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iamrefreshed
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Well it worked for you with “active measures”.
Active measures = discrimination based on sex or race.
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Active measures = discrimination based on sex or race.
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Rich_Olszewski
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My problem with your statement is the implication - as I see it - that there must be a choice between one with superior credentials and one who barely made the grade - the C- student over the A student. I don’t see that the spread is that great - more, IMO, of a spread between a B- student and a B+ student. It’s not as though a barely literate student or barely competent potential employee is being selected over a genius or over a man thoroughly knowledgeable about the job he is being considered for.
The problem with this back-and-forthing here, to me, is that no one is going to change their position. The instinct is always to hold fiercely to one’s position even if one sees some cracks in it.
Using sex or color as the bonus points to make up the difference in these two is still wrong. It not only is an injustice against the individual that has the higher grade, but it is a grave disservice to the individual that now has a grade that does not reflect their ability.
When I was in school, the teacher would offer us extra help if we wanted to improve our grade. We didn’t have to rely on our color or gender.
Not always.
Reasonable people respond to reasonable arguments.
We may never see it, or know it has happened, but the argument does bear weight among the readers of this thread, and hearts can and will be turned for it.
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Hastrman
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I’d say you’re probably right, in general, but there have been some scandals in affirmative action. Even if it’s not outright wrong it definitely needs major reform.
And I incline to agree as well RE: making converts, although (possibly because I have generalized anxiety disorder, which is like OCD without the compulsions) I tend to notice all the cracks in everything. It makes me irritating even (especially?) to people on my own side.
As in, I—who tend to be fairly economically conservative, tax-cuts, deregulation, etc.—have been involved in multiple flamewars, with conservatives, because I know Ayn Rand is fricking nuts.
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Rich_Olszewski
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Scott_Lafrance
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If I had to choose the economic models of Marx, Rand, or Keynes, I would take Rand every day of the week.If that’s what you believe about Rand, I know you can’t be all bad.
(Me, too!)
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Rich_Olszewski
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An ideal, but one not always achieved, even among the reasonable. We’re all human, after all.
Seriously, I agree.
But…you, to be sure, want their hearts to be turned one way, and I another.
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YoungTradCath
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Point is, any racial differentiation used whatsoever to instigate, support, or reaffirm special rights/privileges/help for one group over another is evil, completely, and without question. How can people support racist institutions in our government, educational system, and society at large? It’s ridiculous. People choose to ignore or forget that racism affects whites too, and that by virtue of their being the majority doesn’t exclude them from blatant prejudice. I can’t respect anyone who receives preferential treatment based on a distinguishing characteristic that they were born into. It’s sickening and despicable that affirmative action exists. How anyone could support an inherently backwards institution is beyond me.
I live in the dirty south, and from my short time (three years) of being here, I, a white male, have received more unwarranted disrespect because of my skin color than I’ve ever seen any minority be subject to. Of course, though, I’m automatically lying and whining, because I’m a white male, and everyone knows we can’t be discriminated against. Yeah, right…
If you don’t get where you’re at by your personal merits and work, and that only, then you don’t deserve to be there. I come from a pretty poor family, so I’m a minority in that sense, and I’ve made it, all on my own, and I never even gave a thought to using my disadvantaged socio-economic status as a reason to beg for gimmes. Never occurred to me. It’s wrong to offer these types of things at all, and it’s just as wrong to accept them.
I live in the dirty south, and from my short time (three years) of being here, I, a white male, have received more unwarranted disrespect because of my skin color than I’ve ever seen any minority be subject to. Of course, though, I’m automatically lying and whining, because I’m a white male, and everyone knows we can’t be discriminated against. Yeah, right…
If you don’t get where you’re at by your personal merits and work, and that only, then you don’t deserve to be there. I come from a pretty poor family, so I’m a minority in that sense, and I’ve made it, all on my own, and I never even gave a thought to using my disadvantaged socio-economic status as a reason to beg for gimmes. Never occurred to me. It’s wrong to offer these types of things at all, and it’s just as wrong to accept them.
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Hastrman
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As would I, except that her argument for it is based on flawed and immoral logic, “the virtue of selfishness”. She was too stupid—literally, the woman’s brain wasn’t fit for a dog—to understand that the goodness of the self does not mean the self is the only or highest good. She was also unaware that Christianity considers simplistic altruism immoral, and always has.
