Contraception and the modern woman

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First of all, I’d like to explode the myth of the “modern” woman. There is no modern woman. For Catholics, there is living by Biblical principles that are unchanging. Sure, people outside of the faith can and do make their own choices. I’m sure not going house to house to see what other people are doing. I don’t want to bother anyone. But, if we call ourselves Catholics, we should live as Catholics. Sometimes, non-believers feel that the Church is pressing in on their ‘rights.’ Nothing could be further from the truth. Conversely, Catholics should not be afraid to explain our lives as a witness to the Truth, even if only one person is listening.

There have been various movements over the years with lifelong commitments. Some have been good, others bad. In 1968, the Church knew that The Pill was enticing to people. Have sex, enjoy yourself. That’s what it should be all about. But there is such a thing as social engineering. The makers of Birth Control Pills would lose money if they couldn’t sell them to Catholics who listened to the Pope.

Too many of us looked at our neighbors shacking up or swinging or getting divorced and said, you know, maybe I should do one of those things. Too many of us became addicted to porn, becoming prisoners. And too many of us confused the idea that if something was legal that also made it OK to actually do.

Contraception tells people to separate sex from responsibility. It also helps sell the lie that young people cannot control themselves.

The assault on the family began in the 1960s in a vicious campaign that used words and images designed to affect people. Some of us understood what it was and that it was no reason to change our way of living.

1960s
Betty Friedan writes The Feminine Mystique. She goes on to call the family “a comfortable concentration camp.”

Hippies and anarchists promote sex with anyone and no need for marriage.

1970s

Adult bookstores open everywhere selling images of prostitutes.

Gloria Steinem publishes Ms. magazine, a sort of playboy for women. She goes on to say “A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.” Today, Miss Steinem is a signatory to a document promoting marriage with multiple conjugal partners.

The National Organization for Woman was a powerful propaganda organization designed to scare women to death – to create fear, suspicion and mistrust between women and men. They have a “no position” position on prostitution. This group was instrumental in laying the emotional groundwork for No-Fault Divorce in the 1980s.

By the 1990s, with enough families torn apart by divorce, the movies, TV programs and the radio just got dirtier and dirtier. Throw in the internet with access to porn 24/7 and make most characters on TV and the movies profoundly dysfunctional, and now, welcome to the rotten fruit of it.

Peace,
Ed
 
Read Margaret Sanger’s work. She started planned parenthood with a huge honking agenda. The consipracy to behind this agenda was and is kept close to the vest. . . .
Ever heard of ‘post hoc ergo propter hoc’? The fact that Sanger was, or was not, a very, very naughty person does not mean that women are using contraception on her orders or the orders of any organization of which she may, or may not, have been a member, or that there’s any plan, any scheme behind the fact that most women don’t want to be continually pregnant and have lots of children.
 
I don’t know about the initial stage. But once birth control caught on, there was indeed conspiracy - by the drug companies that market the drugs; and more subtle by the rich institutions and their owners and first worlds. The former is to promote birth control without reveling the full consequence of the side effect - million of women suffer this side effect, most commonly cancer.

The latter seems to try to suppress the growth of population especially in the third world countries. The rational - world wealth is spread thin to be shared by the more populous poor in the third world. OTOH the rich first world population is dwindling. Some outward action that indicate this like - aid to poor third world countries that being distributed and handled by UN agencies such as UNICEF put a condition that this aid would be be given if the country concerned promote birth control. Rich donors include the likes of Turner, Rockefeller or Gate; are sure to have some say in how their riches are being distributed.

It would be naive to think that there is no conspiracy - the question is how covert it is. Doctors and experts are paid unreasonable huge amount of money and perks by drug companies for them to make statements that promote contraceptive.
And people call Dan Brown’s ‘Catholic conspiracies’ weird!

It’s not drug companies, it’s not ‘principalities’, it’s women’s demand for products that provide a simple means to avoiding being continually pregnant and having lots of children.
 
Ever heard of ‘post hoc ergo propter hoc’? The fact that Sanger was, or was not, a very, very naughty person does not mean that women are using contraception on her orders or the orders of any organization of which she may, or may not, have been a member, or that there’s any plan, any scheme behind the fact that most women don’t want to be continually pregnant and have lots of children.
Exactly, but believing women use it based on some elaborate conspiracy theory is much more fun. 😉
 
Ever heard of ‘post hoc ergo propter hoc’? The fact that Sanger was, or was not, a very, very naughty person does not mean that women are using contraception on her orders or the orders of any organization of which she may, or may not, have been a member, or that there’s any plan, any scheme behind the fact that most women don’t want to be continually pregnant and have lots of children.
Kaninchen
Do jews belive in contraception? Do jews believe in abortion?
Do you personally believe in contraception? Do you personally believe in abortion?

