Controversy erupts over Campus Republicans bake sale plans

[rlg94086]

Why do you feel it isn’t an unfair advantage for Native Americans to have their entire education paid for by the state? Wouldn’t this fit into the conservative definition of “racism or discrimination” posited in this thread?

Nope. The Native Americans you mentioned grew up on reservations and you are talking about free education at public colleges. This is to address economic issues. Do they have lower academic requirements for admittance based on their race? If so, I’m opposed to that.

 

[bbarrick8383]

A black child growing up with an incarcerated father and drug addicted mother should not receive benefits a white child growing up in the same household environment would not also get.

A black child growing up in a poor household with both parents should not get benefits a white child growing up in the same household environment would not also get.

A black child growing up in a middle class home should not get benefits a white child growing up in the same household environment would not also get.

The same goes for a rich black child and a white black child.

If you disagree with these statements based on race, you are a racist.

 

[rlg94086]

But just as affirmative action isn’t intended to solve the problem of poverty, neither is affirmative action intended to solve any of those other causes: it’s designed to address the social disparity between races.

To repeat myself:

Fixing racial inequities in universities by discriminating based on race is ludicrous. It would be no different than setting a lower bar for prosecution of white defendants, so we can equal out the inequities in the prison population.

You fix the inequities by going to the root of the problem.

As I said before, Affirmative Action is the lazy way out. You basically look at the disparity in numbers and “fix” it by lowering the bar to get the numbers up. It may make the numbers look better and be self-satisfying for the liberal in favor of such policies, but it really doesn’t get at the root of the problem.

 

[YoungTradCath]

A black child growing up with an incarcerated father and drug addicted mother should not receive benefits a white child growing up in the same household environment would not also get.

A black child growing up in a poor household with both parents should not get benefits a white child growing up in the same household environment would not also get.

A black child growing up in a middle class home should not get benefits a white child growing up in the same household environment would not also get.

The same goes for a rich black child and a white black child.

If you disagree with these statements based on race, you are a racist.

Exactly. I’m a white guy. Part of my childhood was spent in a household in which my father drank every day and did cocaine. I moved on from that, and didn’t let it get the best of me, but I was still stuck in a single-parent situation in which my mother was a hairstylist. Not a very high-paying job. But, I always was the competitive, go-getter type. And look where it’s landed me: I’m well on my way to becoming a military officer, and nothing’s in my path that can stop me so far. Never once in my life did I ask for, accept or receive anything based upon anything other than my own merit; in fact, I was oblivious that this kind of scum existed until I was into my teenage years. I never cried the “poor underprivileged boy” argument, even though I was (and still am) a poor, underprivileged boy compared to my compadre cadets, and even though it probably would have helped me get where I’m at a little easier, because I was too proud to do so and unwilling to accept the inherent shame that comes along with crying your way to the top.

 

[bbarrick8383]

Exactly. I’m a white guy. Part of my childhood was spent in a household in which my father drank every day and did cocaine. I moved on from that, but I was still stuck in a single-parent situation in which my mother was a hairstylist. Not a very high-paying job. But, I always was the competitive, go-getter type. And look where it’s landed me: I’m well on my way to becoming a military officer, and nothing’s in my path that can stop me so far. Never once in my life did I ask for, accept or receive anything based upon anything other than my own merit; in fact, I was oblivious that this kind of scummy **** existed until I was into my teenage years.

Amen brother.

My father was in a similar situation. He had a good dad, but died of a heart attack after some severe naval battles and left him to take care of 7 other children. My father achieved the American dream through his own blood sweat and tears. I couldn’t be more proud of him and one day your children will look up to you the same way if you wish.

 

[YoungTradCath]

Amen brother.

My father was in a similar situation. He had a good dad, but died of a heart attack after some severe naval battles and left him to take care of 7 other children. My father achieved the American dream through his own blood sweat and tears. I couldn’t be more proud of him and one day your children will look up to you the same way if you wish.

Yep. Work hard, get where you want to be.

 

[vz71]

Great post! I wouldn’t hold your breath in anyone here getting what you are saying though.

Perhaps because we all know you cannot correct an injustice with more injustice.

 

[Darryl1958]

Perhaps because we all know you cannot correct an injustice with more injustice.

Moreover, it increases social injustice by implying that certain identifiable groups are more and less capable than others. It demeans people by selectively lowering the bar for them in a patronizing way.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

Great post! I wouldn’t hold your breath in anyone here getting what you are saying though.

Perhaps this is a related question for Conservatives here. In most states (all states?) Those of Native Americans who grew up on reservations can have a free college education at a public University. Would you support this? I’m guessing not but still felt like asking.

I had a free under-graduate and graduate education because I am legally blind. Would you be in favor of this? I’m guessing not here as well, but anyways. . . . .

I will say that spending time on CAF politics has really solidified my decision to never vote for a Conservative, unless their ideas are COMPLETELY different from those I read here.

Well, conservatives - generally represented by the republican party - have always stood against racism. Its own founder - Abraham Lincoln, shows that.

So yes, if you agree that racism and racial segregation and judgments made on people “based on the color of their skin rather than the content of their character” (MLK) is a good thing, then conservatism isn’t for you.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

But, Christ did not say that we are free to disobey the laws of the world or not be tied to them while we are in this world. “Render unto Caesar…”

The Church does teach that we are free to disobey laws that are immoral.

 

[Darryl1958]

Well, conservatives - generally represented by the republican party - have always stood against racism. Its own founder - Abraham Lincoln, shows that.

