Corporal punishment, tips on how to raise children

[Ruthie_again]

I am stunned you haven’t been called on the mat for using “training” in a thread regarding raising children. In fact, I will have to check the stickies, b/c I think it is against the rules!!

All joking aside, there is simple truth in what you say.

But let’s take it one step further…do you punish behavior that is undesireable? That is not the same as not rewarding undesireable behavior.

I do worry that folks will react negatively, thinking I’m comparing their children to animals. But those basic principles operate on everything that breathes air or water.

Behavioral scientists define it as “something that causes the frequency of a behavior to decrease.” Within that definition, I use it. The thing is, it can be very small things. I train dogs using treats as rewards; my usual “punishment” is “No cookie for you.” Result: they try harder to get the cookie. The only time I smack a dog is when - and this is important! - when I have lost my temper. It is a setback, and I have to go back over what the dog has already used, giving lots of cookies and praise, to get their trust back.

And it’s a lot easier to regain the trust of a dog than it is with a human.

 

[pollynova]

Then a family member should have stepped in and told them they were going too far. I’m sorry they didn’t, but I shouldn’t be punished for your parents’ crimes.

Wasn’t my parents, it was uncles and aunts, but that’s not the point. Besides, you just said no one has the right to step in and tell someone they are over the line.

 

[28562]

Wasn’t my parents, it was uncles and aunts, but that’s not the point. Besides, you just said no one has the right to step in and tell someone they are over the line.

In a prior post, I said that it’s nobody’s business unless the safety, health, or security of a child is in jeopardy. I stand by that. But not every parent that spanks their kids is a danger to the child’s safety and health. If it was as bad as you say, then another family member should have taken notice and done something.

 

[Allegra]

I don’t think spanking is a very effective form of punishment, even when it’s done “properly”. It’s the next step up from doing nothing at all on the effectiveness scale.

First of all, in our society, it is not acceptable to hit people. Children are people. Many people deserve to be hit, but we don’t hit them except in the rare instance of self-defense. No one needs to utilize hitting to defend themselves from a small child. You would never send a child out into the world with the advice, “Don’t hit anyone, unless they don’t do what you say.” Spanking sends the message that authority is claimed through physical superiority and that is not accurate in the real world. It also sends the message that children’s physical beings have less worth and rights than adults.

Secondly, it raises threshold of parental tolerance way too high, in my opinion. When I tell a child to do something or not to do something, I expect “Please, do this…” to be sufficient. The “please” is a courtesy, but it is a directive and not a request. I don’t expect to have to whip someone in order for them to get that I “really mean it”. Spanking demonstrates a loss of parental control, especially when it is used several times a day as some posters have suggested.

Finally, unless a parent really is a sadistic monster, a child is eventually going to realize that there is a limit to the amount of physical discomfort their loving ma or pa is willing to inflict on their offspring and they are gong to determine that what they want at that moment is worth a few slaps on the butt that only last a few seconds. Other forms of punishment are much longer and require restitution in order to undue. Grounding, time-out, loss of privilege, fines (cash or toys), community service, etc, give the child time to think about what they did and then make up for the mistake. A spanking doesn’t involve any correction or restitution, unless you count a release of frustration for the parent.

However, if a parent still feels that spanking is effective on their kids, I would urge them to only use it as a last resort, after they have given the child a chance to stop the undesired behavior and they have refused to do so.

 

[Allegra]

I’m not really trying to accuse anyone here of anything. But I know someone who admitted spanking their child who had autism. People like that do exist. I’m just wondering how some of you draw the lines that is all.

I guess I’m a little slow, but why is it wrong to spank a child with autism, but not a toddler? I’m curious about the reasoning behind this statement that we are assuming every sane person would agree with.

Is the argument that a disabled child isn’t capable of understanding the different between right and wrong? In that case, why spank a two-year-old who runs into the street? An autistic nine-year-old certainly can differentiate right and wrong far better the they hypothetical two-year-old.

Is it because an autistic child has neurological difficulties with controling their impulses and are therefore less culpable for their mistakes? Well, for crying out loud, that arguement can be carried up to age ten and then taken up again from fifteen to twenty-three. The brains of children and teens aren’t wired for impuse control. That is a scientific fact.

Are we assuming that autistic children are incapable of ever learning to control their own behavior so disciplining them is a waste of time whereas a two-year-old will eventual learn right from wrong? I know a whole slew of parents and teachers who would go to the grave arguing with you on that one. (As well as well-adjusted autistic adults.)

One point I could get on board with is that autistic children have tendency for extremely high touch-sensitivity, which could make a spaking a much more distressful incident and would likely do absolutely no good and could cause a major meltdown. Is that what you were referring to?

Then why is it wrong to spank bipolar children and the other disabled children the other poster mentioned, but not extremely young children who are on the same level intellectually?

