Considering Leaving Mormonism For Traditional Christianity...

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Hi all, sorry I don’t know what happened to my post, however with refence to Rbecca J’s post and LWs comments about prophets, it seems to me that the definitive answer is the Epistle to the Hebrew which shows quite clearly that the time of the porophets, in the OT sense of their being his mouthpiece has finished. Christ is their fulfilment and that of the Law. In fact the writer clearly show that the Levitical priesthood is defunct with the coming of our only high priest after the order of Melchisedek. So the LDS aaronic priesthood no longer has any function because of Christs perfect sacrifice, furthermore whatever the Melchisedek priesthood was it was obviously not open to all, all priestly duties were the remit of the sons of Levi, and had to be repeated through their own sinful nature. So all is complete in him:)
Just to add to lynnettejane, this does not mean that the ministerial priesthood is gone. We know this because of Isaiah 66:21. The difference is now God takes priests and deacons from all the nations (New Covenant), and thus is no longer hereditary through Aaron and the Levites. Indeed, no more mortal High Priest, and Jesus now is the immortal High Priest.
 
Question, what are some good critical resources on the LDS faith from a Catholic or Orthodox perspective? I have “Inside Mormonism”, have read the Pope vs Prophet debate, and have listened to the Patrick Madrid debates. Are there any other good, substantial, resources available? Everything seems to be from an Evangelical perspective, which naturally includes certain understandings that neither Catholics/Orthodox nor Latter-day Saints would accept.
 
Wide range of subjects could be covered. One thing in particular that always stands out for me with Mormons and Evangelicals, compared to Catholicism, is how we read and understand Revelations. So, I recommend “The Rapture Exposed: The Message of Hope in the Book of Revelation” by Barbara Rossing. It is relevant to Mormonism because rapture theology comes from an incorrect reading/understanding of Revelations, which LDS share. Both also developed in the brew of 19th century American Protestantism. Both read/understand Revelations in the same way. This book explains the Catholic understanding of Revelations.
 
Question, what are some good critical resources on the LDS faith from a Catholic or Orthodox perspective? I have “Inside Mormonism”, have read the Pope vs Prophet debate, and have listened to the Patrick Madrid debates. Are there any other good, substantial, resources available? Everything seems to be from an Evangelical perspective, which naturally includes certain understandings that neither Catholics/Orthodox nor Latter-day Saints would accept.
LW 7 aren’t you just about read out? How many more resources do you need, or advice on where to go for more information? Maybe you need to start praying and turn to God’s word, just continue with your plan to attend forthcoming masses, give your soul a rest, trust him, ‘Come unto me all who labour and I will give you rest…’ and again ‘be still and know that I am God’, put your trust there and enter into his rest:juggle:
 
Wide range of subjects could be covered. One thing in particular that always stands out for me with Mormons and Evangelicals, compared to Catholicism, is how we read and understand Revelations. So, I recommend “The Rapture Exposed: The Message of Hope in the Book of Revelation” by Barbara Rossing. It is relevant to Mormonism because rapture theology comes from an incorrect reading/understanding of Revelations, which LDS share. Both also developed in the brew of 19th century American Protestantism. Both read/understand Revelations in the same way. This book explains the Catholic understanding of Revelations.
Thanks for the suggestion.
LW 7 aren’t you just about read out? How many more resources do you need, or advice on where to go for more information? Maybe you need to start praying and turn to God’s word, just continue with your plan to attend forthcoming masses, give your soul a rest, trust him, ‘Come unto me all who labour and I will give you rest…’ and again ‘be still and know that I am God’, put your trust there and enter into his rest:juggle:
Haha you are right. Trust me, I have already been praying (I pray at least twice a day), and yes, I will be attending various Masses in a few weeks. However, I feel like I need to make a prayerful and reasoned decision, as I don’t want to be deceived and fall for something that may appear reasonable on the surface, but turns out to be false (as I seem to feel is the case on various LDS-related issues and apologetics). I guess I have more than enough resources at hand already anyway…:rotfl:
 
Thanks for the suggestion.

Haha you are right. Trust me, I have already been praying (I pray at least twice a day), and yes, I will be attending various Masses in a few weeks. However, I feel like I need to make a prayerful and reasoned decision, as I don’t want to be deceived and fall for something that may appear reasonable on the surface, but turns out to be false (as I seem to feel is the case on various LDS-related issues and apologetics). I guess I have more than enough resources at hand already anyway…:rotfl:
The Holy Spirit is guiding you in all of this. None of us are.

