Contraception and the modern woman

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apricot_yogurt

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How do you justify the church’s position on ABC when I see so many of my friends and aquaintances in positions they wouldn’t be in if it weren’t for contraception. Thinking in particular of some of my friends in useful, productive careers, that make having a child an inconvinience.
 
Well not being a person of faith I can really only say what people have told me and that is contraception is selfish. I haven’t been able to get any kind of better reason other than that.
 
apricot_yogurt said:
How do you justify the church’s position on ABC when I see so many of my friends and aquaintances in positions they wouldn’t be in if it weren’t for contraception. Thinking in particular of some of my friends in useful, productive careers, that make having a child an inconvinience.
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Golly, to think of all those parents who never knew that being parents caused them to be unuseful or unproductive.
 
Sorry. I’m a bit tired right now, so not making much sense, I think.
Let’s give you an example of my friend E. She has a very admirable position helping people to get heathier and back to work after illness-but in order to do this, she has to sin, by using contraception. So for her, not using conrtaception would be a bad thing. How does one even begin to explain the church’s position?
 
How do you put the genie back in the bottle. Can you imagine what would happen to the workforce if women stopped using contraception? But how can we have a society that only functions fully when a large proportion are sinning to do it?
 
Contraception breaks the twofold meaning of the marital embrace–procreative and unitive.

Perhaps you should study up a bit on what the Church teaches:
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_25031995_evangelium-vitae_en.html
vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_jp-ii_exh_19811122_familiaris-consortio_en.html
(list of family encyclicals: vatican.va/themes/famiglia_test/santopadre_en.htm)

Also, you might want to persue through the Catechism:
Part 3 section 2 starting at #2197 and keep going…(#2331 etc)

Part 2 section 3 starting at #1601
 
apricot_yogurt said:
Sorry. I’m a bit tired right now, so not making much sense, I think.
Let’s give you an example of my friend E. She has a very admirable position helping people to get heathier and back to work after illness-but in order to do this, she has to sin, by using contraception. So for her, not using conrtaception would be a bad thing. How does one even begin to explain the church’s position?
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Even with your further explanation, your question still shows a devaluing of human life. I’m glad your friend does such worthy work, but can anything be more important than bringing human life into the world that has the potential to become part of the Kingdom of God? Sex is as much a spiritual act as it is a physical act, God has given us sex so that we can share our love with our spouse, giving ourselves fully and completely, which mirrors Christ giving himself to the Church, and through that, to create human life. Sex comes directly from God, and to use for merely physical satisfaction, and to say that the result of sex - children - is an inconvenience, is one of the most blasphemous things that anyone can say or do. You can trace almost every evil in our society - abortion, euthanasia, same sex marriage, the devaluing of women and children, destruction of the family, etc. - to the use of artificial contraception.

What if God used some sort of spiritual “contraception” when it comes to bringing people into heaven? Sorry, you’re not convenient for me right now. I have better things to do than give you salvation.

Think about what you’re saying. Contraception is an intrinsic evil, as evil as murder. If our world could come to understand that, paradise would break out tomorrow.

Mary
 
apricot_yogurt said:
How do you put the genie back in the bottle. Can you imagine what would happen to the workforce if women stopped using contraception? But how can we have a society that only functions fully when a large proportion are sinning to do it?
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Yea, men would have jobs and unemployment would be nil. However, women can have families and work. Employers could support women who get pregnant by not firing them or by not giving their jobs away. There is also something called NFP that is allowed for spacing births.
 
Jennifer_J said:
Yea, men would have jobs and unemployment would be nil. However, women can have families and work. Employers could support women who get pregnant by not firing them or by not giving their jobs away. There is also something called NFP that is allowed for spacing births.
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Jennifer - thank you for the wonderful example you and your husband give the world. He has already done so, but God Bless you and your family! 👍

Mary
 
I held a high ranking corporate position with an international fortune 500 company, I was a mom AND disabled AND used NFP for more than a decade to sadly avoid more children due to that disability.

If women stopped using all those horrible hormones, they would be MORE productive, healthier and happier - that makes for better employees.

Why on earth do you think that children make one unable to have a carreer? Look at St Therese’s mom. She ran a very successful business and was a successful mother.
 
apricot_yogurt said:
How do you put the genie back in the bottle. Can you imagine what would happen to the workforce if women stopped using contraception? But how can we have a society that only functions fully when a large proportion are sinning to do it?
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What would happen to the workforce? I don’t think society is functioning very well right now, and the primary reason is the disordered way men and women conduct their relationships. When it’s every man and woman for himself or herself, things become more difficult. Putting the genie back into the bottle means practicing self control. It’s that simple.

Prior to 1968, this was dating.

Dating various people without sex.
Going steady with one person, which may or may not lead to…
Courtship, and both families getting to know each other, which may or may not lead to…
Engagement. Where the father sits the young man down and asks how he will support his daughter. This is when finances, housing and children are discussed. Then, if both are still willing…
Marriage. A bond of trust, faith and commitment based on true love of each other and God.

But birth control manufacturers needed to sell millions of birth control pills. The goal of the marketing plan was to convince people that pleasure was the most important thing. So, send in the Hippies.

The Sexual Revolution was about sex, not love.

