Convert or die

  • Thread starter Thread starter Derrickdcosta
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One more write up

• 5 big parish churches and 50 smaller churches have been either attacked or destroyed by the right-wing fanatics. Also, six convents, thre presbyteries, six hostels, two minor seminaries, one vocational training centre and one leprosy centre of the Church have also been destroyed or attacked by the Sangh Privar members. The burning of medical centre and hostels speak of a criminal disregard for humanity and the welfare of the people.

• Nine people were killed and 400 houses gutted in these attacks. This is the biggest recorded case of such alleged number of Christian houses burnt.

• This is the first time in history since Independence that maybe 3,000 Christian, men, women and children are forced to live in two refugee camps, eating boiled rice not fit for human consumption because of the quality of sand and grit, and living in the cold with no toilets, precious little medical care and no woollens.

The irony is not lost. In the Super Cyclone and other natural disasters that devastated the state of Orissa in the past, Christian NGOs and Church groups were almost always the first to set up relief camps and rehabilitation projects for the common people irrespective of the consideration of religion and ethnic identity.

• In certain villages where the male members of the family are staying in the jungle, the officials are demanding the female members to bring their husbands else they would receive relief materials. In the other hand, when the male members come to the camp from the jungle, the police are booking them on false cases and arresting them.

• The Christian community and its institutions were targeted for more than 48 hours with the police looking on, and being physically present at the spot in many cases.

It is beyond doubt that the violence was premeditated, preplanned and the work of a well-disciplined group to ensure simultaneous eruption across the Kandhamala district within hours of the first incident, and to sustain it for five days despite the presence of the highest police officers in the region. It is clear the main attackers were the upper caste.

• Church buildings are broken, nuns manhandled, priests chased away, convent cows killed and their straw set afire. These are heinous crimes. The ravishing of statues of Mary, grinding her face under foot till nothing remains but shreds, desecrating the Host, and vandalizing of ritual holy material before setting everything on fire speaks of diabolic hatred. The vent poses an immediate threatto the ideals of secularism and freedom of faith, the right to life and the right to dignity enshrined in the constitution of India.

• The conclusion from the facts of the Fact Finding Team is that this is “a tragedy that was waiting to happen and a tragedy that could repeat itself.” Orissa has an unhappy history of recorded and unrecorded persecution of Christians, including the burning alive of Australian leprosy mission worker Graham Stuart Staines and his sons, Phillp and Timothy, and Fr. Arul in 1999, attacks in the Rakia block of the Kandhamal.

• In one of the villages, Hindu extremists forced Christians to say, “We became Hindu” and gave them a paper to sign the conversion.

• Nuns of two convents were stripped naked and paraded in the market too.

• Seven Christian girls, ninth grade students of a boarding school are missing.

The grief is unspeakable, the violence seems mindless. Yet, this is a moment that demands a response from each of us. We cannot entertain revenge or helplessness or despair. We need to take on the response we see at Calvary.
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Hi,

are there any groups in the national government or opposition that are sympathetic ?

Does the vatican have good relations with the Indian government ?

What are the reasons for the violence ? How does the conversions affect the non Christian population ?
 
abucs said:
Hi,

are there any groups in the national government or opposition that are sympathetic ?

Does the vatican have good relations with the Indian government ?

What are the reasons for the violence ? How does the conversions affect the non Christian population ?
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Thanks for the response and God bless.
To answer your question will require me to enter the politics of the Indian subcontinent which the British started with the successful policy of “Divide and rule”. It consists of favouring one partiucular community by providing special privileges.
Post independence many politicians decided to carve out their own political bases, most of which occurred without violence, by dividing society into backward castes (or tribes) or on religious grounds or on a caste grouping using the same concept of favouring particular populations.
The success of a particular party namely the BJP in Gujarat after a successful genocide of Muslims has forced the main opposition party to start a similar campaign against the Christian minority which would help them as the Christians at 2.4% of the population are not a significant poliical base.Their ideological masters (the RSS and sangh parivar offshoots) demonise the Christian religion by exaggerating our numbers and making a large number of false statements. As most educated christians are aware Christians do not and cannot forcefully convert anyone to Christianity, but this is exactly the canard these organisations succesfully propagate. The west believes the untruths spread by the Government of India regarding secular governance which today does not ensure freedom from genoicide.
 
abucs said:
Hi,

are there any groups in the national government or opposition that are sympathetic ?

