Could Joe Biden be reached?

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HomeschoolDad said:
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HomeschoolDad:
If you asked him about abortion, he would tell you that he is personally opposed, but that we cannot impose our morality on others
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This is what he was taught as a Catholic, and his commitment to it is very Catholic. It is the issue you would have to address if you want him to “get” your point. He knows abortion is murder, but all the righteous posturing on that issue will not affect his position on the government imposing its will on people. You can probably get him to support government intervention to keep people from owning guns before you can get him to support government intervention to prevent abortion.

The way to approach Biden would be to explain why you as a pro-life Catholic support government intervention to keep women from following their conscience. That does not seem like a valid Catholic position to him, for good reasons.

And, as in any discussion, it is best not to cut off the ears of the person with whom you must speak. Acting like you are a good Catholic and he is a bad one will not lead to him hearing what you say.
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I will in all likelihood never be talking to him. I have never met him, though he has visited my former parish before (I wasn’t there).

As regards your point, the only thing I would be able to say, is that these women’s consciences are simply wrong, and that we are not just talking some metaphysical point here, or a “victimless crime” that only hurts the agent who is committing it, we are talking about murder. If someone thinks murder, rape, robbery, embezzlement, what have you, are not wrong, and their conscience does not accuse them if they do these things, that’s beside the point, they have to be stopped. That’s what you call a sociopath.
 
Part of the problem I have with OPs thought processes - and I think a lot of Catholics think like this - is that they are apparently based on pure feelings: “deep down he’s a good guy - I just KNOW it, because, ya know, he probably carries a rosary, and he’s just so much NICER than that crude man in the Oval Office!” Now you’re opining what he was taught, too.

The facts say otherwise.

There are literally no facts supportive that Biden can be reached; that he’s such a “nice guy,” or that he’s anything other than a Ted Kennedy/Nancy Pelosi “I’m catholic but oppose all church teachings and support abortion on demand” politician.

If you want to pine for “how you’d approach Joe,” how he’s so reachable,
i can’t really stop you, but please, don’t you dare lead Catholics to thinking Joe is really such a nice guy cause you just sort of “feel it” - because the facts say 100% otherwise.

By policies, trump is 1000% more “Catholic” than Joe Biden will ever be.
 
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VonDerTann said:
Part of the problem I have with OPs thought processes - and I think a lot of Catholics think like this - is that they are apparently based on pure feelings: “deep down he’s a good guy - I just KNOW it, because, ya know, he probably carries a rosary, and he’s just so much NICER than that crude man in the Oval Office!” Now you’re opining what he was taught, too.

The facts say otherwise.

There are literally no facts supportive that Biden can be reached; that he’s such a “nice guy,” or that he’s anything other than a Ted Kennedy/Nancy Pelosi “I’m catholic but oppose all church teachings and support abortion on demand” politician.

If you want to pine for “how you’d approach Joe,” how he’s so reachable,
i can’t really stop you, but please, don’t you dare lead Catholics to thinking Joe is really such a nice guy cause you just sort of “feel it” - because the facts say 100% otherwise.

By policies, trump is 1000% more “Catholic” than Joe Biden will ever be.
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Whether someone is a “nice guy” or not, as this term is commonly understood, is just an observation about their deportment, their personal manner, and how they treat other people (who are not unborn babies, that is). Someone can be as smooth as silk, yet be a snake in the grass. Someone can be an irritable, annoying, unpleasant person to be around, yet be on the side of the angels — it’s just more difficult to see. I acknowledge that. And I did not say one word, and I do not think I even insinuated anything, about Donald Trump. From what I’ve heard, he can be the nicest guy you’d ever want to meet, or he can be, shall we say, something entirely different. I don’t know and I really don’t care. I have made up my mind to vote for Trump, and I would like to see everyone else do likewise. But if Biden does get elected — and he may — the question will then be “what now?”.

He may not be able to be reached, but it would do no harm to try. I wouldn’t be the one to do it. There might be someone with enough charisma, that “some little something” that persuades the other guy to begin to see it their way, that they could pull it off. There’s a certain type of person, as I heard it put recently, who could sell a ketchup popsicle to a woman in a white pantsuit. Maybe someone like that. I’d like to think so.
 