Just curious
 
I should point out that I am in complete agreement with the church on this. I should have written How do I justify? rather than how do you, which I meant in the sense, how does one?
I don’t think children are an inconvinience, far from it. My friends feel this way.
Hi apricot yogurt. 👋

You can see by all the posts on your thread, it is very difficult to explain the Church teachings against contraception to someone who wants to use it. Sometimes a better approach may be to discuss what the Church is FOR rather than what the Church is against.

There are numerous Bible verses on how God regards children as blessings. Church teachings on marriage, sex and family reflect that–even proper use of NFP to avoid pregnancy requires the couple to have a “just” reason for avoiding pregnancy and/or the blessing of additional children. Modern thinking seems to regard one, maybe two children, (and possibly three but that’s really pushing it) as blessings. Of course that’s if those children are carefully planned by the parents and fit neatly into the parent’s lifestyle. Many “moderns” want everything “bigger” in their lives, except their families. It is very difficult to break through to people in this mindset.

Frankly, *you *can not break through that mindset–only God can. You can set the example by regarding your own children as blessings and reminding your friends of that Biblical perspective. You can let them know that you follow and believe what the Church teaches. I think also that couples struggling with infertility can play a particularly vital role in helping God remind others that the blessing of children is not guaranteed, and that fertility should not be taken for granted. I will also throw out the thought that not every couple going through involuntary infertility feels comfortable discussing their struggles. You might think you’re looking at a friend who has rejected children in favor of a successful career, while she may be looking at you and wishing she had what you have.
 
No, ed, I’ve come here to get you to tell us about the who, when and where of this careful planning 40 years ago, the meetings, agendas, minutes, protocols etc.
You should read “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion” and then you will see where all the conspiracy theory comes from! :D:D:D:D

BTW I still do not understand why my mother never accepted my explanation: “I did not want to, but my sister made me do it!” :D:D:D:D
 
And people call Dan Brown’s ‘Catholic conspiracies’ weird!

It’s not drug companies, it’s not ‘principalities’, it’s women’s demand for products that provide a simple means to avoiding being continually pregnant and having lots of children.
You may say that but I don’t believe you, though the thought can be mutual.

It is worth noting that you compare the conspiracy that I mentioned with Dan Brown’s fiction.

Well, what is said in my post is not fiction!

I know a doctor who headed population control in UNICEF for 28 years before she resigned after a change of heart. There is concerted action by the world body to suppress population growth by artificial birth control. And this world body is essentially influenced by those who make it functions - the donors.

It does not matter whether the method of the birth control cause untold suffering of women. Millions, I say millions of women today suffer the side effect of artificial birth control. No drug companies have ever candidly stopped their production of oral contraceptive pills because of the dangers of its side effect being posed to its users.

Another artificial birth control device, the Intra Uterine Device (IUD) is so unsafe that we totally stop using it today but it is not so in third world countries because of poverty or simply because they were never told how fatal IUD is to their health. I don’t have to tell you all the side effects of artificial birth control; you can find them all over in literatures and internet.

The doctor I mentioned experienced some hardship after resigning because she had no job. She was offered 1 million USD by an agency having an interest in a drug company if she could take a job promoting birth control because of the credibility she had from her experience and qualification.
 
I don’t buy the conspiracy theory really. Though many people and events as well as changing social attitudes have “conspired” to create our society’s current mess, I have real doubt about the idea that any such conspiracy was carefully planned or even intentional. However, I will say these two things: 1) the advent of widely available and reliable birth control has had very much the detrimental effects on society and the family that Pope Paul VI predicted would be likely in Humanae Vitae and 2) I am PERSONALLY much happier in both my marriage and with my health (body and soul) since I quit using it.

With that said, to your point about not having expectations that the rest of the world will keep kosher… I have no expectation at all that I can make (or expect) others, even other Catholics, to stop using birth control. That doesn’t mean I will not or should not share my beliefs in the hopes that they will at least take it into consideration.

