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Jeanne_S
Guest
I hear you.This is how it should have always been approached,rather than a one size fits all mindset…
COVID-19 mutation may be evolving to bypass mask-wearing, hand-washing
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Cathoholic
Guest
LeafByNiggle . . .
They can choose to go to the store or have them delivered.
LeafByNiggle . . .
You have no idea what a “mask” even is because there is no definition that fits this.
A week or two ago you put up information about N-95 “masks” for example that neglected to inform the readers that the electrostatic charge still does not filter everything.
It ignored the fact that the electrostatic charge is irrelevant if you are wearing an N-95 mask over several hours.
Your guy ignored the fact that N-95 masks with valves emit pure covid-laden droplet gas unfiltered causing the whole world to die in a matter of weeks! (OK. I am being a little melodramatic for rhetorical effect on that last part.)
Your guy ignored a sneeze in your mask or other “moisurizing” of this barrier that locks in germs.
You have ignored that some masks are merely diversionary and filter nothing.
You have overlooked the fact that some masks jettison the virus out further to MORE people.
You have (as far as I can see) completely ignored Democrats not wearing masks (I’ve put up plenty of pictures of them here at CAF).
You have soft-peddled Andrew Cuomo’s ordering of INFECTED patients INTO New York nursing homes and how “masks” did not save the enormous amounts of elderly people who have died as a result of such abject stupidity as Cuomo displayed.
You have had very little to say in the sphere of rioters not wearing masks while burning down apartments that in some cases elderly and sick lived there.
You have ignored the fact that even with N-95 masks the corona virus us 1/30th the size of mask permeations.
You have offered no comment about people waering their “masks” as a chinstrap (that I have put up a photo of Democrat Andrew Cuomo doing) or below their nostrils (as I have posted Democrat Chuck Schumer doing). Do these still counts as “masks” in your “definition”?
Please link me to all your mask posts last year because influenza is more deadly in young persons than corona virus and has resulted in more premature death-years than corona virus that has an average age of death the same as NO corona virus. Show me the same principle that you were holding last year.
People are hanging their “masks” from their rear-view mirrors using and re-using and re-re-using them to get into stores, then placing them back in the sun for more decomposition.
You have no idea what the definition of a “mask” is in this sense because one doesn’t exist.
You have absolutely NO studies to support your conclusions. None whatsoever. I know as I have asked for them many times here.
Your people are pulling this out of thin-air, and FORCING it on people for nothing but a power ploy.
No benefit and probably harm. Clearly spiritual harm (which is even much more important than physical harm due to the ETERNAL nature of that dimension) from missing Mass, Confession, Confirmation, and Anointing of the Sick!
I think it is foolish and terrible.
The same way they get groceries now.
They can choose to go to the store or have them delivered.
LeafByNiggle . . .
It is not a “right” to be FORCED to wear a mask.
You have no idea what a “mask” even is because there is no definition that fits this.
A week or two ago you put up information about N-95 “masks” for example that neglected to inform the readers that the electrostatic charge still does not filter everything.
It ignored the fact that the electrostatic charge is irrelevant if you are wearing an N-95 mask over several hours.
Your guy ignored the fact that N-95 masks with valves emit pure covid-laden droplet gas unfiltered causing the whole world to die in a matter of weeks! (OK. I am being a little melodramatic for rhetorical effect on that last part.)
Your guy ignored a sneeze in your mask or other “moisurizing” of this barrier that locks in germs.
You have ignored that some masks are merely diversionary and filter nothing.
You have overlooked the fact that some masks jettison the virus out further to MORE people.
You have (as far as I can see) completely ignored Democrats not wearing masks (I’ve put up plenty of pictures of them here at CAF).
You have soft-peddled Andrew Cuomo’s ordering of INFECTED patients INTO New York nursing homes and how “masks” did not save the enormous amounts of elderly people who have died as a result of such abject stupidity as Cuomo displayed.
You have had very little to say in the sphere of rioters not wearing masks while burning down apartments that in some cases elderly and sick lived there.
You have ignored the fact that even with N-95 masks the corona virus us 1/30th the size of mask permeations.
You have offered no comment about people waering their “masks” as a chinstrap (that I have put up a photo of Democrat Andrew Cuomo doing) or below their nostrils (as I have posted Democrat Chuck Schumer doing). Do these still counts as “masks” in your “definition”?
Please link me to all your mask posts last year because influenza is more deadly in young persons than corona virus and has resulted in more premature death-years than corona virus that has an average age of death the same as NO corona virus. Show me the same principle that you were holding last year.
People are hanging their “masks” from their rear-view mirrors using and re-using and re-re-using them to get into stores, then placing them back in the sun for more decomposition.
You have no idea what the definition of a “mask” is in this sense because one doesn’t exist.
You have absolutely NO studies to support your conclusions. None whatsoever. I know as I have asked for them many times here.
Your people are pulling this out of thin-air, and FORCING it on people for nothing but a power ploy.
No benefit and probably harm. Clearly spiritual harm (which is even much more important than physical harm due to the ETERNAL nature of that dimension) from missing Mass, Confession, Confirmation, and Anointing of the Sick!