Does the vatican have good relations with the Indian government ?

What are the reasons for the violence ? How does the conversions affect the non Christian population ?
Click to expand...
To answer your other questions is the national party sympathethic? yes, but will not do anything as it is in the vote gaining game as well and does not wish to create a negative impression in the Hindu electorate, so they will happily or unhappily allow it to continue. Bear in mind also that the national or international media have barely given any coverage whatsoever and when any coverage was in fact given the small peaceloving christian community was vilified for conversions.
The vatican has good relations with the indian government, but look at the names of the online petition (petitiononline.com/orissa/petition.html) not a single cardinal Indian or foreign.
So I must imagine that they are not aware of the situation sufficiently.
The last question I will answer in another post.
 
abucs said:
Hi,

What are the reasons for the violence ? How does the conversions affect the non Christian population ?
Click to expand...
The principal reasons for violence is the success of the missionary activity, which is also a consequence of the terrible treatment meted out to low caste groups in India by the Hindus. You can read about the caste structure elsewhere. The low caste groups when treated in a humane manner by missionaries try to become Christians to escape the inhumane part of Hinduism (there are several positive aspects which unfortunately I am not mentioning about the Hindu faith but this is a part which is well known) and also because of experiencing God’s love in the form of social services the Catholics and here I must give credit to the baptists and pentecostals as well. Now does it hurt the local populations yes, it will, and will that hurt translate into anger yes, but will it transform into violence, no, if and only if it is supported by logistics and assured of government support and immunity from prosecution.
I will try to expand on this a little later but for now I will say that no one can be prevented from converting to a religion which promises that you will be equal and treated like a human, because a human cannot be suppressed forever.
 
I hope you’re right there with your last comment Derrickdcosta.
I would be interested to know what forms the abuse towards ‘lower’ castes take and whether with the conversions of the ‘lower’ castes the situation might have improved in the Hindu community towards Hindu ‘lower’ castes in general that haven’t converted ?

I understand a lot of the injustice is to do with employment prospects and i’d guess that government spending might favour other groups ? With democracy, would not this group have a certain strength to change things ?

Just asking. I was in India for only 2 weeks as a tourist so didn’t see the reality of such things as a resident does.

I would also be interested to hear on the positive aspects of Hinduism, although of course the terrible things you mention have extreme importance.
 
abucs said:
I hope you’re right there with your last comment Derrickdcosta.
I would be interested to know what forms the abuse towards ‘lower’ castes take and whether with the conversions of the ‘lower’ castes the situation might have improved in the Hindu community towards Hindu ‘lower’ castes in general that haven’t converted ?.
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Thanks again and God bless.
It is very difficult to make a case that the treatment of the African American community is similar to the treatment meted out to the lower castes, as the abuse was and to a large extent still is social, psychological and economic. Again it is difficult for me to put myself in their shoes as I was brought up in a catholic goan family which was originally from the highest caste of the Hindus and in any case in Goa and Mumbai where my family shifted there was no discrimination by the Portuguese republic and only a little when the Indian government took over and even that between the hindus, muslims, sikhs and christians in terms of their groups. Socially though when you are treated as a non human and not given dignity as a human you will try to escape the system that treats you that way. That said you can research over the internet as to the various forms this discrimination takes. The situation in the Hindu community has improved due to demacracy and the rise of political parties raising the issues of these backward groups. Affirmative action by the Indian government ensure that jobs are reserved for these communities. However, the prejudice and psychological oppression does continue in a milder form. Once you are a convert though you are technically out of this system and while the government immediately discriminates against you in terms of reserved jobs, the church organisations support the individuals, with some promise of education and thereby empowerment.
 
