Emeraldlady
New member
I’m no scientist but trust that the work of science community around the world will be fruitful. Even a century ago they found the vaccine for Spanish flu.
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Jeanne_S
Guest
I hope you’re right
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Maximus1
Guest
They draft the young for war for a reason. That reason is what I read into your post. The only suspense is watching to see if you can keep a strait face
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Maximus1
Guest
Then what? Superpowers can become vulnerable.
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7_Sorrows
Guest
No, I read somewhere else it was 3. something for the global mortality.
Yours shows U.S. deaths.
It all depends on the numbers so we will probably find different death tolls.
Yours shows U.S. deaths.
It all depends on the numbers so we will probably find different death tolls.
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7_Sorrows
Guest
I read that out of the last 3 flu pandemics in the 20th century the 1957 virus was the weakest.
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Zzyzx_Road
Guest
The hospital will not save your life if it isn’t there anymore.
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Zzyzx_Road
Guest
First, the CDC estimates about 100,000 dead in the US in the 1968 flu pandemic out of a population of 205m. So not as bad wrt absolute number of deaths, let alone deaths as a percentage of the population as 1957. No wonder my grandmother doesn’t remember this one much either. Now I can’t speak for the rest of the world, but that is the US picture for 1957 and 1968.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1968-pandemic.html
Second, as a percentage of the population, Covid-19 would have to get up to 215,000 deaths before exceeding the deaths as a percentage of the population in 1957. Not saying it can’t do that. Just saying quite a contrast between our respective reactions that year and this year. Heck, as late as 2009 and 2018, we were not reacting to potential flu pandemics with widespread shutdowns.
Emeraldlady
New member
I’m still baffled by this logic when I see its conclusions. The US is 74,000 dead with the lockdowns and only perhaps halfway through the virus cycle. You can’t compare that “with lockdown” figure with a previous “no lock down figure”, to make the case that lock down doesn’t work?
Some other factors. If your grandmother lived in a rural area, the disease was much less prevalent because travel and social movement where less than today. Factor in also because that was the height of Cold War relations with Russia, there was a high degree of information control at play so that the US didn’t look vulnerable to it’s Cold War enemy.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
Some things that needs to be remembered about the flu in comparing it to Covid19 are:
First, about half the population in the U.S. is vaccinated for the flu, which does have some utility for those who get vaccinated, and also with regard to “herd immunity”. Without it, the flu numbers would be much worse.
Second, the U.S. is the third largest nation after China and India. China’s numbers certainly can’t be believed, and shouldn’t be. One does need to question India’s as well, since much of India is very primitive and without much in the way of medical resources in much of the country. Part of my wife’s job is to train CNAs, many of whom are foreign, mostly from India and Africa. When they go back (which remarkably most do) they are the de facto “doctors” in much of their countries.
First, about half the population in the U.S. is vaccinated for the flu, which does have some utility for those who get vaccinated, and also with regard to “herd immunity”. Without it, the flu numbers would be much worse.
Second, the U.S. is the third largest nation after China and India. China’s numbers certainly can’t be believed, and shouldn’t be. One does need to question India’s as well, since much of India is very primitive and without much in the way of medical resources in much of the country. Part of my wife’s job is to train CNAs, many of whom are foreign, mostly from India and Africa. When they go back (which remarkably most do) they are the de facto “doctors” in much of their countries.
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Zzyzx_Road
Guest
Maybe not, but what is going on here when one studies complete statistics for states like MA that make them all public is this:
For the under 50 set, the death toll is much closer to the 1957 and 1968 pandemics than you or most other people will give credit for. While the vulnerable this time around is the over 70 set with the 50’s and the 60’s somewhere in between. That report is easily searched for at the MA Dept of Public Health site and I posted excerpts from it on CAF here in a different thread.
Hence we quarantined the healthy when we should have devoted our resources to quarantining the vulnerable away from everyone else.