I think it is foolish and terrible.
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LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
That’s because it doesn’t need to filter 100% to be effective at reducing the spread of the virus. Everyone knows N95 masks do not filter 100%. The video I linked to said so.
That’s because it isn’t true.
That’s because it still works because of the design, and the corona virus does not travel on its own. It travels on a water droplet that is much bigger than the virus.
People, do not listen to the many many self-proclaimed expects and conspiracy theorists on YouTube and blogs and forums who proclaim things in direct contradiction to the professional public health officials who have worked so hard to safeguard the health of our nation. We owe them our gratitude, not rampant skepticsm.
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umamibella
Guest
It does here.
This is an issue that the research whilst working on, has to break down to what strain is appearing and where globally.
These long term affects are on a different scale , evidence is showing.
Please do not contradict public health advice and knowledge on masking up as ‘worthless’ That is against forum rules. (memories
)Public health advice is masking up helps.
For what regions , for both these stats? Remember also we did abetter job at quarantining returning service men and women (who introduced Spanish flu) in 1918 the we have been able to do in 2029
What will that even mean considering earlier studies are showing the life of antibodies for this virus is questionably quite short. Even with flu antibodies and herd immunity, once a new strain hits , not covered by a vaccine, whammo, its dangerous and lethal. Remember 2018/19
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c4csp
Guest
So scary. How about we all stay home for 6 months now. Close everything down, small business, churches, etc., but oh keep those big corporations open and allow “peaceful” protests to burn and loot our cities. We have lost our minds over this virus.
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Cathoholic
Guest
Cathoholic to umamibella . . .
To the readers here (from the OP article) . . .
Just because something is more “contagious”,
it does not make it more “virulent”.
umamibella . . .
Only if you re-define the term.
.vir·u·lence
/ˈvirələns/
noun
the severity or harmfulness of a disease or poison.
“the proportion of birds which die depends on the virulence of the virus”
bitter hostility; rancor.
“he was clearly pained by the virulence of the attacks”
To the readers here (from the OP article) . . .
(Bold mine.)
Just because something is more “contagious”,
it does not make it more “virulent”.
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Cathoholic
Guest
LeafByNiggle . . .
No public health expert affirms wearing chinstraps.
None of them recommend re-wearing and re-wearing masks.
There are no experts that think unfiltered valved-out breathing protects anybody.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Valved Unfiltered-exhalation N95 Mask
No expert thinks all masks are the same (but your arguments carry out that wrong presupposition).
And look at your own N-95 mask box.
N95 masks (which are still next to impossible for the average citizen to currently get unless you pay top dollar) need to be changed after several hours if you are going to use them correctly.
Shorted-out wet masks do not block viruses via electrostatic charges.
Masks get wet over several hours.
I stand by everything I have said.
Including that there is not one study to support society “masking-up” preventing epidemics/pandemics (whatever your definition of “masking-up” is).
I think you should just prove me wrong Leaf.
I think you should just end all that doggone Cathoholic misinformation by putting up one study.
Just one.
Not some expert saying masking up helps (that just initiates the questions I asked in the post above. Which masks? What about face covers wearing out? What about the masks that PROJECT virions out further than no mask at all? What about politicians exempting themselves? Etc. etc.), but a real study showing us this helps.
I want to see this study.
And oh by the way. Just like hydroxychloroquine, I want to see it peer reviewed, prospective, randomized, etc. etc.
Including a risk-benefit ratio analysis.
.
To everybody else.
These same people nationally who make you think mandatory masking-up is so efficacious in stopping corona virus in its tracks “today” . . .
. . . will “tomorrow” be among the first to tell you how unprotected we are with mere masks, social distancing, quarantining HEALTHY people etc. (They will tell you how futile masking was) . . .
. . . . They will be telling you how useless all that is when they want to FORCE you to take a quick-to-market inadequately-tested vaccine.
The SAME people.
Covfefe
Please do not contradict my words on “worthless masking” as any masking.
No public health expert affirms wearing chinstraps.
None of them recommend re-wearing and re-wearing masks.
There are no experts that think unfiltered valved-out breathing protects anybody.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Valved Unfiltered-exhalation N95 Mask
No expert thinks all masks are the same (but your arguments carry out that wrong presupposition).
And look at your own N-95 mask box.
N95 masks (which are still next to impossible for the average citizen to currently get unless you pay top dollar) need to be changed after several hours if you are going to use them correctly.
Shorted-out wet masks do not block viruses via electrostatic charges.
Masks get wet over several hours.
I stand by everything I have said.
Including that there is not one study to support society “masking-up” preventing epidemics/pandemics (whatever your definition of “masking-up” is).
I think you should just prove me wrong Leaf.
I think you should just end all that doggone Cathoholic misinformation by putting up one study.
Just one.
Not some expert saying masking up helps (that just initiates the questions I asked in the post above. Which masks? What about face covers wearing out? What about the masks that PROJECT virions out further than no mask at all? What about politicians exempting themselves? Etc. etc.), but a real study showing us this helps.