Peace
 
As I suggested in my post, being Jewish, I can more than appreciate 'we do all this stuff because this is what we do
For Catholics, I would change this sentence to, we do things not because it’s what “we” do, it’s because we have been taught what we should do.
far be it from me to criticize any Catholic following the practical consequences of the religion’s beliefs
We don’t follow our faith because it’s practical or convenient, in season or out of season, we follow it out of humble obedience.
  • on the other hand, I don’t expect people to keep Kosher.
When you say ‘people’ do you mean all people? I expect Catholics to follow the teachings of the church, whether convenient or inconvenvient, in season or out of season.
  • What people here are trying to get us to believe though - hence my hounding of Ed as the most voluble example - is that there has been/was/is some kind of conspiracy
There’s always been conspiracy in the world. People plotted to kill Jesus. You see, as Catholics, we know there’s two forces at work in the world, light and darkness. When you are in darkness, it’s very hard to see clearly. Ed and kage are pointing out that there have been people who are in darkness and they have ‘conspired’ (i.e. desired) to spread that darkness because they think they are right.

P.s. - give me some credit - I had to figure out how to break up your quote.
 
It is worth noting that you compare the conspiracy that I mentioned with Dan Brown’s fiction.
Yes, I have to admit it, I don’t think that the Catholic Church is the centre of all sorts of conspiracies to do all sorts of naughty things - some people may take this as entirely naïf on my part given the amount of what they probably consider ‘evidence’ of rampant worldwide naughtiness.

Now, despite all your suggestions about doctors and pharmaceuticals and so forth, it really doesn’t get around the fact that the reason people use contraceptives is not because of naughty conspiracies but because they don’t want continual pregnancies and large families - no more than than the purchase of cars is the result of a worldwide conspiracy of auto manufacturers rather than a desire of people to get around the place. People take the risks entailed in car travel in order to get around and women take the risks of contraceptives in order not to get pregnant and have large families - the purpose of the action taking priority over the risks involved.
 
There’s always been conspiracy in the world. People plotted to kill Jesus.
I have to hand it to you, that’s a pretty good way of ending all conversations with a Jewess.
 
I don’t buy the conspiracy theory really. Though many people and events as well as changing social attitudes have “conspired” to create our society’s current mess, I have real doubt about the idea that any such conspiracy was carefully planned or even intentional. However, I will say these two things: 1) the advent of widely available and reliable birth control has had very much the detrimental effects on society and the family that Pope Paul VI predicted would be likely in Humanae Vitae and 2) I am PERSONALLY much happier in both my marriage and with my health (body and soul) since I quit using it.
Now, that’s the kind of argument that Catholics make that seems to me to be entirely rational - whether one agrees with it or not - it’s an entirely sensible and understandable.
With that said, to your point about not having expectations that the rest of the world will keep kosher… I have no expectation at all that I can make (or expect) others, even other Catholics, to stop using birth control. That doesn’t mean I will not or should not share my beliefs in the hopes that they will at least take it into consideration.
Wait until next pre-Passover period when I’m moaning about obsessive cleaning! 🙂
 
You should read “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion” and then you will see where all the conspiracy theory comes from! :D:D:D:D
I was waiting for somebody to notice!
BTW I still do not understand why my mother never accepted my explanation: “I did not want to, but my sister made me do it!”
She came from a long line of mothers! 😃
 
Do you know what an exaggeration is? How about a red herring?

Name me one woman who is or has ever been contnually pregnant.

Where is this mythical creature?
 
Do you know what an exaggeration is? How about a red herring?

Name me one woman who is or has ever been contnually pregnant.

Where is this mythical creature?
Continually means in regular or repeated succession (unlike continuously which means ‘without interruption’) - perhaps these average fertility rates might illustrate current ‘repeated or regular succession’.

Of course, your definition of ‘repeated or regular succession’ may differ from mine.
 
Continually means in regular or repeated succession (unlike continuously which means ‘without interruption’) - perhaps these average fertility rates might illustrate current ‘repeated or regular succession’.

Of course, your definition of ‘repeated or regular succession’ may differ from mine.
Those rates show that women have babies. As that is a command given to Adam and Eve (as a jewess, you do believe in God, right?).

Are you now saying that women who have more than one child are contiunally pregnant?
 
Those rates show that women have babies. As that is a command given to Adam and Eve (as a jewess, you do believe in God, right?).

Are you now saying that women who have more than one child are contiunally pregnant?
I feel that you’ve been missing the point. I’ve not been talking about whether contraception is good or bad, I’ve been challenging the idea that contraception is part of some kind of supplier conspiracy rather than a voluntary, market decision based on a desire not to be continually pregnant and have lots of children.

I do have to say, by the way, that this conversation has a limited life. Tonight, we’re all off to Italy for a month.
 
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