Conservatives call on GOP leaders to step down

[seekerz]

I will re-phrase it for you.

It is impossible for a Catholic (or any Christian for that matter) to support a democrat in good conscience…unless the conscience is not properly formed.

My conscience is properly formed and I support Obama. Who made you judge of consciences? The Church has made it quite clear, that a person of good conscience can, after proper reflection, vote for a pro-choice candidate if the rationale for that choice is not to support the pro-choice cause but if there is other proportional reasoning.

Thank God that the Catholic Church is diverse and universal - not monolithic (or robotic). I’m relieved to have been edged out of conservatism but NOBODY is pushing me out of mother Church by impugning my faith or my conscience. It’s one of the few things from my former, less thoughtful way of life, which is definitely worth ‘conserving’.

Is this how believers behave when they pray and God doesn’t give them what they want? Perhaps it is worth reflecting on “why”.

 

[CMatt25]

You tell em Deacon! One Holy Catholic and Republican Church LOL

One thing I used to fear about the Catholic Church was the Catholic Church becoming just that. From my observations over the past decade and from reading the majority of CAF posters on this subforum it still appears to me it might be moving more and more in that direction. I’ll continue to hope not.

 

[ishii]

My conscience is properly formed and I support Obama. Who made you judge of consciences? The Church has made it quite clear, that a person of good conscience can, after proper reflection, vote for a pro-choice candidate if the rationale for that choice is not to support the pro-choice cause but if there is other proportional reasoning.

Thank God that the Catholic Church is diverse and universal - not monolithic (or robotic). I’m relieved to have been edged out of conservatism but NOBODY is pushing me out of mother Church by impugning my faith or my conscience. It’s one of the few things from my former, less thoughtful way of life, which is definitely worth ‘conserving’.

Is this how believers behave when they pray and God doesn’t give them what they want? Perhaps it is worth reflecting on “why”.

Seekerz, it is hard to imagine a properly informed conscience actually voting for a president who supports infanticide.

Ishii

 

[BroomWagon]

One thing I used to fear about the Catholic Church was the Catholic Church becoming just that. From my observations over the past decade and from reading the majority of CAF posters on this subforum it still appears to me it might be moving more and more in that direction. I’ll continue to hope not.

Great criticism of the Church from someone who has supported a party that wanted to take God out of it’s platform. That opinion is worth it’s weight in gold!

 

[CMatt25]

Obama is not worshiped by the vast majority of people who voted for him.
John

Correct. I worship Jesus Christ as I understand Him to be. Until I decided to vote for Obama over the Republican candidate, a couple of yrs ago I was giving consideration to voting 3rd party. I actually did for governor 2 yrs ago but now I regret it because 3% of us voted for various 3rd candidates and the Tea Party backed governor was elected by just 1%. I wasn’t going to make the same mistake this time.

 

[oldcelt]

Great criticism of the Church from someone who has supported a party that wanted to take God out of it’s platform. That opinion is worth it’s weight in gold!

Can you explain to me exactly what place God has in a secular, political platform? Unless it’s to pander to religion, which I think is insulting to religion, it is unnecessary.

I can’t prove it, but I suspect that God is not happy with either party using his name for political gain. That is assuming that God has any interest at all in the American political system.

John

John

 

[CMatt25]

Let’s see…socialist, communist, Kenyan, terrorist-coddling, secret Muslim, appeaser, apologizer…your correct…the left was terrible and the right talked about nothing but high ideas.

Exactly. Yet voters overcame all of that along with the Senate minority leader saying his party’s main focus was to keep Obama to one term and overcame unlimited outside suoer pac spending and in some cases enduring 7 hour long lines to exercise their right to vote.

 

[BroomWagon]

Solyndra, a $2 billion dollar stimulus that didn’t create any jobs.

Calling someone Gordon Gekko is handy, I think it applies to Obama.

And now, a health care system that could easily flounder and whose cost has been raised to be 3 times of what it was previously estimated at.

 

[oldcelt]

Yet voters overcame all of that along with the Senate minority leader saying his party’s main focus was to keep Obama to one term and overcame unlimited outside suoer pac spending and in some cases enduring 7 hour long lines to exercise their right to vote.

That is what is killing some people. They threw everything the could at the President, and he still won.