In the 1970s, the dam breaks. Adult bookstores begin appearing, along with topless go-go bars and Swinging, the new word for adultery and fornication. The groundwork was put in place in the 1969 movie, Bob, Carol, Ted & Alice. Also called, “wife swapping.”

Abortion legalized.

So-called Women’s Liberation and the National Organization for Women putting the fear of men into all women. “Sisters! Throw off the chains of your oppression!”

Gloria Steinam publishes Ms. magazine, a sort of feminist playboy (girl). Ms. is still in the vocabulary of some to this day.

TV and movies continue to become more sexualized.

1980s Porn on cable and motels. Dallas on TV with the evil J.R. Ewing and his wife, Sue Ellen, drinking liquor straight from the bottle while driving.

No-Fault Divorce completes its sweep of the country. “No kids? $75 and you’re out. Call 800-DIVORCE.”

1990s Profanity and Partial Nudity on NYPD Blue. I did not ask for any of the above. Shock jocks spewing filth. Rap denegrating women and promoting violence. Movies are getting worse.

Church parking lots are almost empty but mall parking lots fill up.

There is no modern woman or man. There are too many individuals who have been gradually led to believe it’s OK to shack up, divorce is no big deal and too many guys who are walking to the liquor store at midnight to buy a 30 and living alone.

In the 1960s, people really tried to remain faithful. True love was important, but for some, that’s been reduced to just sex, like using the bathroom.

Do we want a society where half the population is divorced, where kids have to suffer because of it and where one in five people have an STD? Anybody?

Compared to my example of dating in the 1960s, this is better?

Peace,
Ed
 
apricot_yogurt said:
How do you justify the church’s position on ABC when I see so many of my friends and aquaintances in positions they wouldn’t be in if it weren’t for contraception. Thinking in particular of some of my friends in useful, productive careers, that make having a child an inconvinience.
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We don’t need to justify the church’s position on contraception. We can try to explain it to someone, but we don’t need to justify it.

The Church’s postion on contraception goes along with her teachings on sex and marriage. The Church did not force the successful friends of yours to get married, nor engage in sexual relations. That was their choice. Note I used the word “choice”, which has been distorted by some in the modern era to mean abortion. How do we explain the Church’s postion on abortion when so many successful women have useful, productive careers that make having a child inconvenient? Because abortion is wrong.

I know older women (most now deceased, may they rest in peace) who had successful careers prior to this “modern era”. They were either single, married but infertile, or vowed religious nuns. When you look throughout history, some women prior to the modern era got into postions of authority, such as CEO’s of major health providers and educational systems. :nun2: Don’t under-estimate the power of women in little black dresses.
 
apricot_yogurt said:
How do you justify the church’s position on ABC when I see so many of my friends and aquaintances in positions they wouldn’t be in if it weren’t for contraception. Thinking in particular of some of my friends in useful, productive careers, that make having a child an inconvinience.
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This is just about the most ignorant thing I’ve ever seen written on the boards. How insulting to all women.

I’m sure you are aware that the church teaches there are legitimate ways to space children when there is a serious reason to do so based on periodic continence.

Your statement is a false dicotomy, as if one must choose sinning in order to have a career. What a load of …
 
Yeah…I, for one, do not consider taking such a drug to be “liberating” in any way. Quite frankly, I shouldn’t have to view my body and my reproductive system as an obstacle…the enemy.

I mean…maybe it’s because I’ve got PCOS or something. But it absolutely kills me when women consider their femininity to be a curse. It really does. How can we truly be respected as women when we don’t even respect the feminine in ourselves?
Employers could support women who get pregnant by not firing them or by not giving their jobs away.
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Exactly. When women have such open access to things like ABC and abortion, do we really have any excuse anymore? It’s SAD. It really is.

There’s more to liberation than sex whenever I want. Like…maybe society will realize that we…I don’t know…have these certain “female only” organs, have cycles…and we sometimes get pregnant? This is why I like NFP…because it takes into consideration that the woman has a functional reproductive system too.

Respect mah uterus! :nunchuk:
 
I was thinking specifically of my friends who use contraception. Not women who use NFP and are in the workforce, or any body else. There seems to be this complete disconnection with them. Their whole lives are based on this trust in contraception and its effectiveness. Huge mortgages based on always having two incomes, two cars etc. What I’m saying is aren’t they in effect enslaved by contraception, rather than liberated?
 
I should point out that I am in complete agreement with the church on this. I should have written How do I justify? rather than how do you, which I meant in the sense, how does one?
I don’t think children are an inconvinience, far from it. My friends feel this way.
 
NFP is nearly as effective as the contraceptive pill. Completely possible for a faithful woman to have a demanding career without using ABC. If God is calling a woman to say be a doctor, that’s when NFP comes in.
 
apricot_yogurt said:
I was thinking specifically of my friends who use contraception. Not women who use NFP and are in the workforce, or any body else. There seems to be this complete disconnection with them. Their whole lives are based on this trust in contraception and its effectiveness. Huge mortgages based on always having two incomes, two cars etc. What I’m saying is aren’t they in effect enslaved by contraception, rather than liberated?
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Ok, making more sense now. Your OP sounded like you were justifying contraception! YIKES!

I agree, women have been duped!
 
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