Also she did not, as all principled economic conservatives and Libertarians do, say that private charity should be what helps the poor, rather than the welfare state. She thought private charity was immoral, because she thought the poor deserved to starve in the gutter.
One can make much better cases for economic conservatism than that hell-sent monster did. Buckley, von Hayek, Friedman—all give you a basis for economic conservatism far more morally responsible than Rand’s. She offers nothing unique that is also valuable, therefore why bother with her?
And thank you for illustrating my point. Rand, Keynes, and Marx are not the only systems on offer; there are hundreds, including the three I just named, and I can think of several that haven’t been tried for a while. But you assume that if I say “I would not consider supporting this person advantageous to your position”, that I mean “I support the opposing position”!
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Scott_Lafrance
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How many books have you published and had made into movies?
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Hastrman
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Fewer than Rand…who’s done fewer of both than the way-the-hell-and-gone left-wing Stephen King.How many books have you published and had made into movies?
Did you have a point, cupcake?
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bbarrick8383
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Hastrman
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Ayn Rand made the “fetus is only a potential life” argument in favor of abortion.
As if that wasn’t bad enough, she claimed to be an Aristotelian. Aristotle, the originator of the idea of potential-vs-actual, also pointed out that any existent thing that is a potential X, must be an actual Y. If a fetus is only potentially a human life, what is it actually?
She was a slackjawed lackwit.
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bbarrick8383
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I’m not defending Rand’s obvious failures in her logic.
According to a press release from the Ayn Rand Institute, over 7 million copies had been sold by the US publishers as of January 2010, with sales in 2009 along being over 500,000 copies.
Not bad for a slack jawed lackwit there cupcake. Not everyone can be as smurt as you ya know.
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stinkcat_14
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Are you saying that discrimination is not racism?
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Hastrman
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No, actually, according to my IQ test 96% of the population is not as smart as me.
And how is being able to convince 7 million other lackwits to buy her drivelling evidence she wasn’t a lackwit?
See Barnum, P. T., on the financial consequences, or rather lack thereof, of understimating the public intellect.
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Hastrman
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Some people have specified that racism must be “by the dominant race in a community”, but that’s far from being the most common definition.
Most people consider “racism” to mean “discrimination based on race” which, uh, affirmative action is.
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bbarrick8383
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My apologies fine fellow, I hope I did not offend. I had no idea I was in the presence of genius. not that i really care
Everyone can sell 7 million books. Piece of cake, I should have known better. I will just agree with you from now on. Those 7 million lack wits most likely didn’t buy the book for the sake of their own interests. They must be greater lack wits than the author to buy such junk.
Whatever you say most intelligent one, I’m not even going to bother looking it up.
BTW, with such a high IQ, you may want to study some fairly basic spelling and grammar.
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Hastrman
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Just pointing out, actually, yeah, I am in fact just that smart. I don’t even care, and you can get the hell over yourself, but when I act like I’m smart it’s because I am.
Know what sells far better than Rand books? Porn.
Plainly porn is of more value than Rand, and Rand is of more value than, e.g., Aquinas.
You serious? You should just know that one. “Nobody ever lost money underestimating the intelligence of the American people.”
Name one error I’ve made on that front.
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Hastrman
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I’m curious, are you actually concerned to pretend that Rand and her followers are not fallacious, irrational, and simply mistaken?
The number of copies a book sells implies nothing other than that people want it. In general, the fact people want to here a message is not an indicator that that message is intelligent, rational, or correct—but only that it serves their purposes.
Not to invoke Godwin’s Law but Mein Kampf sold over 10 million copies by the end of the war—less than a fifth as long as Rand’s works have been in print. What bearing, whatsoever, does that have on the value of Nazism as an intellectual movement, or Hitler as a thinker?
The number of copies a book sells implies nothing other than that people want it. In general, the fact people want to here a message is not an indicator that that message is intelligent, rational, or correct—but only that it serves their purposes.
Not to invoke Godwin’s Law but Mein Kampf sold over 10 million copies by the end of the war—less than a fifth as long as Rand’s works have been in print. What bearing, whatsoever, does that have on the value of Nazism as an intellectual movement, or Hitler as a thinker?
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