Coptic Orthodox coming into communion with St Peter

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josie_L said:
Well, no matter how many may view you as a traitor there are many more (1billion plus) who donā€™t. :console:
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At The end of the day, im not accountable to them but God. Lord let them be one, just as you and I are one.
 
Peter_J said:
Thank you for sharing that, Josie L. Is he, or she, reading this thread?
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I donā€™t believe so, i.e., heā€™s a person I met through someone I knew.

P.S. He was, in his former life, involved in the mafia, i.e., he killed someone while in the mob and served time, and then by the grace of God transformed his life and became a pastor.

P.P.S My experience with him was bittersweet, i.e., he attempted to debate/argue against church teaching (I was the only Catholic), but the anti-Catholic comments were getting so bad that I had to stand up and tell them I was leaving. It was at this point that he recognized how uncharitable he had been, and asked for my forgiveness (he cried when I accepted his apology), and forthwith included me in a group prayer wherein he asked for humility and unity among Christians! Iā€™ve met him a couple of times thereafter because his church happens to be right next to my house! :eek:
 
jimmy said:
I responded to your earlier question that I would feel it would be more honest if they did start rebaptizing all noncatholics because we all know that extra ecclesiam nulla salus is still the teaching of the CC. I wouldnā€™t agree with it, but it would be more honest. But I am not fully in the bag with any side of the argument between the various eastern churches and the west. So my opinion matters very little.
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Yes, the CC still teaches extra ecclesiam nulla salus, but what does that mean, i.e., according to the early Church it did not mean re-baptizing all converts? :cool:
 
josie_L said:
Why should you find it interesting, I.e., is this the first time you encounter an Orthodox who has converted to Catholicism?
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It is one of the first, if not the first. As dzheremi stated it is uncommon, and I myself have met many more converts from Catholicism to Orthodoxy. The ratio is likely close to 100 to 1. If it is any consolation I do not see the OP as a traitor, but as mistaken, and I can relate to how he feels. When I left the RCC there were some who expressed their disappointment with my decision.
 
truthseeker32 said:
It is one of the first, if not the first. As dzheremi stated it is uncommon, and I myself have met many more converts from Catholicism to Orthodoxy. The ratio is likely close to 100 to 1. If it is any consolation I do not see the OP as a traitor, but as mistaken, and I can relate to how he feels. When I left the RCC there were some who expressed their disappointment with my decision.
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Itā€™s not uncommon, but it is not as ā€œcommonā€ as Catholics converting to Orthodoxy (there are also Catholics who converted to Orthodoxy and then reverted back to Catholicism), although there are more Catholics who convert to Protestantism (I have met quite a few Orthodox who have either converted to Protestantism and/or Catholicism).
 
truthseeker32 said:
If it is any consolation I do not see the OP as a traitor, but as mistaken, and I can relate to how he feels.
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Iā€™m glad you said that. Thatā€™s pretty much my general stance toward people, like yourself, who leave Catholicism for Eastern Orthodoxy, or Oriental Orthodoxy, or Anglicanism, or Lutheranism, or Methodism etc etc. (Well, to the extent that one can even have a general stance on that matter ā€“ itā€™s highly individual.) šŸ™‚
 
I think ā€œtraitorā€ is an incredibly harsh word to use in this context. I, like Truthseeker32, believe the OP to have made a mistake in converting from Orthodoxy to Catholicism, but at the same time my former co-religionists in the RCC also believe me to have made a mistake in having converted to Orthodoxy from Catholicism (and have not been shy in telling me so, including in some incidents on this very message board). It comes with the territory, yā€™know? I donā€™t wish the OP or anyone any ill will on account of their decisions (or for any other reason), but simply continue to hold the belief that conversion from Orthodoxy is wrong, while conversion to Orthodoxy is right. And of course there have been Orthodox who have become Catholics who return to Orthodoxy in repentance, such as Anba Athanasius of Jerusalem (a particularly relevant example for the OP, as this was the first Coptic bishop to leave the Orthodox Church to become Catholic, though he later returned, leaving others to eventually fill the vacancy in the newly-created Coptic Catholic Church). People make all kinds of moves in their lives. šŸ¤· The Coptic Catholic Church remains small because it is relatively new and not very attractive to Copts, for whatever reason. (They seem to like most other things Rome-ish: pastrami, bechamel, etc. Maybe Catholics need to start evangelizing from the kitchen.)
 
