still 500 instances of a male priest raping or assaulting a young female. There were nearly 100 instances of a male priest raping or assaulting a child under the age of 10 (prepubescent).
I realize 5 times as many rapes and assaults occurred against 11-17 year old boys. But first, that is not statistically significant given the high percentage of gay priests (perhaps 50%) AND their proximity to male victims. And even if you do want to say homosexuality is part of the problem, how does consensual male-male sexual relations fit into this? Is heterosexuality part of the problem? 500 times girls were attacked by male priests.

Saying homosexuals are the problem seems an attempt to advance a conservative agenda, not resolve the issue. These conservative priests pushing that line of thought are making ti worse for all of us.
 
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How is this a “homosexual” problem? Certainly the 81% statistic is noteworthy, but it is estimated that 35%-50% of priests ARE homosexual anyway.
Considering that the total US population is between 2-5% homosexual, I would think the incredible over representation of homosexuality in Church leadership may point to a problem.
 
Pointing to a male dominated hierchy is a deflection too. In reality, everyone is probably a little bit right.
 
Considering that the total US population is between 2-5% homosexual, I would think the incredible over representation of homosexuality in Church leadership may point to a problem.
Not my statistic:


“So how many gay priests actually exist? While there’s a glut of homoerotic writings from priests going back to the Middle Ages, obtaining an accurate count is tough. But most surveys (which, due to the sensitivity of the subject, admiittedly suffer from limited samples and other design issues) find between 15 percent and 50 percent of U.S. priests are gay, which is much greater than the 3.8 percent of people who identify as LGBTQ in the general population.”
 
“So how many gay priests actually exist? While there’s a glut of homoerotic writings from priests going back to the Middle Ages, obtaining an accurate count is tough. But most surveys (which, due to the sensitivity of the subject, admiittedly suffer from limited samples and other design issues) find between 15 percent and 50 percent of U.S. priests are gay, which is much greater than the 3.8 percent of people who identify as LGBTQ in the general population.”
If true, the Catholic priest population could be gayer than a San Francisco Gay Pride march. That would be a problem…
 
Sexually abusing anyone under the age of about 16 is generally illegal in USA and considered sexual abuse of a minor. The law doesn’t somehow give less penalty if the kid is 13 rather than 8.

Also, in cases where the abuser is in authority over the young person, such as with a priest and an altar boy, the criminal codes in USA tend to criminalize the act even at ages 16 and 17.

The distinctions you’re trying to draw might fit nicely with whatever agenda you’re pushing, but the law doesn’t care.
 
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Considering that the total US population is between 2-5% homosexual, I would think the incredible over representation of homosexuality in Church leadership may point to a problem.
Yes, even if you take the inflated figure of 50% of the clergy being homosexual it is still statistically significant factor given that over 80% of the abuse was homosexual in nature.

‘Statistically significant’ isn’t a subjective throw away phrase. It has a clear definition within the discipline of statistics.

If 50% of one group are producing over 80% of abuse and the other 50% are producing under 20% then this is statistically significant. It is absolutely and clearly statistically significant without a shadow of a doubt. Again this is even accepting the inflated 50% homosexual figure.

It is not cowardice to be accurate. It should be encouraged and it looks bad for aspects of the church who won’t come to terms with clear and unambiguous reality.
 
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Homosexuality is not the problem here.
It’s about power and cover-up. It’s about the male-dominant hierarchy refusing to address the problem and hiding it.
Yes, abuse of power and coverup are the real problems, shame and sin.

Homosexuality is another issue. Why a disproportionate percentage in the priesthood? Not that it is necessarily a problem but according to the church homosexuality is a disorder. So a is proportionate percentage of priests are “disordered”. That cant be a good thing.
 
This is not an either/or issue but a both/and issue.

There is most certainly an issue of the abuse of power and influence. But there is an additional issue of men who practice acts that the Church holds as deviant. In this case both issues are overlapping.

Both issues are signs of moral illness and deflecting either is a problem. I was thinking about Paul’s letter to the Galatians where he chastises some for insisting that believers are bound by the law (circumcision, dietary laws, et cetera), but then often lived like gentiles themselves. Both issues go much deeper that clercialism or active homosexuality. Instead they point to issues with those who subvert the gospel for there own ends. It is not just a question of criminal acts, but conduct at odds with a faith they profess.

