Could Joe Biden be reached?

[blackforest]

Me too. Voting at all feels as pointless as raking leaves on a windy day. But voting my conscience at least shows elected officials that I showed up at the polls and care about my country.

Generally speaking, faithful Catholics don’t get into high places in life. If he was a faithful Catholic pro-life, pro-family candidate then he never would have become Obama’s VP or probably even be holding public office. The longer a person goes down a path, the harder it is to change that path.

It must feel empty when that’s all you have, just that mad panting after power and fame, principles be d#$%ed. (I tend to wax philosophical before I finish my morning coffee).

Men have been told and warned better these days, and I would hope they are listening.

Thank you for saying this. Healthy masculinity doesn’t mean no masculinity. It isn’t too much to ask men, my own sons included, to behave as gentlemen.

 

[on_the_hill]

Since this is a Catholic forum:
I’ll vote for Joe if he’s the nominee. As a Catholic, Biden has qualities about him that the other guy simply doesn’t have. I’ve found that to be the case with most people I know.

 

[F_Marturana]

The Presidency of the U.S. is NOT a beauty contest. We need to look past the “beauty” of the candidates–their personal lives, their religion practices, their besetting sins, their voice tones and skill at delivering speeches and mannerisms and fitness and personal relationships.

Trump seems to be the first Republican that being a morally fit person doesn’t matter.

I remember Gary Hart, a Democrat, had to drop out of the presidential race because of an extramarital affair.

Now, President Trump gets “mulligans”. Let’s remember his infamous tape. With a pregnant wife at home, he chose to brag about pursuing a married woman and his he could get away with assault. And Michael Cohen sits in federal prison for payments to a playboy bunny and a porn actress. His boss was considered a co-conspirator by a federal court.

I remember when Bill Clinton rightly was considered a bad example for his actions.

But now we aren’t supposed to care.

Trump has mean tweets, he also uses coarse language, doesn’t frequent church, and is in an irregular third marriage. I’m not that old but I’m my voting life time that would have disqualified any liberal candidate.

There aren’t any decent republicans to be president? We can’t even have a Republican primary.

 

[twf]

My post specifically referenced comments and actions in regards to women…in direct response to your criticism of Biden which was that he has given uninvited massages to a lot of women… abortion, etc wasn’t part of the conversation (of course Trump openly supported abortion not so long ago).

Biden and Trump are both creeps when it comes to women. His access Hollywood tape, his comment about the woman who was grumpy because she had blood coming from “somewhere”, his comments about busting into the change room at beauty pageants, his cameo in a porn film…the fact that his former lawyer is in jail partly over the hush money Trump paid to a porn Star…
Support Trump’s policies all you want, but don’t defend Trump’s personal morality while attacking Biden’s.

 

[meltzerboy2]

The case might be made by some that Truman, LBJ, Nixon and others were guilty of indecencies and crimes as well, and that this kind of behavior did not originate with Trump. I partially agree with that view. However, at the same time, let us be aware of the shift in our sociocultural norms of behavior with regard to our leaders as well as our ordinary (global) citizens. Trump’s behavior reflects what too many people in our country actually admire: forthrightness, abandonment of all civility, non-political talk, flouting of immorality, and emotional rather than rational speech. It is, unfortunately, a sign of the troubled, disturbed times we are living in.

 

[Thom18]

Unless I’m mistaken, a Catholic voter needs to be more concerned with a candidate’s policy than their personal life. I’m not voting for pro-abortion Joe Biden just because he’s “polite”.

 

[whatistrue]

voter needs to be more concerned with a candidate’s policy than their personal life.

On one level, that is entirely correct. However, I would point out that a candidate’s personal life can illuminate such things as whether or not he or she is honest and will actually do their best to push said policies forward, or is simply an opportunist who says whatever the audience of the day wants to hear and actually has no real principles to refer to when performing their duty.

Before any one decides that I am having a jab at their favorite candidate, whoever he or she may be, let me say that no political party or other organization has a monopoly on such behavior, or even a disproportionate number of members who fit the description to a greater or lesser extent. It is said that power corrupts; I believe that seeking or trying to hang on to power corrupts as much or more.