 

[pnewton]

First of all, in our society, it is not acceptable to hit people.

There are many cases where it is acceptable. This is not an absolute, so the logic does not apply.

 

[Allegra]

There are many cases where it is acceptable. This is not an absolute, so the logic does not apply.

Really? Other than self-defense and defense of others? And they are?

 

[pnewton]

Really? Other than self-defense and defense of others? And they are?

Sports. Discipling children. A slap on the back. High-five.

The point is that you tried a syllogism in which the first part is simply not universal. Even if spanking was the sole exception, you still did nothing more than beg the question. Your first premise is true only if the premise you try and prove is true.

 

[28562]

In that case, why spank a two-year-old who runs into the street?

Can you make a two year old understand the actual consequences of running into the street? Short of showing them a person getting run over by a car, it’s not possible. They just don’t have the ability to understand what might happen, especially if they have done it before and did not get hit.

So they can’t understand that:

Running into the street=possibly getting hit by a car=possible death

I don’t care how much explaining you do, they aren’t going to get that.

So we can make them understand that:

Letting go of mommy or daddy’s hand and running towards the street=my butt hurts and mommy and daddy aren’t happy=I don’t want to do that again

A spanking provides an immediate, guaranteed, memorable consequence for an action which you have been told to not do. For things like running into the street, where there is often (and hopefully) no direct consequence, it’s hard for them to understand why it’s bad. So you give them a reason for it to be a bad idea.

 

[FriendlyFace]

Can you make a two year old understand the actual consequences of running into the street? Short of showing them a person getting run over by a car, it’s not possible. They just don’t have the ability to understand what might happen, especially if they have done it before and did not get hit.

So they can’t understand that:

Running into the street=possibly getting hit by a car=possible death

I don’t care how much explaining you do, they aren’t going to get that.

So we can make them understand that:

Letting go of mommy or daddy’s hand and running towards the street=my butt hurts and mommy and daddy aren’t happy=I don’t want to do that again

A spanking provides an immediate, guaranteed, memorable consequence for an action which you have been told to not do. For things like running into the street, where there is often (and hopefully) no direct consequence, it’s hard for them to understand why it’s bad. So you give them a reason for it to be a bad idea.

This is definitely a case where it makes total sense spank.

 

[FriendlyFace]

My Dad spanked me once when I was four, and he so obviously didn’t want to that I felt sorry for him! I certainly never did what I’d been doing again, and he never threatened to spank me again.

I don’t think spanking is that traumatizing, personally, but I don’t think it’s necessary. It’s much better than no discipline, though.

“Discipline your son, and he will give you peace; he will bring delight to your soul.”

–Proverbs 29:17

 

[Debora123]

Can you make a two year old understand the actual consequences of running into the street? Short of showing them a person getting run over by a car, it’s not possible. They just don’t have the ability to understand what might happen, especially if they have done it before and did not get hit.

So they can’t understand that:

Running into the street=possibly getting hit by a car=possible death

I don’t care how much explaining you do, they aren’t going to get that.

So we can make them understand that:

Letting go of mommy or daddy’s hand and running towards the street=my butt hurts and mommy and daddy aren’t happy=I don’t want to do that again

A spanking provides an immediate, guaranteed, memorable consequence for an action which you have been told to not do. For things like running into the street, where there is often (and hopefully) no direct consequence, it’s hard for them to understand why it’s bad. So you give them a reason for it to be a bad idea.

You make a good case.

One point for spanking!! Lol.

 

[Ruthie_again]

So you suggest giving a kid a peice of candy everytime they are good? What you’re not?

I said there are many rewards. Smiling at a kid and (especially) saying “Thank you!” works well enough for me. It works on everyone - bank tellers, food servers, customer service, even traffic cops!

Why not, because kids aren’t dogs and are a lot more complecated ?

Of course. Although, until they reach a certain point in toddlerhood, there are great similarities! But, once they get past needing just food, care and love, they’re not the same at all. Dogs don’t grow out of that. People do.

Loving the advice from the dog trainers and childless ppl on here

Oh, I guess that means Father can’t do any marriage counseling then…

 

[Allegra]

Can you make a two year old understand the actual consequences of running into the street? Short of showing them a person getting run over by a car, it’s not possible. They just don’t have the ability to understand what might happen, especially if they have done it before and did not get hit.

So they can’t understand that:

Running into the street=possibly getting hit by a car=possible death

I don’t care how much explaining you do, they aren’t going to get that.

So we can make them understand that:

Letting go of mommy or daddy’s hand and running towards the street=my butt hurts and mommy and daddy aren’t happy=I don’t want to do that again

A spanking provides an immediate, guaranteed, memorable consequence for an action which you have been told to not do. For things like running into the street, where there is often (and hopefully) no direct consequence, it’s hard for them to understand why it’s bad. So you give them a reason for it to be a bad idea.