So yes, if you agree that racism and racial segregation and judgments made on people “based on the color of their skin rather than the content of their character” (MLK) is a good thing, then conservatism isn’t for you.

Conservatism isn’t for everybody that’s for sure. If it is watered down with a policy of racism it si not something that I would want to support.

 

[iamrefreshed]

Affirmative Action is just another program for Democrats to oppress minorities and pander for their votes.

For every little black girl who enters college with sub-par grades due to AA, Democrats help hundreds of black girls murder their own children and call it ‘Family Planning’.

For every Hispanic patrolman who is promoted to Sargeant with lower scores than his counterparts, Democracts hand our free needles to hundreds of Hispanic men strung out on drugs.

For every government job handed to an unqualified Native American, Democrats hand out thousands of welfare checks that keep these folks from advancing themselves into gainful employment as they become dependent on handouts.

Democrats have their boot firmly planted on the necks of minorities. They do however release the boot at election time to drive said minorities to the voting booth.

It is nothing more than a voting block. Party before humanity.

 

[Darryl1958]

Identity politics institutionalizes racism by ensuring that the primary identity of the individual is always the racial one.
Herman Caine notes the brainwashing factor where even the ideas in your head are determined by the color of your skin.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

“If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem, but the perpetual human predicament is that the answer soon poses its own problems.”

The rightists on this thread want Affirmative Action abolished - (which will never happen IMO) - but, if they were to manage that feat, they are guaranteeing that the GOP will be the White People’s Party leaving the Democratic Party as the party of all the rest of us.

Why? The outrage in the black community will guarantee that almost no blacks will favor that abolition, even if they personally have never had to rely on AA, and that outrage will take away what votes the GOP gets from them. The same for Hispanics and any other group “of color.”

This is NOT to say that the GOP won’t win elections, but it’ll have to be exclusively via white votes.

The rightist answer to the problem would indeed pose its own problems, very possibly greater than the “unfairness” in Affirmative Action. My opinion.

 

[vz71]

The rightists on this thread want Affirmative Action abolished - (which will never happen IMO) - but, if they were to manage that feat, they are guaranteeing that the GOP will be the White People’s Party leaving the Democratic Party as the party of all the rest of us.

I have heard a number of people call for changing it to not include unjust discrimination.
But I must have missed the part of eliminating it completely.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

The Church does teach that we are free to disobey laws that are immoral.

The rub is deciding what laws are immoral. The immorality may not be obvious.

 

[bbarrick8383]

“If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem, but the perpetual human predicament is that the answer soon poses its own problems.”

The rightists on this thread want Affirmative Action abolished - (which will never happen IMO) - but, if they were to manage that feat, they are guaranteeing that the GOP will be the White People’s Party leaving the Democratic Party as the party of all the rest of us.

Why? The outrage in the black community will guarantee that almost no blacks will favor that abolition, even if they personally have never had to rely on AA, and that outrage will take away what votes the GOP gets from them. The same for Hispanics and any other group “of color.”

This is NOT to say that the GOP won’t win elections, but it’ll have to be exclusively via white votes.

The rightist answer to the problem would indeed pose its own problems, very possibly greater than the “unfairness” in Affirmative Action. My opinion.

Rich, as always I respect you opinion but greatly disagree.

Legislating based on skin color is discriminating based on skin color. It makes a liberal no better than those you were so against in the 60’s.

You could have said all that you have said in a couple of sentences:

AA is a third rail issue for the Republicans.

We democrats know how to use AA for votes.

Herman Cain grew up poor and felt he had achieved the American Dream by making 20,000 dollars a year as a mathematician for the military.

He did not use his skin color as an excuse and thankfully he didn’t listen to liberals who told him he should use his skin color as an excuse.

 

[rlg94086]

“If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem, but the perpetual human predicament is that the answer soon poses its own problems.”

The rightists on this thread want Affirmative Action abolished - (which will never happen IMO) - but, if they were to manage that feat, they are guaranteeing that the GOP will be the White People’s Party leaving the Democratic Party as the party of all the rest of us.

Why? The outrage in the black community will guarantee that almost no blacks will favor that abolition, even if they personally have never had to rely on AA, and that outrage will take away what votes the GOP gets from them. The same for Hispanics and any other group “of color.”

This is NOT to say that the GOP won’t win elections, but it’ll have to be exclusively via white votes.

So, you, as great white protector, have determined that people of color will be outraged because they all think the same way?
Rich Olszewski:

The rightist answer to the problem would indeed pose its own problems, very possibly greater than the “unfairness” in Affirmative Action. My opinion.

What is your opinion based on - general despite of rightists, or do you have a logical conclusion based on the recommendations of conservatives on this thread?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

To make up for past injustices to the people of a race denied opportunities because of their color. That’s precisely how I see it. You don’t? Fine.

You don’t fix a wrong to a person or group of persons that happened in the past by wronging people in the present, especially when some (if not most) of those people had nothing to do with the original wrong.

As my father always told me, two wrongs don’t make a right, but three lefts do.

This is common sense which seems to be missing from all sides in the political discourse.

 

[rlg94086]

You don’t fix a wrong to a person or group of persons that happened in the past by wronging people in the present, especially when some (if not most) of those people had nothing to do with the original wrong.

As my father always told me, two wrongs don’t make a right, but three lefts do.

This is common sense which seems to be missing from all sides in the political discourse.

For some people, garnering votes is more important than doing what is right.