When/if it is time for you to leave the lds, it will be on the Holy Spirits terms, not yours, mine, or anyone else’s, and it won’t be because you didn’t research it all. 😃

Still praying for you.
 
Thanks for the suggestion.

Haha you are right. Trust me, I have already been praying (I pray at least twice a day), and yes, I will be attending various Masses in a few weeks. However, I feel like I need to make a prayerful and reasoned decision, as I don’t want to be deceived and fall for something that may appear reasonable on the surface, but turns out to be false (as I seem to feel is the case on various LDS-related issues and apologetics). I guess I have more than enough resources at hand already anyway…:rotfl:
Yes… Continue to pray, and READ ON READ ON (tolle lege…)

Also… you don’t the OCEAN and its depth of confusion outside the Catholic Church (and other Apostolic Churches to some degree), where everyone decides to be their own Pope… Those who have experienced, probably don’t want to remember it.
 
My echo…

People get Catholic version of ‘love bomb’ when they express desire to come back into the Church by fellow Catholics.

Growing up in late 60’s, I had faith in Christ, but hesitant about calling myself Catholic. I always believed in the Eucharist and fully at peace with Mass and Scripture.
I read alot, including Teilhard de Chardin for example, but still in this nebulous place.

Finally when I was 21, my dad simply said you do not have faith in Christ’s Church. I looked to much to people and the nuns. His words literally stung my soul. So then right there, I reflected, and then said, ‘Yes, I believe.’
 
My echo…

People get Catholic version of ‘love bomb’ when they express desire to come back into the Church by fellow Catholics.
I agree. That is why I am being very low key on this thread.

But BOY HOWDY!!!, am i praying up a storm. 😃
 
Yes…pray alot…Frankly, Mormon think really taxes my own limited thinking.

It is Lent. It is also likewise a great thing to see people becoming Catholic here and sharing their testimony without having to go through so much intellectual hurdles.

But we are all different, each one his or her own way and time.
 
The best book on Mormonism is “The Changing World of Mormonism” by Jerald and Sandra Tanner - Sandra was B Young’s great-granddaughter.

The documents reproduced in that book speak for themselves. The did an amazing job. I have probably 20 books at least on the LDS & the Tanners are the best.

If you are thinking about leaving the LDS, your eyes are being opened; sounds like Someone is uprighting you!
 
So I recently went to the temple for a friend’s endowment (he asked me to come). I was late arriving, so wasn’t able to be there for the endowment ordinance (it isn’t like church where you can just show up. They close the doors to the initial endowment room at the beginning, and you’d have to wait for the next session). Instead, I ended up doing proxy sealings, because after you do sealings, you can go to the Celestial Room, and the endowment ordinance ends in the Celestial Room, so I could meet him and everyone else there.

On the one hand, it definitely was cool to be with so many young people on a weekend doing religious things (there was also a large group of youth at the temple for proxy baptisms). On the other hand, the whole time I was thinking/praying to God to help me know whether this House really has His “signature” on it.

When we met in the Celestial Room, we chatted for a bit, and he asked me about the purpose of a specific aspect of the endowment that is always discussed as to whether it is symbolic or something we would really do. I won’t get into specifics, but I’m sure we all know what I’m talking about. Brigham Young has this “famous” quote that is relevant (it is quoted in various other places so I feel okay giving it here):
**
Your endowment is to receive all those ordinances in the house of the Lord which are necessary for you, after you have departed this life, to enable you to walk back to the presence of the Father, passing the angels who stand as sentinels, being enabled to give them the keywords, the signs and tokens, pertaining to the holy priesthood, and gain your eternal exaltation**

He also asked me if I felt “confused” after my endowment. I said that we’d talk later on about everything, since he seemed like he didn’t know how to interpret what just happened (he may have just been overwhelmed since it’s a lot to take in the first time, and that’s why everyone always says “you have to keep going”), and I didn’t have much time to hang around.

