Cruz Thread

[Little_Sheep]

It may depend on how much the Party dislikes Trump. I think Cruz is more representative of the tenets of the GOP than either Trump or Kasich despite his lack of likability within the Party. And he will no doubt come in second (if not first) among the delegate count, so his candidacy is more justified to my mind than Kasich’s, let alone someone who did not even run, no matter what the rules of a contested convention are.

It really will be interesting to watch it play out. Tell me this, though. If Trump rolls into the convention with 1400 delegates, I know he will be the clear winner on vote 1. Is there still - after that vote - the chance that a vote 2 could produce a different nominee?

 

[Cathoholic]

_Abyssinia. You said . . .

So called Republican moderates, nine of them, have lost, ten if George HW Bush is counted because he lost reelection

This is exactly right.

The Conservative voters were suspicious of Bush and Bushism, from the 1979 campaign.

Bush called Regan’s economic ideas “voodoo economics” if I recall correctly.

The eventual Regan-Bush coalition was an uneasy one and Regan did not give Bush much in the way of responsibilities.

It was so well known, I recall Johnny Carson (a late night TV host for you younger people) coming out in his monologue saying something to the effect of . . .

Well President Regan is finally going to allow Bush some high-level cabinet responsibilities. Yes it’s true. Bush will be heading up a new foreign policy structure concerning Europe and South America . . .

. . . Beginning tomorrow morning, and every morning Bush is to get Regan his coffee and Danish.

Conservatives (then) were so afraid of Bush’s BIG Government ideas, that when he was campaigning in 1987, they made Bush promise over and over again, that he would not raise taxes.

Conservatives reluctantly handed Bush the proverbial “car keys” after Bush got upset at Conservatives continually asking him about him raising taxes, Bush finally snarled at them, “Read my lips! NO NEW TAXES!”.

Of course, shortly after Bush was in power, he raised taxes anyway despite his promises not to (and an economic recession resulted).

Conservatives never quite forgave him for that betrayal I think.

Conservatives have been very concerned about Bushism and their Globalist tendencies (that stick it to Americans), ever since.

These are still the same issues that loom in conservatives mind today.

This is WHY at least in part, Conservative Republicans don’t care for establishment Republicans like Establishment Washington.

The exact reason WHY Cruz is unpopular with Establishment Republicans, is EXACTLY WHY, Constitutional Conservatives LOVE Ted Cruz.

Cruz promised a Conservative agenda, then he DELIVRED.

Cruz did not want to fund international bankers with US taxpayer dollars for the World Bank (an ostensible US organization that funds FOREIGN businesses).

Cruz took on McConnell over the issue.

People ask Cruz why he would “get out of line” on these issues, even when everybody knew he couldn’t win.

Cruz’ reply?

I’m just doing what I promised the voters and taxpayers that I would do. Look out for them.

THIS is WHY the Establishment is unhappy with Cruz (Cruz isn’t a party myrmidon or “unquestioning follower”).

Not only does that interfere with the Establishment Globalist Big Government agenda, but it CONTRASTS the Establishment wing of the party even further. This does not allow them to blend into the party.

The voters want an America first policy.

The Conservative voters are plenty generous with the world, but they want to pick their OWN charities. Not having Washington operatives picking their foreign charities for them.

These are some of the reasons WHY, Establishment Republicans are so opposed to Cruz. And some of the reasons WHY, Conservatives LOVE him.

Cruz DOES what he says he will do. And provides LEADERSHIP in the process.

And this leadership is another thing that scares Washington operatives. Because if the whole power structure changes, that means they will not be able to manipulate money as well as socially engineer the way they did.

This is also WHY they are afraid of Trump. Because they will not be able to control Trump either.

They don’t care if Trump calls himself a " Conservative" or not. They want to have Governmental policy and money flow power.

This is WHY some Establishment Republicans would vote for a Democrat. Because the Democrats are more in unison with them, than Conservatives (although they will never openly admit it).

 

[Little_Sheep]

_Abyssinia. You said . . .

This is exactly right.

The Conservative voters were suspicious of Bush and Bushism, from the 1979 campaign.

Bush called Regan’s economic ideas “voodoo economics” if I recall correctly.

The eventual Regan-Bush coalition was an uneasy one and Regan did not give Bush much in the way of responsibilities.

It was so well known, I recall Johnny Carson (a late night TV host for you younger people) coming out in his monologue saying something to the effect of . . .