My grandmother is not some shrinking rural wallflower; she graduated from a major college and has lived in highly populated urban areas on the west coast since the mid 1940’s. She knew people who contracted polio in childhood and she called it a terrible nightmare disease to have. That’s what everyone was worried about then. Imagine a disease that strikes children, but really it can strike at any age and leave one partially or entirely paralyzed with no hope of a cure. That’s what they lived with. FDR himself had polio and was partially disabled the remainder of his life though he hid it well. While it is true she is in the vulnerable age range, she still doesn’t see this as the equal of polio.
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Ridgerunner
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Highly improbable since China’s reported numbers are unreliable, as are many others. If, indeed, half the people who are infected are also asymptomatic, the prediction some make that the real numbers of infected is three times the known number or more, citing a mortality rate of 7% based on reported numbers, is indisputably incorrect. In the U.S., the real mortality rate would probably be about .007%, not .02%.
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DENNYINMI
Guest
No, no it’s not “just as scary”…A business and money can be recouped, your death by way of something that could be prevented is a rigid rugged individualism. The problem here is that not everyone is rugged, it’s not just YOUR life when individuals have the capability of endangering the most vulnerable.
The economy>>>>how strong was an economy that didn’t have the capacity to have enough savings to tide them over for 1-2 months?
Living paycheck to paycheck does not an economy make.
The rich>>>>>it makes no difference, they’re buying stocks low and will reap the benefits when the bull comes raging back.
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jeannetherese
Guest
The lockdown may prove especially challenging to those who were not able to, or who chose not to, save a portion of their income. At some point, these people are going to need to return to the wage labor sector. And the businesses which provide many of them with employment, will need to be able to continue this provision. This employer discusses the matter, both in terms of her own family, and in terms of the needs of her employees.
Coronavirus: Dallas hair salon owner jailed for week for defying lockdown
Shelley Luther told a Texas judge feeding her children was not selfish, but he jailed her for a week.
www.bbc.com
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DENNYINMI
Guest
Your BBC link proving the beauty salon owner isn’t “selfish” isn’t the intent of my message.
Everyone including owners/CEO’S/rich and poor deserve to eat.
The objection I have is the prior touting of an economy that isn’t quite as pretty as it was projected to be. One to two months of savings for any life catastrophe is economics 101.
The intent of the message was that the economy was good for some…Not all.
Paycheck to paycheck does not a good economy make.
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jeannetherese
Guest
We were taught six months of savings as the standard. It seems to me that our culture has prioritized living for the moment and savings have not been encouraged.
An economy represents lots of individual choices and some were pretty short sighted. Those who have not saved may have a difficult time, or may need to reconsider wants and needs as we work our way through this situation.
I wonder if we might see more multi-generational living situations resulting from this? Hopefully, we will see an increased prioritization on saving.
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jeannetherese
Guest
It appears that France is facing similar challenges:
www.bbc.com
It appears that Texas has decided in favor (to some extent) of the hairdresser and her employees who needed to continue working
www.bbc.com
Coronavirus: Lockdown bites poor as France eases grip
France is eyeing a lifting of strict coronavirus measures on Monday but for many the damage is done.
www.bbc.com
It appears that Texas has decided in favor (to some extent) of the hairdresser and her employees who needed to continue working
Texas governor amends lockdown and orders salon owner freed from jail
The governor's order names the Dallas hairdresser who was jailed on Tuesday for staying open.
www.bbc.com
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RidgeSprinter
Guest
Ours is allowing Mass since Tuesday but only 10 at a time. You have to text the Office Secretary to reserve a spot. But they are distributing the host at the front door everyday. Small consolation for some.
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pnewton
Guest
We are going to have about 60-80. every other pew is blocked off, only one person or family on each end. it is well past the 6 foot distancing guidelines. Everyone is masked. St. Jerome, Clute, on YouTube if anyone wants to see how it is done.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
I think this problem has more to do with peoples’ habits of life than the economy itself. I know quite a few Mexicans of recent arrival in this country; people who arrived in the 1980s/1990s wave. They have more actual money, on average, than “Anglos” similarly situated. I see their financials, and I know what I’m seeing.
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