Contraception and the modern woman

[gardenswithkids]

There may be a distinction there but it sounds like the prelude to a kind of ‘angels and pinheads’ conversation…

I’m not really interested in “angels on pinheads” discussions. The distinction is in sexual activity. Women don’t have to engage in sexual relations. Many seem to have forgotten that option.

For all the advances that modern women seem to have made, it seems that women face sexual exploitation and harrassment more than they did in previous generations. Many women face the choice between single motherhood or abortion, having found themselves virtually abandoned by their sex partners if their contraception fails. Married women who may want to start a family or stay home with their children find it very difficult as housing prices and the cost of living almost depends on two incomes. There are a few highly successful women who have managed to make it to various positions of authority, but a few women managed to attain positions of power in the past before the widespread use of contraception. Overall, even setting morality aside, when we look at the current situations of most women, I think contraception did more to harm and entrap “the modern woman” than many will admit.

 

[Kaninchen]

I’m not really interested in “angels on pinheads” discussions. The distinction is in sexual activity. Women don’t have to engage in sexual relations. Many seem to have forgotten that option.

That’s an assumption that one may or may not make.

For all the advances that modern women seem to have made, it seems that women face sexual exploitation and harrassment more than they did in previous generations. Many women face the choice between single motherhood or abortion, having found themselves virtually abandoned by their sex partners if their contraception fails. Married women who may want to start a family or stay home with their children find it very difficult as housing prices and the cost of living almost depends on two incomes. There are a few highly successful women who have managed to make it to various positions of authority, but a few women managed to attain positions of power in the past before the widespread use of contraception. Overall, even setting morality aside, when we look at the current situations of most women, I think contraception did more to harm and entrap “the modern woman” than many will admit.

There are enough chickens and eggs in there to start a poultry farm.

 

[edwest2]

Interesting, the “Naughty People Marketing Conspiracy Theory”.

Couples don’t use contraception just to avoid “continually pregnancy and lots of children” but because they want to have sex without getting pregnant. Many in our culture believe sex has little or no connection with pregnancy. Contraception helps make that possible.

I don’t know if “brainwashing” and “thought control” are the right terms. It’s more like some influential people encourage a lack of self control. It may have some connection with marketing. Advertisors often encourage both lust and greed, (which are usually found together.) They don’t just market contraception–they market innapropriate sexual behaviors and exploit human weaknesses to sell all kinds of stuff.

And some people buy it.

This was all carefully planned 40 years ago. With all the sex education in schools today, I’m sure plenty of people understand that sex and pregnancy are connected, but the goal was to destroy the family. To completely separate sex from love.

Humanae Vitae was a pivotal document in 1968. The Church knew that with the availability of The Pill, more people were thinking they could have sex without consequences. But the Sale of millions of birth control pills was at stake.

Send in the Hippies. Free Love! Sex with anyone. The Sexual Revolution was about sex, not love.

1969 The movie Bob, Carol, Ted and Alice introduces the public to “wife swapping,” otherwise known as Swinging.

1970s Porn Bookstores appear across the country.

1973 Abortion legalized.

The National Organization of Women convinces some women that they will become the victims of the eternal enemy – Men.

1980s No-Fault Divorce completes its sweep of the country. No kids? $75 and you’re out. Call 800-DIVORCE.

Catholics wonder how we got here. Annulments, Divorce, lack of Church attendance. Once you totally wreck the proper way for men and women to have relationships with each other, here is the fruit of it. Kids grow up in broken homes. Are they going to feel confident about marriage? Or will they just shack up like other people?

The Church, in Humanae Vitae, warned about the consequences, and temptations, involved with contraception. All of it has come to pass. And the biggest deception is that we cannot control ourselves. Who, Catholic or non-Catholic reading this, decides when you have sex?

Peace,
Ed

 

[Kaninchen]

This was all carefully planned 40 years ago.

Name the guilty and very, very naughty parties involved!

 

[kage_ar]

Name the guilty and very, very naughty parties involved!

Principalities, powers and rulers of darkness in high places.

 

[Kaninchen]

Principalities, powers and rulers of darkness in high places.

You have the minutes (or ‘secret protocol’) or whatever?

 

[cuqui]

I should point out that I am in complete agreement with the church on this. I should have written How do I justify? rather than how do you, which I meant in the sense, how does one?
I don’t think children are an inconvinience, far from it. My friends feel this way.

You do not have to justify to your friends your own beliefs. The fact that they differ in your value system says more about what kind of people they are. Not all people are equally disposed spiritually to accept the teachings of the Catholic church, let alone follow it.

Hopefully, from your actions they will see that you got it right and soon follow suit. It may take several years and lotsa prayer.

 

[kage_ar]

You have the minutes (or ‘secret protocol’) or whatever?