 

[StudentMI]

I remember this book called Washington Babylon by Alexander Cockburn and Jeffrey St. Clair. They just profiled politicians from both sides. It was written in like 98 or so. I read it years later and it was just so… Not disheartening or shattering but the amount of foulness was overwhelming.

 

[Dr_Meinheimer]

Thing is, I don’t see Trump trying to legitimize and offer legal protection to any of his moral failings. Biden kind of wants his codified in law.

Ergo, the focus on policies.

 

[Dr_Meinheimer]

Well, heaven forbid that man should love his sister.

Or think she’s his wife, even.

 

[Dr_Meinheimer]

Again, Biden’s morality is directly tied to the policies he runs on. THAT’S the problem.

When Trump tries to legalize porn-star hush money, call us. Until then, the differences are night and day. I get that some people simply can’t look past what they perceive to be someone’s lack of character, but continuing to argue that point when many folks have said they agree but are voting for other reasons is pointless.

I am one who remains more convinced than ever that the Donald Trump of 2020 is ot the Donald Trump of 10 or 20 years ago, so for me it is even easier. When it comes to Biden’s character, he doesn’t even pretend to be a different guy than his policies portray him as. He simply doesn’t care.

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[phil19034]

meltzerboy2:

But he traded his beliefs for political reasons.

I think Trump did the same, frankly. I’m so sick of politics. I mostly vote while plugging my nose - takes the edge off.

First - I don’t think Trump changed his views on abortion for political reasons. My THEORY is that the child he knows who wasn’t aborted even though the father wanted an abortion is actually his own son, Barron. I think Trump is actually the father he discusses & Barron was the unwanted child the father wanted aborted. After his son was born, Trump had a massive conversion the subject. At least that’s my theory.

Regardless, whether Trump did or didn’t change his view for political reasons doesn’t really matter. Trump’s pro-life position (whether sincere or fake) is promoting God’s work.

On the other hand, Biden’s political positions regarding abortion (regardless of his person opinions) are promoting the devil’s work.

Therefore, there is a big difference.

 

[blackforest]

I don’t think anyone here mentioned abortion. But since you’re wondering, given everything else he’s changed his mind on, it’s fair to suspect that he changed on that issue, too. It’s harder, (albeit it not impossible), to get elected as a Republican when not pro-life. Is Donald Trump Really a Democrat or Republican?

 

[HomeschoolDad]

First - I don’t think Trump changed his views on abortion for political reasons. My THEORY is that the child he knows who wasn’t aborted even though the father wanted an abortion is actually his own son, Barron. I think Trump is actually the father he discusses & Barron was the unwanted child the father wanted aborted. After his son was born, Trump had a massive conversion the subject. At least that’s my theory.

Try to imagine, after he leaves office (let’s hope that’s sometime in 2025, but it may be sooner), that he goes on one of the interview shows on EWTN, or even CBN, or a similar network. He tells the story as you describe. Can you imagine how powerful that would be?

I am one who remains more convinced than ever that the Donald Trump of 2020 is ot the Donald Trump of 10 or 20 years ago, so for me it is even easier. When it comes to Biden’s character, he doesn’t even pretend to be a different guy than his policies portray him as. He simply doesn’t care.

I don’t even pretend to know what goes on in Joe Biden’s head. I do know that he identifies as a Catholic, that he goes to Mass every Sunday, is probably of the mentality that “I have to take time to get to Mass somewhere on Saturday evening or Sunday, it’s my obligation” — as does a large percentage of Catholics in this country, receives communion when the priest will give it to him and judges himself worthy the same way that many Catholics judge themselves worthy when their beliefs and behavior are at variance with the magisterium, and I believe he carries a rosary with him. If you asked him about abortion, he would tell you that he is personally opposed, but that we cannot impose our morality on others, that we have to respect different points of view, and that poor women shouldn’t be impeded from being able to resolve their predicaments in ways that rich women can. In short, he’s probably pretty much a garden-variety modern liberal “conscience” Catholic, no different from many others who are in the pew with you and me every Sunday.