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Joe Biden was born, raised and educated Catholic. He doesn’t lack information or teaching in Catholicism. In fact, he was raised pre Vatican 2. If he were twenty years younger, one might argue his catechesis may have been watered down and lacking…mine certainly was, as a child of the 70s…but not the case for him.

He has chosen his beliefs, politics and path and while he can affect a certain charm outwardly, his actions in too many areas contradict our faith badly. Further, he appears to be dealing with increasing mental incompetency given his constant and serious gaffes.

Our best option is not to vote for him. He will have a gigantic pension for life and it arguably best for his health to retire. Some people have a hard time retiring when they should. I have seen this happen even among priests and nuns who had to be really pushed into retirement when they could no longer effectively or safely handle work assignments.
 
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Kindnessmatters said:
Joe Biden was born, raised and educated Catholic. He doesn’t lack information or teaching in Catholicism. In fact, he was raised pre Vatican 2. If he were twenty years younger, one might argue his catechesis may have been watered down and lacking…mine certainly was, as a child of the 70s…but not the case for him.
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This is precisely the point I was trying to make.
Kindnessmatters said:
He will have a gigantic pension for life and it arguably best for his health to retire.
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More a matter for Quora, but this makes me wonder — if he were elected president, would he get two pensions after leaving office, the one he gets right now for having been VP, and another one for being an ex-president?

Nice work if you can get it.

ETA: Apparently not, this from Quora:

https://www.quora.com/When-a-Vice-P...ifetime-pensions-for-both-political-positions
 
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I guess the Nexus if my point is that he knows he is contradicting the church and doesn’t care. It’s that pesky free will thing. He appears not to care. He is a populist and just parrots what is agreeable to his Democrat cronies, not what is agreeable to God.
 
Kindnessmatters said:
I guess the Nexus if my point is that he knows he is contradicting the church and doesn’t care. It’s that pesky free will thing. He appears not to care. He is a populist and just parrots what is agreeable to his Democrat cronies, not what is agreeable to God.
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I have a feeling, and that’s all it is, that somewhere in his past, Biden has been told by some liberal priest that it is okay for him to be personally opposed to abortion, but to support freedom of choice in the arena of government, as a public servant. Biden has then taken that as “end of story, case closed” and acts and governs accordingly.

It’s very likely the same as when Catholic couples reject Humanae vitae — once upon a time, a priest, or possibly someone else (pre-Cana instructor, catechist, etc.), has told them “it’s a matter for individual conscience”, they don’t see anything wrong with it, and that’s that.

People tend to hear what they want to hear, and to turn things to their best advantage.
 
There’s that thing again - “I have a feeling…”

Feelings aren’t facts.
 
One final point:

With all due respect, this sort of lengthy, “what joe believes/how do we reach him/he must have been taught x/I have a feeling,” etc., starts to come off like high school drama. It’s like 14 year olds endlessly talking about their boycrush.

I’m moving on.
 
whatistrue said:
n one level, that is entirely correct. However, I would point out that a candidate’s personal life can illuminate such things as whether or not he or she is honest and will actually do their best to push said policies forward, or is simply an opportunist who says whatever the audience of the day wants to hear and actually has no real principles to refer to when performing their duty.
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Unless we know the candidate personally, we really can’t say what their “personal life” is like.

We see what the media shows and tells us. This may or may not be a complete picture.

If “media” for some reason decided to show clips from my life, they could make me look like a really awful person by picking out some of my “bad days.” I have a tendency to fly off the handle and denounce situations that I think are incompetent–that’s just one besetting sin that I struggle with. Media could have a field day showing clips of my melt-downs! I would look like an angry shrew.

Another besetting sin is gluttony. I can strap on that feedbag and empty it out! Media could show some of my pigouts (eating entire bags of tater chips and a carton of chip dip while watching TV!) and make me look like…well, a glutton! It would look like I live this way all the time, which I don’t–in fact, I have lost 33 pounds over the last year.

But how about the rest of my life–any good traits? For the most part, I am a person who gives of myself and my resources to a point where I exhaust myself and those resources. I am extremely generous with money, time, and talents. I am highly-creative and have been responsible for producing some of the best “shows” in my city. I am modest in my lifestyle–I live in a smaller home on a busy street right in the middle of the city (no plans to move to a “nice” neighborhood).