Also, after going to Mass recently then going into the temple, I definitely noticed the difference, and perhaps more significantly, I felt the difference. It really has been something I’ve thought about ever since I’ve been LDS, but put it up on the shelf. And of course adding the “reason” side of the equation, I have often wondered about the continuity of the LDS temple rites with those of the Biblical tabernacle and temple(s). I’m aware of various LDS apologetics that attempt to make the connection, but to me, it always seems to fall into the same problem that has been my issue with LDS apologetics on ancient Judaism and Christianity: the apologists, in Nibley style, grasp at anything and everything, finding parallels everywhere, saying “look! it’s there in the Gnostic texts, Joseph Smith couldn’t have just made it up!” (something I’ve said frequently). Essentially, I see no Church of Jesus Christ of Former-day Saints, a cohesive unified group with these practices in one place, instead of all over the place. Even in the writings of the very earliest Christians we have, LDS apologists will quote things to prove beliefs like exaltation, yet those ECFs believed in traditional doctrines, and deification/theosis was never lost. Hmmmm…

Oh and I’m almost finished reading “Becoming Gods-A Closer Look at 21st Century Mormonism” by Richard Abanes (author of “One Nation Under Gods”). I highly recommend it! Although he’s Evangelical, I appreciate his respectful approach, as well as the fact that his book engages much of the recent LDS apologetic efforts by FARMS/MI/FAIR, including those on the issue I just mentioned (attempting to find certain unique Mormon beliefs and practices anciently), as this is what many find comforting in believing that JS didn’t make it all up (I know I ate all of that stuff up).

SO, just wanted to share that. I’m sure many of you would like me to post “YES, I resigned my callings, left the LDS Church, attended Confession, and am a believing and practicing Catholic again!” 😉 :p, but I’m not there yet. I’m leaning there, but I’m not there yet. Very difficult indeed…
 
Oh and I feel like watching the Conclave coverage on CNN isn’t helping :D. I did appreciate hearing that there was a Mass of the Holy Spirit prior to the start of the Conclave, to invite the Spirit to guide the process. Makes it clear that God is involved in the process (and that the Heavens are not closed).
 
FWIW, Richard Abanes posts here at CAF: forums.catholic-questions.org/search.php?searchid=13645666

As for Smith and the conglomeration of beliefs, that is how he viewed the world. Truth was for him, found here and there and everywhere, and what he liked, he brought into Mormon belief. It’s there in the LDS articles of faith. “If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.”

If you study the early LDS church (the original, not the break offs), you’ll find a different church. One that was very open to various beliefs. It still exists, to some extent, today, in the “Brighamite” branch of Mormonism. That is, every individual Mormon can believe a wide range of things, that another individual Mormon may not believe at all. It is why there is no orthodoxy in Mormonism.
 
Oh and I feel like watching the Conclave coverage on CNN isn’t helping :D. I did appreciate hearing that there was a Mass of the Holy Spirit prior to the start of the Conclave, to invite the Spirit to guide the process. Makes it clear that God is involved in the process (and that the Heavens are not closed).
Every mass I’ve been to for the last few weeks has included prayers for Pope Benedict XVI and the Bishops participating in the conclave. You can also adopt a Cardinal! adoptacardinal.org 🙂
 
SO, just wanted to share that. I’m sure many of you would like me to post “YES, I resigned my callings, left the LDS Church, attended Confession, and am a believing and practicing Catholic again!” 😉 :p, but I’m not there yet. I’m leaning there, but I’m not there yet. Very difficult indeed…
On the contrary, we all know the importance of taking one’s time to discern. There is no rush. Ultimately, this is between you and the Lord, not you and us.

Praying for you. Praying for your friend who just went thru the temple.

God Bless
 
Looking forward to seeing your religion stated as Catholic back home instead of discerning LDS. God Bless you in your continuing search.
 
So I recently went to the temple for a friend’s endowment (he asked me to come). I was late arriving, so wasn’t able to be there for the endowment ordinance (it isn’t like church where you can just show up. They close the doors to the initial endowment room at the beginning, and you’d have to wait for the next session). Instead, I ended up doing proxy sealings, because after you do sealings, you can go to the Celestial Room, and the endowment ordinance ends in the Celestial Room, so I could meet him and everyone else there.

On the one hand, it definitely was cool to be with so many young people on a weekend doing religious things (there was also a large group of youth at the temple for proxy baptisms). On the other hand, the whole time I was thinking/praying to God to help me know whether this House really has His “signature” on it.