Conservatives (then) were so afraid of Bush’s BIG Government ideas, that when he was campaigning in 1987, they made Bush promise over and over again, that he would not raise taxes.

Conservatives reluctantly handed Bush the proverbial “car keys” after Bush got upset at Conservatives continually asking him about him raising taxes, Bush finally snarled at them, “Read my lips! NO NEW TAXES!”.

Of course, shortly after Bush was in power, he raised taxes anyway despite his promises not to (and an economic recession resulted).

Conservatives never quite forgave him for that betrayal I think.

Conservatives have been very concerned about Bushism and their Globalist tendencies (that stick it to Americans), ever since.

These are still the same issues that loom in conservatives mind today.

This is WHY at least in part, Conservative Republicans don’t care for establishment Republicans like Establishment Washington.

The exact reason WHY Cruz is unpopular with Establishment Republicans, is EXACTLY WHY, Constitutional Conservatives LOVE Ted Cruz.

Cruz promised a Conservative agenda, then he DELIVRED.

Cruz did not want to fund international bankers with US taxpayer dollars for the World Bank (an ostensible US organization that funds FOREIGN businesses).

Cruz took on McConnell over the issue.

People ask Cruz why he would “get out of line” on these issues, even when everybody knew he couldn’t win.

Cruz’ reply?

I’m just doing what I promised the voters and taxpayers that I would do. Look out for them.

THIS is WHY the Establishment is unhappy with Cruz (Cruz isn’t a party myrmidon or “unquestioning follower”).

Not only does that interfere with the Establishment Globalist Big Government agenda, but it CONTRASTS the Establishment wing of the party even further. This does not allow them to blend into the party.

The voters want an America first policy.

The Conservative voters are plenty generous with the world, but they want to pick their OWN charities. Not having Washington operatives picking their foreign charities for them.

These are some of the reasons WHY, Establishment Republicans are so opposed to Cruz. And some of the reasons WHY, Conservatives LOVE him.

Cruz DOES what he says he will do. And provides LEADERSHIP in the process.

And this leadership is another thing that scares Washington operatives. Because if the whole power structure changes, that means they will not be able to manipulate money as well as socially engineer the way they did.

This is also WHY they are afraid of Trump. Because they will not be able to control Trump either.

They don’t care if Trump calls himself a " Conservative" or not. They want to have Governmental policy and money flow power.

This is WHY some Establishment Republicans would vote for a Democrat. Because the Democrats are more in unison with them, than Conservatives (although they will never openly admit it).

I really appreciate your thoughts on this, C. Tell me, though, if a genuine far right Conservative like Cruz can’t even win the nomination of his own party, why do you think he can win the election outright? Do you think most American voters are far right?

Per your wisdom, Republicans should be falling all over themselves to vote for Cruz right now. He is, as you say, anti-establishment and very very Conservative. If this is truly what the party wants and needs, why then can’t he win?

 

[Cathoholic]

The other problem with Trump for the Establishment Wing of the Republicans, is the Republican leader acts as a proverbial moniker for the whole party.

This will leave Establishment Congressman and Senators unable to dove-tail into the Trump mold and they will lose their re-elections.

But Conservative Congressmen and women (like Congressman Steve King) and Senators (i.e. Mike Lee), will be insulated from much of this.

Conservatives know about the different kinds of Republicans.

Many “Establishment” Republican voters don’t.

Cruz will coalesce the Republican voters. He may not be able to unite all the Republican politicians though.

But the voters are the ones who will put him in the office, not the politicians.

No matter what happens at this point, you will see a lot of changes within the Washington Republican power structure the next few years.

The other thing is, a lot of “habitual Republican voters” are paying more attention to nuances within the Republican Party.

When more voters are paying attention, it is much harder for the Establishment Republicans, or the press, to fool them as used to occur quite routinely.

 

[meltzerboy]

It really will be interesting to watch it play out. Tell me this, though. If Trump rolls into the convention with 1400 delegates, I know he will be the clear winner on vote 1. Is there still - after that vote - the chance that a vote 2 could produce a different nominee?

Yes, there is that chance; but personally I think Trump should be the nominee, not Cruz or anyone else, if he has that many delegates since he will have won the nomination fair and square.

 

[Little_Sheep]

Yes, there is that chance; but personally I think Trump should be the nominee, not Cruz or anyone else, if he has that many delegates since he will have won the nomination fair and square.

I agree too - just trying to wrap my head around what a 2nd ballot might look like. Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut!

 

[Lily_Bernans]

I agree too - just trying to wrap my head around what a 2nd ballot might look like. Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut!