In short, both those who down play this as either a homosexual issue or an abuse of power are wrong. The issues are all interrelated, and deflecting either reality just further harms the body of Christ.
 
St Peter Damien, 11th century Doctor of the Church in ( Liber Gomorrhianus ), would agree that all the issues are interrelated.
“Without fail, it brings death to the body and destruction to the soul. It pollutes the flesh, extinguishes the light of the mind, expels the Holy Spirit from the temple of the human heart, and gives entrance to the devil, the stimulator of lust. It leads to error, totally removes truth from the deluded mind … It opens up hell and closes the gates of paradise … It is this vice that violates temperance, slays modesty, strangles chastity, and slaughters virginity … It defiles all things, sullies all things, pollutes all things …

“This vice excludes a man from the assembled choir of the Church … it separates the soul from God to associate it with demons…. Unmindful of God, he also forgets his own identity. This disease erodes the foundation of faith, saps the vitality of hope, dissolves the bond of love. It makes way with justice, demolishes fortitude, removes temperance, and blunts the edge of prudence.
 
both those who down play this as either a homosexual issue or an abuse of power are wrong. The issues are all interrelated, and deflecting either reality just further harms the body of Christ.
So the rape of an 11 year old boy by a 50 year old priest covered up by a bishop is a “homosexual” problem? Whereas the rape of a 16 year old girl by the same priest and covered up by the same bishop is not a “heterosexual” problem?

The Church, and the institution of religion itself, is to blame, not “homosexuality”. If you think two adults in the priesthood having consensual homosexual sex is also a problem, you are more than welcome to raise that issue. That is your prerogative.

But this sex abuse scandal is about the rape and abuse of CHILDREN, by adults entrusted with their care, enabled and hidden by Catholic leaders that were either afraid to do the right thing or just didn’t care. You disgrace and shame yourselves, and tarnish the victims and minimize their suffering, by even implying such garbage. I am not homosexual, I have no liberal agenda. But I want to see these criminals punished, and the victims helped. Saying things like “See - the Church is fine - being gay is the problem” minimizes the depravity and sickness that is in the Church. Remember, in just part of Pennsylvania, there were 500 rapes/abuses of girls by priests. This isn’t a gay thing.
 
If 50% of one group are producing over 80% of abuse and the other 50% are producing under 20% then this is statistically significant. It is absolutely and clearly statistically significant without a shadow of a doubt. Again this is even accepting the inflated 50% homosexual figure.
You have not taken into account the proximity of victims. Your comment is flawed because it assumes a victim pool of 50/50 male/female. You have to take into account the opportunity to commit sexual assault. What percentage of time is a male priest able to attack a young male versus a young girl? If you take that into account, which you must, it is not statistically significant. If you put a pervert male priest teacher in an all-boy school, you are going to see more male victims.

I raised this earlier. It’s like the statistic about most shark attacks being in shallow water. Well, what would you expect? All the victims are swimming in shallow water.
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Homosexuality is another issue. Why a disproportionate percentage in the priesthood? Not that it is necessarily a problem but according to the church homosexuality is a disorder. So a is proportionate percentage of priests are “disordered”. That cant be a good thing.
I have no issue if you want to discuss homosexuality in the priesthood as a SEPARATE problem. Make your case in a separate thread.

But the reason perverts are raping and abusing children and being protected by our Church leaders is NOT “because of the homosexuals”.
 
You are assuming that all allegation are true. I think that is a false assumption.
Even if only 10% of the allegations are true (and more than 10% have admitted guilt), this is a scandal of epic proportions that must be answered by the Church.
 
81% is still 81%. There is no reason to deny the obvious. If 81% of the victims had been girls being abused by male predators, it would be an obviously heterosexual problem. But it is just the opposite.

And I have read numerous accounts recently by seminarians or former seminarians attesting to a homosexual clique that virtually ran certain seminaries, ensuring that those who were seen as too rigidly orthodox either left the seminary or were booted out. If all seminaries had followed the 2005 guidelines restricting the admission of those with deep seated homosexual inclinations, that 81% figure at least would have been avoided.
 
So the rape of an 11 year old boy by a 50 year old priest covered up by a bishop is a “homosexual” problem? Whereas the rape of a 16 year old girl by the same priest and covered up by the same bishop is not a “heterosexual” problem?
This is the example you want to run with?

How representative is this example to the reality of he abuse we are dealing with in the church?
 
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