We know this from Scripture.

 

[Kaninchen]

We know this from Scripture.

But Ed said that it was all carefully planned 40 years ago which rather implies that some people actually did so - saying that it’s ‘from Scripture’ doesn’t exactly cut it in terms of telling us who, where, when and agendas/minutes of the meetings, especially for those of us for whom the Christian scriptures mean nothing in the first place.

 

[gardenswithkids]

Name the guilty and very, very naughty parties involved!

I have to smile at your continued use of the word “naughty”. And I like the bunny in your signiture. Anyway, since you want us to name names, I’ll go back further than forty years to name Margaret Sanger, founder of what is now Planned Parenthood. Her ideology crossed into eugenics. She desired to control the population of the “unfit” through forced sterilization if neccesary. She also promoted contraception to give “fit” women “sexual freedom”. You can do a web search for “margaret sanger eugenics” and turn up lots of information about her and the history to the contraception movement in America. Here’s one example:
monthlycallforlife.com/2005/September/MargaretSangerEugenicLegacy.htm

 

[Kaninchen]

I have to smile at your continued use of the word “naughty”. And I like the bunny in your signiture. Anyway, since you want us to name names, I’ll go back further than forty years to name Margaret Sanger, founder of what is now Planned Parenthood. Her ideology crossed into eugenics. She desired to control the population of the “unfit” through forced sterilization if neccesary. She also promoted contraception to give “fit” women “sexual freedom”. You can do a web search for “margaret sanger eugenics” and turn up lots of information about her and the history to the contraception movement in America. Here’s one example:
monthlycallforlife.com/2005/September/MargaretSangerEugenicLegacy.htm

Well, yes but Margaret Sanger didn’t sit around 40 years ago plotting in Ed’s group of naughty people.

You see, when I read these kinds of arguments, what I see is a wonderful embroidery of ‘post hoc ergo propter hoc’ themes rather than some grand conspiracy and, not only that, the ignoring of huge technological, economic and social forces/events that must never be allowed in the carefully embroidered pictures less they mar the allegories.

People are not using contraception because they’re in love with Margaret Sanger, they’re using contraception because they don’t want to be continually pregnant and have large families.

 

[kage_ar]

People are not using contraception because they’re in love with Margaret Sanger, they’re using contraception because they don’t want to be continually pregnant and have large families.

I do not use contraception.

I am not continually pregnant.

We have one living child.

 

[Kaninchen]

I do not use contraception.

I am not continually pregnant.

We have one living child.

You’re probably living by whatever codes you choose to live by and, as a member of a religion where life could be thought of, somewhat cynically, as permanent OCD, I congratulate you.

Doesn’t mean anybody else has to make your choices or that the fact that they don’t was determined by a meeting of some naughty people 40 years ago.

 

[Debra_C]

How do you justify the church’s position on ABC when I see so many of my friends and aquaintances in positions they wouldn’t be in if it weren’t for contraception. Thinking in particular of some of my friends in useful, productive careers, that make having a child an inconvinience.

The Church’s position boils down to the idea that it is immoral to separate the marital act from it natural & biological outcome, which is essentially the building of a stronger bond between the man and woman involved and reproduction. If you look at sex from a purely biological perspective, it is clear that it’s purpose is reproduction. We know also that it is an activity that builds personal bonds. TO top it off, for most of us, it proves to be a fun and desirabe activity as well. We believe man to be made in the image of God by a special act of creation. Each and every time a couple has sex, they are taking part in that creation and opening themselves to the possibility of a new life. This is a sacred act, which is why the Church teaches it should a) be reserved to the sacramental relationship of marriage, and b) not be divorced from its basic biological purpose. To violate these tenets perverts it.

The question then is why is your friend’s career more important to her than her marriage or the possibility of children? If her career earns her enough money that it would be an undue hardship to leave it for a few years to raise children, perhaps she could look into hiring a nanny or using daycare. Not all women who have children leave their careers behind, and few leave them permanantly. Also, there is always the option of NFP, which the Church finds quite acceptable. So the question is what is most important in life? What does your career bring you? Money? Things? Influence? The reality check is that a career is supposed to be a means of providing for your needs, not the center of life itself. We are first members of the human family and children of God, and our first duty in the vocation of matrimony is to God and one another, not our jobs or even those that benefit from our jobs.

The best thing to do is perhaps find some well written literature you can share on the Theology of the Body (perhaps The Good News About Sex and Marriage) if you think she’d be willing to give it a read and/or pray for her, that she will see the error of the world’s way before it is too late for her to reverse course. Many women have reached menopause or been talked into permanant sterilization only to regret not having had children or find themselves wishing they’d had more.