dzheremi said:
The Coptic Catholic Church remains small because it is relatively new and not very attractive to Copts, for whatever reason.
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Perhaps most Coptic Orthodox are just happy staying Coptic Orthodox. šŸ™‚

P.S. Then again, it also depends on what you call small. ā€œSmallā€ makes me think of the Anglican Ordinariates ā€“ whose membership is a small fraction of the CCCā€™s 163,630. (The difference, I believe, can be attributed to the fact that they are much newer than even the CCC. Itā€™s certainly not reflective of encouragement (and Iā€™m somewhat hesitant to even use that word) because we Catholics are much more reluctant to encourage an Orthodox to convert to Catholicism than to encourage an Anglican to do so.)
 
Peter_J said:
Perhaps most Coptic Orthodox are just happy staying Coptic Orthodox. šŸ™‚
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Well, yes, I would think that is the primary reason.
P.S. Then again, it also depends on what you call small. ā€œSmallā€ makes me think of the Anglican Ordinariates ā€“ whose membership is a small fraction of the CCCā€™s 163,630. (The difference, I believe, can be attributed to the fact that they are much newer than even the CCC. Itā€™s certainly not reflective of encouragement (and Iā€™m somewhat hesitant to even use that word) because we Catholics are much more reluctant to encourage an Orthodox to convert to Catholicism than to encourage an Anglican to do so.)
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I mean small relative to the sizes of other Eastern Catholic churches, among which the CCC does not qualify within the top ten according to the numbers in this thread provided by poster German Melkite. Arranged according to size, the Coptic Catholic Church would be 13th out of the 22 Eastern/Oriental Catholic churches (though of course one could argue that once you get past the top 5 the numbers decrease dramatically, so it kinda doesnā€™t matterā€¦every Eastern Catholic Church is small compared to the top 3, and all of them together are small compared to the Latin, soā€¦).


  1. *]Ukrainian 5,160,000
    *]Syro-Malabar 3,886,000
    *]Maronite 3,220,000
    *]Melkite Greek 1,252,000
    *]Romanian 1,119,000
    *]Ruthenian 533,000
    *]Armenian 363,000
    *]Syro-Malankar 327,000
    *]Chaldean 304,000
    *]Hungarian 282,000
    *]Slovakian 222,000
    *]Ethiopian 203,000
    *]Coptic 197,000
    *]Syrian 138,000
    *]Byelorussian 105,000
    *]Italo-Albanian 64,000
    *]Croatian 49,000
    *]Bulgarian 15,000
    *]Georgian 5,000
    *]Russian 3,500
    *]Greek 2,000
    *]Albanian 1000
 
Am I losing my marbles or is there an amalgamation of posts from two threads, i.e., someone rearranged this thread to include the posts from another thread??? :whacky:
 
dzheremi said:
I mean small relative to the sizes of other Eastern Catholic churches, among which the CCC does not qualify within the top ten according to the numbers in this thread provided by poster German Melkite.
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Yes, thereā€™s no denying that some of the Catholic Churches are quite large. One factor in that, of course, was the enormous ā€œsuccessā€ of the Union of Brest. (I think youā€™ve heard me before on the sad events of the UoB, so I wonā€™t rehash all that now.) Of course, it should also be born in mind that there have been widely varying situations ā€“ for example, some of the larger Catholic Churches were not formed by Orthodox-to-Catholic proselytizing.
 
Yeah they merged I am now officially ukrainian with this thread, which is a little confusing
 
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