I think President Trump (and for that matter, most public figures) are the same as me. They have their good and bad traits, and their good and bad days. If media wants to portray someone as “bad”, they can do it. Or they can portray someone as “good”, as they usually did with the Obama family. It’s their call, and it’s our responsibility to take what they show and tell us with a healthy skepticism.

Think about this–has ANYONE employed in the past by Donald Trump come forward to denounce him? Not really. Considering how many people worked (and still work) for him in his business, in his household, or as contractors, advisors, lawyers, etc. for him–it’s amazing that more of these people haven’t come forward and declared him a monster! I’m guessing that certain enemies of the President would be willing to pay someone a lot of retirement money for that revelation! But so far, just not a whole lot of people willing to denounce their boss. Hmmm…very interesting!
 
TMC said:
Seriously? You might want to look into this again.
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Oh, I know that there have been some people. But not the multitudes that I would expect if he were really as awful as he is depicted.
 
Peeps said:
Oh, I know that there have been some people. But not the multitudes that I would expect if he were really as awful as he is depicted.
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There have been multitudes. One of the most consistent features of Donald Trump is that everyone that works for him says they love him, and everyone that used to work for him says the opposite. I am not saying that is dispositive as to his character, but it is certainly a fact.
 
I’m sure Judas had his “nice guy” moments too. But he betrayed the Person who loved him the most. Joe Biden is betraying Christ and His Bride publicly. Trading abortion for votes. Blood money like the silver coins given to Judas. Biden needs many prayers to save his soul. Even the tragic events in his life have failed to bring him back to the ONE TRUE FAITH. Pray for him and all the Judas’ in our current culture. Then let God take care of it.

St. MICHAEL Gods Holy Servant , protect us.
Johndw52
 
VonDerTann said:
There’s that thing again - “I have a feeling…”

Feelings aren’t facts.
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VonDerTann said:
One final point:

With all due respect, this sort of lengthy, “what joe believes/how do we reach him/he must have been taught x/I have a feeling,” etc., starts to come off like high school drama. It’s like 14 year olds endlessly talking about their boycrush.

I’m moving on.
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Well, deal with people and situations as you see fit, but I have found, in 60 years of living, that there are times that I just get a feeling, or a hunch, about this or that. More often than I’d expect, I turn out to be right. I think that many other people, besides myself, operate this way. I have made some halfway decent stock market deals based on hunches and just a free-floating feeling that “the time’s right”. I have also had occasions in life where I refused to listen to my gut instincts — more like I didn’t want to acknowledge what I was feeling — and things didn’t turn out so well.

We’re all different.
 
All successful politicians have charisma in spades. They are all likable when you meet them
 
on_the_hill said:
I’ll vote for Joe if he’s the nominee. As a Catholic, Biden has qualities about him that the other guy simply doesn’t have. I’ve found that to be the case with most people I know.
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Very little angers me more than someone who claims to be Catholic unrepentantly living against Church teaching.
HomeschoolDad said:
My whole point was: given all of the above (which was implicit rather than explicit), if he does indeed win the presidency, maybe Joe Biden could be reached . Without appearing to judge souls or consciences, Bernie Sanders cannot be reached. Elizabeth Warren cannot be reached. Pete Buttigieg probably can’t be reached — he’s found a Christian communion which is basically “Catholicism with all the hard stuff taken out”, and which makes him and his consort feel good about their circumstances. But maybe Joe Biden can.
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I would actually see the others as more reachable. Biden knows the truth. It’s possible the others don’t and could be convinced of it.
 
Peeps said:
at least has a chance at living a decent life (if they will take that chance and run with it).

Voting for a 3rd Party candidate with no chance of winning is throwing away an opportunity … I think those who do this should consider themselves accountable
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The Church does not consider them accountable. In fact, this is a moral way go vote, so to whom would they be accountable? The RNC? The DNC? Not their own conscience, if they voted third party with a properly formed conscience. Voting for one of the two major party candidates because of electability is said to be “acceptable.”

Yet I know for the next six months there will be shame and pressure put on people to violate their conscience in this matter in the name of morality, but against what the Church teaches on the matter.
 
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