When we met in the Celestial Room, we chatted for a bit, and he asked me about the purpose of a specific aspect of the endowment that is always discussed as to whether it is symbolic or something we would really do. I won’t get into specifics, but I’m sure we all know what I’m talking about. Brigham Young has this “famous” quote that is relevant (it is quoted in various other places so I feel okay giving it here):
**
Your endowment is to receive all those ordinances in the house of the Lord which are necessary for you, after you have departed this life, to enable you to walk back to the presence of the Father, passing the angels who stand as sentinels, being enabled to give them the keywords, the signs and tokens, pertaining to the holy priesthood, and gain your eternal exaltation**

He also asked me if I felt “confused” after my endowment. I said that we’d talk later on about everything, since he seemed like he didn’t know how to interpret what just happened (he may have just been overwhelmed since it’s a lot to take in the first time, and that’s why everyone always says “you have to keep going”), and I didn’t have much time to hang around.

Also, after going to Mass recently then going into the temple, I definitely noticed the difference, and perhaps more significantly, I felt the difference. It really has been something I’ve thought about ever since I’ve been LDS, but put it up on the shelf. And of course adding the “reason” side of the equation, I have often wondered about the continuity of the LDS temple rites with those of the Biblical tabernacle and temple(s). I’m aware of various LDS apologetics that attempt to make the connection, but to me, it always seems to fall into the same problem that has been my issue with LDS apologetics on ancient Judaism and Christianity: the apologists, in Nibley style, grasp at anything and everything, finding parallels everywhere, saying “look! it’s there in the Gnostic texts, Joseph Smith couldn’t have just made it up!” (something I’ve said frequently). Essentially, I see no Church of Jesus Christ of Former-day Saints, a cohesive unified group with these practices in one place, instead of all over the place. Even in the writings of the very earliest Christians we have, LDS apologists will quote things to prove beliefs like exaltation, yet those ECFs believed in traditional doctrines, and deification/theosis was never lost. Hmmmm…

Oh and I’m almost finished reading “Becoming Gods-A Closer Look at 21st Century Mormonism” by Richard Abanes (author of “One Nation Under Gods”). I highly recommend it! Although he’s Evangelical, I appreciate his respectful approach, as well as the fact that his book engages much of the recent LDS apologetic efforts by FARMS/MI/FAIR, including those on the issue I just mentioned (attempting to find certain unique Mormon beliefs and practices anciently), as this is what many find comforting in believing that JS didn’t make it all up (I know I ate all of that stuff up).

SO, just wanted to share that. I’m sure many of you would like me to post “YES, I resigned my callings, left the LDS Church, attended Confession, and am a believing and practicing Catholic again!” 😉 :p, but I’m not there yet. I’m leaning there, but I’m not there yet. Very difficult indeed…
Alot of us on here are converts. One direction or another. As a convert, we do tend look at every possible means of escape as well as every possible means of retreat, and keeping the status quo.

It is not easy!! Nobody but you can make this decision. We can give you all of the advice and references you want. You can read until you’re blue in the face, but it all boils down to you and God.

Remember, God comes to us in a whisper (for me it was a 2x4 :p). Something that is hard to hear sometimes. Just be still and know that he is God.

God knows your heart. You’ll get where you’re going. Just let him lead you.

I just pray that you go where he leads you.
 
Also, after going to Mass recently then going into the temple, I definitely noticed the difference, and perhaps more significantly, I felt the difference. It really has been something I’ve thought about ever since I’ve been LDS, but put it up on the shelf. And of course adding the “reason” side of the equation, I have often wondered about the continuity of the LDS temple rites with those of the Biblical tabernacle and temple(s). I’m aware of various LDS apologetics that attempt to make the connection, but to me, it always seems to fall into the same problem that has been my issue with LDS apologetics on ancient Judaism and Christianity: the apologists, in Nibley style, grasp at anything and everything, finding parallels everywhere, saying “look! it’s there in the Gnostic texts, Joseph Smith couldn’t have just made it up!” (something I’ve said frequently). Essentially, I see no Church of Jesus Christ of Former-day Saints, a cohesive unified group with these practices in one place, instead of all over the place. Even in the writings of the very earliest Christians we have, LDS apologists will quote things to prove beliefs like exaltation, yet those ECFs believed in traditional doctrines, and deification/theosis was never lost. Hmmmm…
LW7, regarding this. I’m sure you’re aware of the Masonic connections to the LDS endowment. If not, it is something more for you to look up.

Of course, from my POV, there is no continuity from early Christianity to Mormonism. The standard Mormon answer is “great apostasy”. Well, there is no evidence for such a thing. It is a conspiracy theory, at best.

OT: Did you post on CAF before joining the Mormons?
 
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