abucs said:
I would also be interested to hear on the positive aspects of Hinduism, although of course the terrible things you mention have extreme importance.
Click to expand...
As far Hinduism is concerned this recent violence has no mandate in their religion, but there is a large element of hypocrisy as there often is when it comes down to practice. In hinduism spirituality, detachment and love of God are given a pre-eminent role. I would like to add that in terms of ethics contained in their spiritual books such as the Bhagwad Gita, the Vedas and the Upanishads there is much that will cause us to admire them. You may or may not have heard that Mahatma Gandhi who was assasinated by the very groups responsible for the violence mentioned was an apostle of non-violence “Ahinsa parmo dharma” which means simply that non-violence (“no harm” is even more accurate) is the highest religion. The non-violent resistance is part of Indian history and also in America what was adopted by the Late Martin Luther King. However the groups such as the RSS, the Bajrang Dal take their ideological support from literature following the model adopted by Adolf Hitler ("Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer (“One people, one Reich, one leader”).
Now it is debatable how successfully the Indian Hindu population can be mobilised, but this it must be remembered if we take the foundation of these groups in the 30’s is over 70 years in terms of propaganda, so such a steady stream of propaganda will take effect no matter how it contrasts with the tenets of Hinduism.
Hope that I have helped.
 
Derrickdcosta said:
Dear Riley
It is much more so because even the media is pushing a one sided issue, as Christians are a small peace loving minority in India, they are denied legal redress and fair media coverage and for the first time after independence in 1947 exposed to the whole wrath of Hindu fanaticism, this movement has become one of organised violence with funding received from the Indian diaspora settled in various European countries and even in the States.
The moderator of my web group has put these images out if you are interested, kindly do persevere in prayer.:blessyou:
“It has been very difficult to get any first hand information from Orissa because of the restrictions on entry placed there. But there have been some photos circulating by email which I have gathered and uploaded on the KC Gallery ( konkanicatholics.fotopic.net/c1446886.html ) so that all of you can have a look at what is going on.”
Believe me there is no coverage in the media as the attacked Christian were of a poorer caste who converted to Christianity (there are a unusually high proportion of baptists and pentecostals though the photos are mainly concentrated on the Catholic institutions)
God bless
Derrick
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It is also funded by the USA in their support of sending jobs from here to there and giving them tax breaks to do so.:mad:
 
KathleenElsie said:
It is also funded by the USA in their support of sending jobs from here to there and giving them tax breaks to do so.:mad:
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Thanks for this very important point and thank you for your concern. Economically these groups are supported directly by contributions made to the following violent organisations much of which directly from the USA, and not only by way of outsourcing (I will do so in another mail):
The Vishwa Hindu parishad or (World Hindu Council)
The RSS (a volunteer group the ideological head of the hate organisations) and its offshoots the Bajrang Dal (the hanuman Army) and other splinter groups affiliated to and funded by this organisation.
 
KathleenElsie said:
It is also funded by the USA in their support of sending jobs from here to there and giving them tax breaks to do so.:mad:
Click to expand...
Now to come to your point the recession in America was caused by the Federal Reserve which printed way too much currency, thereby increasing money supply. If Alan Greenspan acted responsibly this crisis in America could have been prevented, and you are quite correct in saying that increased money supply caused outsourcing to India and excessive consumption from China.
Now to kill people and destroy close to 90 churches, and fell 2000 trees in 2 nights means not only organised planning (with connivance from the government) but also a lot of funding and here the factors mentioned by you are at best an indirect cause and truthfully speaking the contributions from Indians in America and elsewhere to the organisations earlier mentioned would have partly funded this attack.
 
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