 

[edwest2]

You’re probably living by whatever codes you choose to live by and, as a member of a religion where life could be thought of, somewhat cynically, as permanent OCD, I congratulate you.

Doesn’t mean anybody else has to make your choices or that the fact that they don’t was determined by a meeting of some naughty people 40 years ago.

Do you come here to insult people? Just wondering.

Peace,
Ed

 

[Kaninchen]

Do you come here to insult people? Just wondering.

No, ed, I’ve come here to get you to tell us about the who, when and where of this careful planning 40 years ago, the meetings, agendas, minutes, protocols etc.

 

[r4j]

No, ed, I’ve come here to get you to tell us about the who, when and where of this careful planning 40 years ago, the meetings, agendas, minutes, protocols etc.

Kaninchen - I’ve read the last several posts between you and ed and kage.
I think ed’s point is that people, particularly those with influence, can lead things in a certain direction. Most people will move with the tide, I think that’s one of the reasons we are referred to as sheep in scripture. I don’t think ed is saying exactly 40 years ago, these specific people got together and decided on this specific plan of attack. Things happen over time. Certainly some moments in history jump out as more significant than others and ed is picking a point he feels was a critical timeframe. We do need to regularly step back and ask ‘are we headed in the right direction?’ And for us Catholics, that direction has already been defined, by truth itself, God.
As for your comments to kage, you said she’s made choices to live a certian way and that’s good for her but we don’t have to necessarily live her way. Well, when she said “I do not use contraception. I am not continually pregnant. We have one living child.” she is living her Catholic faith properly. You see our faith teaches us, we have free will, but that free will, in order to be truly free, must be able to choose the good at all times. What’s the good? God. You see we don’t make up the truth (i.e. choose what we want to do), we conform our will to that of Father and His will. Because His will, will perfect and fulfill us.
Many people have the misconception that Catholics are told to have babies ad infinitem. That is not true, it simply is not the teaching of the Church. There’s much more wisdom to the Church’s teaching that many of us know. And it only makes sense, since our Church came from the source of all wisdom, God.

 

[Kaninchen]

There’s much more wisdom to the Church’s teaching that many of us know. And it only makes sense, since our Church came from the source of all wisdom, God.

As I suggested in my post, being Jewish, I can more than appreciate ‘we do all this stuff because this is what we do (for a whole range of reasons which we don’t have to go into)’ and far be it from me to criticize any Catholic following the practical consequences of the religion’s beliefs - on the other hand, I don’t expect people to keep Kosher.

Now, I appreciate that Ed, was being carried away, as usual, with his grabbing all sorts of events, people - naughty, naughty people and (very likely somewhere) evil evolutionists, personal memories and whatever else came to mind to embroider a picture - or series of pictures.

This is not the kind of picture, or set of pictures, that you’re describing though. We can all provide pictures that show turning points that we might consider good or bad - some people would provide pictures that were heavy on ‘religion’, some, as in my case, would be much more heavy on technological and economic turning points.

What people here are trying to get us to believe though - hence my hounding of Ed as the most voluble example - is that there has been/was/is some kind of conspiracy.

 

[kage_ar]

What people here are trying to get us to believe though - hence my hounding of Ed as the most voluble example - is that there has been/was/is some kind of conspiracy.

Read Margaret Sanger’s work. She started planned parenthood with a huge honking agenda. The consipracy to behind this agenda was and is kept close to the vest.

The eugenics movement spawned many evils in this world - a certain dictator who killed millions while running Germany followed lifted a page or three from her play book.

Today, planned parenthood has a bigger agenda - they want to be the only provider of abortion in the world (they are already the biggest).

The agenda is very real, behind it ARE principalities and powers and rulers of darkness - just like Jesus said.

 

[Reuben_J]

I’m really not interested in talking about Catholic morality, it’s absolutely none of my business, I just questioned the idea that the uptake of contraception was the result of some conspiracy of naughty people.

I don’t know about the initial stage. But once birth control caught on, there was indeed conspiracy - by the drug companies that market the drugs; and more subtle by the rich institutions and their owners and first worlds. The former is to promote birth control without reveling the full consequence of the side effect - million of women suffer this side effect, most commonly cancer.

The latter seems to try to suppress the growth of population especially in the third world countries. The rational - world wealth is spread thin to be shared by the more populous poor in the third world. OTOH the rich first world population is dwindling. Some outward action that indicate this like - aid to poor third world countries that being distributed and handled by UN agencies such as UNICEF put a condition that this aid would be be given if the country concerned promote birth control. Rich donors include the likes of Turner, Rockefeller or Gate; are sure to have some say in how their riches are being distributed.

It would be naive to think that there is no conspiracy - the question is how covert it is. Doctors and experts are paid unreasonable huge amount of money and perks by drug companies for them to make statements that promote contraceptive.