I want to see this study.
And oh by the way. Just like hydroxychloroquine, I want to see it peer reviewed, prospective, randomized, etc. etc.
Including a risk-benefit ratio analysis.
.
To everybody else.
These same people nationally who make you think mandatory masking-up is so efficacious in stopping corona virus in its tracks “today” . . .
. . . will “tomorrow” be among the first to tell you how unprotected we are with mere masks, social distancing, quarantining HEALTHY people etc. (They will tell you how futile masking was) . . .
. . . . They will be telling you how useless all that is when they want to FORCE you to take a quick-to-market inadequately-tested vaccine.
The SAME people.
Covfefe
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ThinkingSapien
Guest
That sounds like evolution of adversarial species in general.
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0Scarlett_nidiyilii
Guest
This needs to be considered.
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umamibella
Guest
Not really understanding the point being made.
cathoholic to umamibella
yet then cathoholic states
“the severity or harmfulness of a disease”
To the readers
These effects cannot be lumped together globally and must be taken regionally.
We are totally in agreement that mutations can make a virus more, less or, similar in virulence.
To cathoholic , please stop now contradicting public health advice on mask wearing. Advice contrary to professional bodies is against CAF rules.
cathoholic to umamibella
cathoholic states “some more virulent and less virulent strains out there too”
yet then cathoholic states
cathoholic posts a definition of virulent that includes
“the severity or harmfulness of a disease”
To the readers
But it can. What is the purpose of mutation? To keep a virus in play in a given population. What are the virulency effects of mutation - more, the same, or as the herd immunity proponents propose, less deadly.
These effects cannot be lumped together globally and must be taken regionally.
We are totally in agreement that mutations can make a virus more, less or, similar in virulence.
To cathoholic , please stop now contradicting public health advice on mask wearing. Advice contrary to professional bodies is against CAF rules.
There is not one official, mandated health authority that ever said
The myths surrounding mask wearing are close to my heart, living in a mandated mask wearing state. We operate on facts, established medically, not myth.
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ThinkingSapien
Guest
Generally, purpose implies agency. I don’t think that is applicable to imperfect duplication of genes. At least not in a literal sense. Perhaps metaphorically or for didatically.
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umamibella
Guest
From an evolutionary standpoint thematic ‘fit for purpose’
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ATraveller
Guest
It’s unconvincing. Why? This type of virus dissolves away in soap or other surfactants in about 20 seconds. It’s the nature of the membrane that makes it weak outside the body but potent once inside someone. To make the claim hand-washing doesn’t work is like saying room temperature water isn’t wet. Well, I suppose improper hand-washing is less effective.
And even if the virus became a completely different class of virus (it’s impossible AFAIK and it wouldn’t be a coronavirus anymore), soap particles easily surround themselves around viruses, bacteria, dirt, etc. after thorough scrubbing with soap and pull them away from one’s hands under running water.
And this is important from the OP:
And even if the virus became a completely different class of virus (it’s impossible AFAIK and it wouldn’t be a coronavirus anymore), soap particles easily surround themselves around viruses, bacteria, dirt, etc. after thorough scrubbing with soap and pull them away from one’s hands under running water.
And this is important from the OP:
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meltzerboy2
Guest
And we have lost over 200,000 lives.
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meltzerboy2
Guest
To my mind, our country’s problem with the continuous spread of the virus is exactly the opposite, based on the fact that the virus was NOT treated, and still is not, as a one-size-fits-all issue, but instead as an incoherent patchwork of different solutions between states and even within a single state. This war against an invisible enemy has been a national public health emergency and should have had the whole country unified and on the same page.
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umamibella
Guest
Coronavirus Death Toll 27th September
globally
999,088 deaths
globally
999,088 deaths
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umamibella
Guest
@Cathoholic I have flagged that
spam post here, its # 33 or # 34 I think. sesurivnotcontageous is spamming a few threads today with that nonsense.
spam post here, its # 33 or # 34 I think. sesurivnotcontageous is spamming a few threads today with that nonsense.
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ThinkingSapien
Guest
…is it safe to discuss this now without a spamdemic personality poisoning the discussion?
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Mtatum1958
Guest
Yep, they’re gone, again.
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Dovekin
Guest
This article addresses the virulence and infectious issue, suggesting that the more of the virus you receive, the more virulent it will be. This is not peer reviewed research, more like considering an idea in light of what we have learned.
There is not a direct correlation, such that the more infectious strains are more virulent. That might be true, but the more important idea is that decreasing amount that infects is as important as preventing it entirely. Or more important if it prompts an immune response without causing serious illness. That is what vaccines do.
The primary conclusion is that masks may serve a purpose beyond preventing infections, they may lessen symptoms.
There is not a direct correlation, such that the more infectious strains are more virulent. That might be true, but the more important idea is that decreasing amount that infects is as important as preventing it entirely. Or more important if it prompts an immune response without causing serious illness. That is what vaccines do.
The primary conclusion is that masks may serve a purpose beyond preventing infections, they may lessen symptoms.
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