But I would add to this, that he grew up in a time when Catholics were a people who had demands made upon them, and by and large, they obeyed. But things were beginning to unravel. Biden was 18 years old in 1960. I don’t doubt that he was taught traditional Catholic morality, and it is possible that someone in his life taught him as Pat Buchanan’s father taught his sons about mortal sin — strike a match, put it to your finger, if you can stand that, fine, if not, then you might reconsider giving in to temptation. (I have taught my son the exact same thing here in the year 2020 — someone please explain to me how that is a bad thing.) He got married in 1966 at age 24. Catholic moral teaching, as it filtered down to people in the pew, was starting to unravel — not the official teaching of the magisterium, but the interpretation of it in people’s actual lives. In short, he’s probably just a product of his times. That was right around when the world started unraveling at the seams.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

My whole point was: given all of the above (which was implicit rather than explicit), if he does indeed win the presidency, maybe Joe Biden could be reached. Without appearing to judge souls or consciences, Bernie Sanders cannot be reached. Elizabeth Warren cannot be reached. Pete Buttigieg probably can’t be reached — he’s found a Christian communion which is basically “Catholicism with all the hard stuff taken out”, and which makes him and his consort feel good about their circumstances. But maybe Joe Biden can.

Time will tell.

 

[Aquinas11]

Trump seems to be the first Republican that being a morally fit person doesn’t matter.I remember Gary Hart, a Democrat, had to drop out of the presidential race because of an extramarital affair.

I remember when Bill Clinton rightly was considered a bad example for his actions.

But now we aren’t supposed to care.

let us be aware of the shift in our sociocultural norms of behavior with regard to our leaders as well as our ordinary (global) citizens

Abraham Lincoln, widely acclaimed as greatest President ever, jailed 300 journalists and suspended habeus corpus so they couldn’t even go before a Judge

FDR locked hundreds of thousands of minorities in internment camps solely on the basis of their race

JFK turned the White House into a brothel every weekend

LBJ weaponized the FBI and IRS to target political opponents

Obama handed machine guns to Mexican drug cartels, who subsequently killed an American citizen

But Trump stating a fact that (many) women are willing to sleep with celebrities?? OH MY GOSH!!!

 

[VonDerTann]

HSD, I for one got your point from the very outset. The whole problem I have is it’s all “he probably thinks x,” “he seems like a nice guy,” etc., but we have no reason to conclude anything like that. The facts are 100% opposite.

I suppose anybody can in theory be reached…but with ol’ Joe it’s not very likely. And we can’t really conclude that it is likely based on what you think he thinks.

 

[JanetF]

For this reason (and others) I vote third party almost exclusively.

Me too and it really irks me when people try to make me feel guilty for voting my conscience!

 

[HomeschoolDad]

JFK turned the White House into a brothel every weekend

LBJ weaponized the FBI and IRS to target political opponents

The more I hear about JFK, the worse it sounds. And LBJ’s deportment and sexual crudeness makes Trump look like Jimmy Carter by comparison.

I will leave it at that. De mortuii nil nisi bonum.

 

[Dovekin]

If you asked him about abortion, he would tell you that he is personally opposed, but that we cannot impose our morality on others

This is what he was taught as a Catholic, and his commitment to it is very Catholic. It is the issue you would have to address if you want him to “get” your point. He knows abortion is murder, but all the righteous posturing on that issue will not affect his position on the government imposing its will on people. You can probably get him to support government intervention to keep people from owning guns before you can get him to support government intervention to prevent abortion.

The way to approach Biden would be to explain why you as a pro-life Catholic support government intervention to keep women from following their conscience. That does not seem like a valid Catholic position to him, for good reasons.

And, as in any discussion, it is best not to cut off the ears of the person with whom you must speak. Acting like you are a good Catholic and he is a bad one will not lead to him hearing what you say.