John

 

[BroomWagon]

Seekerz, it is hard to imagine a properly informed conscience actually voting for a president who supports infanticide.

Ishii

And a mentor, Bill Ayers, how did this guy get to be a professor.

Some think of trying to bring murder charges up on him for a police officer killed in San Francisco by a bomb.

Some media reports and political critics have suggested that Ayers, Dohrn or the Weathermen were connected to the fatal 1970 San Francisco Police Department Park Station bombing but neither Ayers nor anyone else has been charged or convicted of this crime.[19]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Ayers

 

[CMatt25]

My conscience is properly formed and I support Obama. Who made you judge of consciences? The Church has made it quite clear, that a person of good conscience can, after proper reflection, vote for a pro-choice candidate if the rationale for that choice is not to support the pro-choice cause but if there is other proportional reasoning.

Thank God that the Catholic Church is diverse and universal - not monolithic (or robotic). I’m relieved to have been edged out of conservatism but NOBODY is pushing me out of mother Church by impugning my faith or my conscience. It’s one of the few things from my former, less thoughtful way of life, which is definitely worth ‘conserving’.

Is this how believers behave when they pray and God doesn’t give them what they want? Perhaps it is worth reflecting on “why”.

Yes but Seekerz as you know there are plenty of Catholics here who say there are no other proportionate reasons. And then they quote Burke and others.

 

[seekerz]

That is what is killing some people. They threw everything the could at the President, and he still won.

John

There is such a thing as ‘overkill’ - apparently nothing was learned when the sky failed to fall on the previous inauguration day…

 

[seekerz]

Yes but Seekerz as you know there are plenty of Catholics here who say there are no other proportionate reasons. And then they quote Burke and others.

Your proportionate reason does NOT have to be mine. That’s why it’s a deliberation of conscience. All we have to do is read the Gospels and understand why Jesus didn’t come with a club beating people over the heads - even if He had the authority to do so and they (like us) probably deserved it…

 

[ishii]

That is what is killing some people. They threw everything the could at the President, and he still won.

John

The media didn’t - they protected him. And you never answered any of my questions, oldcelt on the bias of the media.

Ishii

 

[oldcelt]

And a mentor, Bill Ayers, how did this guy get to be a professor.

Some think of trying to bring murder charges up on him for a police officer killed in San Francisco by a bomb.

I met Jerry Rubin and Pat Paulsen in college…guess that makes me a member of the Chicago Seven or a stand-up comic/Presidential candidate.

Some think…guess they haven’t thought too hard or have any substantial evidence since Ayers is very much a free man.

John

 

[seekerz]

Seekerz, it is hard to imagine a properly informed conscience actually voting for a president who supports infanticide.

Ishii

You are not required to bother yourself imagining it. Where did the Church ever send us out to assess other people’s decisions of conscience?

 

[ishii]

Yes but Seekerz as you know there are plenty of Catholics here who say there are no other proportionate reasons. And then they quote Burke and others.

Still have yet to hear a proportionate reason to vote for the president who supports infanticide. Anyone who voted for Obama, voted for someone who supports infanticide. What are the proportionate reasons? School lunches for poor obese kids?

Ishii

 

[CMatt25]

Great criticism of the Church from someone who has supported a party that wanted to take God out of it’s platform. That opinion is worth it’s weight in gold!

I did not criticize your Church. I merely don’t believe it should align with one party to such a degree when neither party to me appears perfectly in line with Catholic ideas. Perfection is found only in heaven. Not among humans on earth. And political parties are made up of humans.

 

[oldcelt]

There is such a thing as ‘overkill’ - apparently nothing was learned when the sky failed to fall on the previous inauguration day…

I have a hard time with sore losers/whiners. I didn’t like it when some of my party kept it up in 2000 and I don’t like it now. If you can’t lose gracefully, you have no business playing the game.

What really kills me is that Gov. Romney tried to set a good example. He was gracious in defeat.

John

 

[CMatt25]

Can you explain to me exactly what place God has in a secular, political platform? Unless it’s to pander to religion, which I think is insulting to religion, it is unnecessary.

I can’t prove it, but I suspect that God is not happy with either party using his name for political gain. That is assuming that God has any interest at all in the American political system.

John

John

I haven’t heard that God is registered with either party.