I agree, too, but I don’t think Trump will be the nominee.

 

[Little_Sheep]

I agree, too, but I don’t think Trump will be the nominee.

Do you think he will make it to the finish lines with enough delegates to give him the nominee on the 1st ballot?

 

[Peter_J]

Even the people who can’t stand Cruz, like Lindsay Graham, are supporting him. Unlikable as he is, he seems better than Trump to most Republicans. I think most Republicans thought Trump would fade long before this and were horrified when he didn’t.

There comes a point where you have to switch from your first choice to your second choice (I’m sure many Dems recalling switching support from Clinton to Obama, once he won the nomination, because he was better in their eyes than John McCain).

I’m not saying everyone is at that point, but clear Graham is and thinks Cruz would be a heck of a lot better than Trump and Clinton. (And I’m guessing he doesn’t like being lectured by Eric Bolling to support Trump just because he is the frontrunner. )

 

[Lily_Bernans]

Do you think he will make it to the finish lines with enough delegates to give him the nominee on the 1st ballot?

Personally, I don’t think so, but I could be surprised!

 

[Cathoholic]

Little Sheep. You stated . . .

I really appreciate your thoughts on this, C.

Thanks.

You also said:

Tell me, though, if a genuine far right Conservative like Cruz can’t even win the nomination of his own party, why do you think he can win the election outright? Do you think most American voters are far right?

I think the question has a built-in pre-supposition.

It assumes “Conservatives” are . . . “far right”.

Many just consider ourselves apart from the media and sociologist “labels” (I understand what you are going to say here. Perception matters too).

Tell me, though, if a genuine far right Conservative like Cruz can’t even win the nomination of his own party, why do you think he can win the election outright?

I think Cruz CAN “win the nomination of his own party”.

With 16 candidates PLUS ONE Trump (17 candidates total) the vote was quite naturally spread around.

Trump already had a populist base even before the election was underway due to exposure, and still has abundant free TV to help with MORE with his “recognition”.

But Trump has never expanded his base significantly!

Trump has RECORD HIGH NEGATIVES.

Gallup: Trump Highest Unfavorable Rating Ever Recorded

See article here.

That was last January and its only getting worse.

This will be MAGNIFIED in a general election (over a REPUBLICAN Primary).

The Republicans as a whole are mad as “hades” against the Republican Establishment for NOT fighting in areas they promised the voters THEY WOULD FIGHT in.

(Some in the GOP Establishment or the GOPe, STILL don’t even get this! Just listen to Kasich RE: my comments in post 261 here and Kasich’s comment how he DOESN’T think America is upset with “Establishment Washington” - at about 2:47 into this video here)

CNN also just reported: Trump’s 73% NEGATIVE RATING with REGISTERED voting women.

(See at 2:49 here)

But for Cruz to get to the nomination, he will have to overcome his main obstacle–the GOPe (which is part of WHY Kasich is still in).

The GOPe or “Establishment Republicans”. Those who have been in power a long time, and now often perceived to use their office to MAINTAIN power, even at the expense of our country.

Cruz will also have to win over “Populist Republicans”. Trump supporters. I think Cruz can do that too, but I’m sure Trump will be coming up with angry excuses and attacks on Senator Cruz after Cruz beats him.

If Cruz denies Trump the 1,237 votes (and I think he will), it goes to a second ballot, THEN Cruz and Trump will for all practical purposes will be “one-on-one”.

If the Establishment tries to “parachute” someone else in, this will have disastrous consequences for them too (because EVERYONE among voting Republicans are paying so close attention to all of this).

If the GOPe is planning on betraying the voters, I look for them to try to quietly change the 8 state rule sometime BEFORE the Convention. Probably when there is a big story in the media and on a Friday afternoon (to attempt to divert attention away from this).

If the GOPe does this, they will not only be sacrificing the candidate to a humiliating defeat, fund raising will bottom out (due to all the bad PR), Reince Priebus will also have enormous pressure to step down, the Republicans will lose the Presidential election to a liberal Globalist agenda (via Treaties, esp. T-Tip and TPP, & mandatory Global Warming payouts), the Courts will be stacked with liberals, Globalist open borders will continue to worsen.

Also MANY GOPe will lose their seats because their bases will not support them. Even if they pretend to have mostly non-RE-election (and allow “safe-seat”) GOPe pols support the new GOPe that they dropped in at the Convention.

Voters will walk away disgusted.