Of course a two-year-old can’t understand! And guess what, they aren’t going to remember they got a spanking when they see their ball roll into the street. It would take dozens of incidents of allowing a baby to run into the street and spanking them before they could predict with certainty that they would get a spanking if they tried it again. What psychopath would say, “I’ll just let my toddler run wild in the yard. He knows I’ll spank him if he goes in the street.” No sane person would ever do that. You don’t let a two-year-old have any access to the street. (At least not intentionally.) Spanking a toddler who has run into the street is a pointless over-reaction of a terrified parent who is probably more frustrated with himself for accidentally letting the baby get away from him. It has no lasting effect on their memory and certainly wouldn’t hold up against a toddler’s inability to control impulses and predict consequences of their actions.

 

[Allegra]

Sports. Discipling children. A slap on the back. High-five.

The point is that you tried a syllogism in which the first part is simply not universal. Even if spanking was the sole exception, you still did nothing more than beg the question. Your first premise is true only if the premise you try and prove is true.

You’re being silly. Sports and affectionate contact are mutually agreed upon by both parties. They are completely different from striking another person in order to exert your will on them.

 

[pnewton]

You’re being silly. Sports and affectionate contact are mutually agreed upon by both parties. They are completely different from striking another person in order to exert your will on them.

Silly? Remind me not to answer any more of your questions. Of course they are completely different. Yet it was you that asked for other examples, though even the example of police is sufficient to disprove your point. “We do not hit other people” simply is a false statement. Of course we do.

What is silly is comparing spanking to assault. Thoughout thousands of generations of mankind we have known the difference until we became so educated we are have lost wisdom.

 

[28562]

Of course a two-year-old can’t understand! And guess what, they aren’t going to remember they got a spanking when they see their ball roll into the street.I disagree and I cite my experience with three kids that have yet to get run over as my evidence.
It would take dozens of incidents of allowing a baby to run into the street and spanking them before they could predict with certainty that they would get a spanking if they tried it again. Depends on the kid. How do you propose to stop them from running into the street?
What psychopath would say, “I’ll just let my toddler run wild in the yard. He knows I’ll spank him if he goes in the street.” No sane person would ever do that. You don’t let a two-year-old have any access to the street. (At least not intentionally.)My kids play in the front yard all the time and they have no problem staying out of the street. I guess I just strongly believe in personal responsibility and getting started teaching that at a young age. Besides, I am speaking more of an incident where you might be taking a walk downtown and your kid tries to pull away and cross the street. **
Spanking a toddler who has run into the street is a pointless over-reaction of a terrified parent who is probably more frustrated with himself for accidentally letting the baby get away from him.
Who says it is pointless? You? A scientist? The government? Me, who has seen that it is effective with my own kids?
It has no** lasting effect on their memory and certainly wouldn’t hold up against a toddler’s inability to control impulses and predict consequences of their actions.

Be careful with absolute statements. To say it has NO effect is not true in all cases. As most of us have been saying since the beginning of this thread, every child is different and each parent should have the ability to decide what works for each individual kid.

 

[28562]

What is silly is comparing spanking to assault. Thoughout thousands of generations of mankind we have known the difference until we became so educated we are have lost wisdom.

AMEN!

 

[28562]

Here is something else I just thought of.

Let’s debunk the ‘we can’t hit adults’ myth.

When do kids deserve and get spankings? When they cross known boundaries and even after warnings, they are still non compliant and defiant.

Example–
All my kids know to not throw toys or play rough around the baby. This is a known rule. If it happens once, they will get a reminder and a warning. The next time it happens (within a certain amount of time), they are getting spanked. Period, end of story.

We can absolutely use physical force against adults when they cross known boundaries and remain non compliant and defiant.

Example–
Everyone knows not to speed. If you do, and you get pulled over, you must show the police officer your driver’s license and registration. If you refuse to do it, he is probably going to ask you to get out of the car. If you refuse to do that, he is going to forcefully remove you from the car. If you continue to not comply, you may find yourself on the wrong end of a beating, a taser, or a gun, depending on how seriously defiant you are.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is no different than spanking a child. The logic is easy, whether it is for kids or adults.

Rules broke=warning
If warning not heeded=physical force will be used to ensure compliance

 

[TheKingdomOfGod]

I’m 16 years old so I cannot post from an experience of an adult/parent on this matter. However I can as a child from, in relative terms, a few years ago.

I was spanked as a child up until about the the age of 9 and I can assure you it did nothing good for me. I knew what was right and wrong without violence being used against me. Granted I was spanked only on occasion, but it still hurt every time.

When I was spanked for mis-behaving if anything it would encourage me to mis-behave again, in a strange rebellious way. My point is, I learnt what was wrong and not, not from spanking but from my parents teaching me.

My younger sister was not spanked, it was only me and I know when I am a parent I won’t be doing the thing I hated to my children.