A GOPe hijacking of the Republican Convention, would be VERY BAD for everyone (even for Democrats. I won’t go into “why” here).

So when Trump cannot achieve the threshold votes of 1,237 THEN we will have the clear choice.

THEN Trump cannot hide.

Everyone knows Trump cannot debate the issues with Cruz.

Trump has difficulties explaining issues even without someone else challenging him.

Trump will lose and will try to blame “Lyen Ted” for his own deficiencies.

So Cruz will have to coalesce “Constitutional Conservative Republicans”, and deal with objections of “Establishment Republicans” and “Populist Republicans”.

• Constitutional Conservative Republicans (Senator Cruz)
• Establishment Republicans (John Kasich at least for now)
• Populist Republicans (Donald Trump)

ANY of them will have to manage this “healing” though.

People KNOW, if Donald Trump wins the nomination, Trump will be the Republican version of the late George McGovern campaign.

**Donald Trump is to Populist Republicans as was George McGovern was to Populist Democrats!

Trump will lose by a landslide.**

The main obstacle for Cruz, is establishment Republicans who would prefer Hillary and do things clandestinely to hurt their own fellow Republican, Senator Cruz.

Cruz will overcome this because there are so many people that are seeing through this internecine war within the Republican Party.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Yes, there is that chance; but personally I think Trump should be the nominee, not Cruz or anyone else, if he has that many delegates since he will have won the nomination fair and square.

But he won’t have won the nomination unless he gets to 1237 delegates!

 

[Lily_Bernans]

But he won’t have won the nomination unless he gets to 1237 delegates!

If he does get 1,237 delegates, I think, along with MB that he should be the nominee even if the committee rewrites the rules.

 

[queenofheartscv]

Well, I’m sorry to hear if one doesn’t like Ted Cruz’s eyes, but I should think his common- sense record of opposing GOP/DEM/IND establishment nonsense would be something the frontrunner’s supports would like.

After all, this is a presidential election, not a Mr. Universe contest.

This goes much deeper than not liking someone’s looks or having a bad first impression on someone. I happen to believe a person’s eyes are a window to something not visible to the eyes. I see lots of lawyer speak and dishonesty in Cruz. Some latest examples:

Cruz insists he has nothing to do with the super pac ad about melania, but is adment Trump is in charge of a magazine’s reporting on himself. Now he claims on Fox news he doesn’t even know who Liz Mair is who put out the melania ad. He also said on Fox that he denounced the melania ad as soon as he saw it–such a blatant lie–he never ever did such a thing.

Cruz says Trump is pulling out NATO when the only thing trump has said is he doesn’t like US paying all this money to NATO and he wants other countries to pull more weight.

 

[_Abyssinia]

If he does get 1,237 delegates, I think, along with MB that he should be the nominee even if the committee rewrites the rules.

I doubt the rules would be rewritten in that way. But I doubt Trump would get to 1237 delegates in a contested convention. Obviously it may depend on how far away he is at the time.

 

[zz912]

Not really. Aren’t regulations the cause of all problems plaguing free enterprise? That would include those that protect your personal health.

Seems you have crafted a strawman and are dutifully knocking it down and declaring victory.

Perhaps you should try arguing with the actual position of your opponent?

No one is arguing that all regulation must be eliminated. It shows how weak your position is when you have to change what others say to effectively argue against it.

 

[Peter_J]

If he does get 1,237 delegates, I think, along with MB that he should be the nominee even if the committee rewrites the rules.

As I told someone else, Trump has been setting up a slippery-slope argument. This is just an extension of it: If I get a plurality and they don’t give the nomination to me automatically then who’s to say they wouldn’t even deny me if I get a majority?

 

[Alex_H]

Welcome into full communion with the Church Alex H.! Glad to have you!

Thank you! The Easter Vigil was a very beautiful mass.

 

[Alex_H]

Welcome into the Church.

Why do you think regulations that cost undue costs do not relate to food preparation?

Nobody is proposing that we deregulate food preparation. That’s not the platform Ted is running on.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

I doubt the rules would be rewritten in that way. But I doubt Trump would get to 1237 delegates in a contested convention. Obviously it may depend on how far away he is at the time.

The delegates can vote not to accept the rules and rewrite them before the first ballot and unbind themselves from being bound to a certain candidate. It would seem very arrogant of them not to nominate either Trump or Cruz, I think, considering that’s who the voters appear to want. Many delegates are what are called “SINOs” though, “Supporters in Name Only.” They’d love to be freed up to vote for someone else. But time will tell. This summer will be interesting.