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AlbertDerGrosse
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Thank you for this post. It’s appreciated. I apologize for my own reactionary snarky post above. 
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mVitus
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Would I be correct to assume you are an extrovert? I ask because I can give a bit of perspective from my introverted experience.
For me, social contact is much more fulfilling if I seek it, as opposed to having it pushed on me. It can feel awkward when it feels like societal norms say I should stay in a social situation even though I’d rather be alone.
In that vein, I process things best alone. I’ll take walks at night where I canbe alone and be myself. The worst part of a night walk is when I see someone else walking around. And going back to processing things, talking to a person makes clam up. I don’t like it. But alone,I don’t have secrets from myself.
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Delphinus
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This was illuminating for me. I know which one I WOULD do (ignore her and convince myself it’s none of my business) but it’s not the one I want to do. I want to be the kind of person who would stop what I am doing and at least pray with her. I feel so awkward doing that even with people I am closest to…that can’t be good! haha
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Telstar
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I wasn’t so much offended or upset (except for the part about you not recognizing some of us as Christians for disagreeing with your approach to the problem), but I was totally confused as to why you had such an attitude of shock toward our responses, especially if you were Catholic for over 60 years!
Apology accepted.
Now, this explanation of your POV makes all the difference in the world in understanding where you’re coming from, because the whole dynamic of “church” is far different in non-Catholic communities. For a Catholic, the center of attention for us whenever we’re inside the local parish “church”, is on Jesus, Who is always present in the Tabernacle (whenever the red candle is lit, indicating that His Body is truly there in the form of the Holy Eucharist). So, if we’re sitting in a pew when there is no Mass, looking toward the Tabernacle, or with our heads bowed in an attitude of prayer, then we’re probably just there to talk to Him. We go there to pour our hearts out to Him, and seek His comfort in all of our troubles. Or, on the other hand, we might just be there to pray to Him, to thank Him, or just to worship Him in our own way.
The Real Presence of Jesus in the Tabernacle is the whole world of difference between a Catholic church, and a Protestant “church” that doesn’t actually have that “Real Presence” of Jesus 24/7x52. So, if Catholics seem to be “cold” because they don’t run right over to help someone sitting in the pew that’s crying, it’s because we’re coming from a different frame of reference. We’re never alone in any Catholic church, because Jesus is always there, physically present to all of us. So, try to think about it from our perspective when you’re trying to understand why we respond the way we do.
I offer my sincere apology to you, too. Because I didn’t understand things that were coming from your perspective, either.
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Telstar
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Doesn’t your local parish have a women’s club, or a men’s club, that offer an opportunity to get together with other members of the parish, to socialize and do charity work? Don’t they have “coffee & donuts”, or something like that after Masses on Sunday, to socialize with other Catholics, or any other activities like that? I find it hard to believe that there’s nothing like that going on in the parish.
Maybe you should see if you could start one!
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SaintJude
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Say “smile and the world smiles back”
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Peeps
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Plenty of social activities going on at our parish. It’s a very active and vibrant parish with several thousand parishioners. We’ve tried so many of the activities… People are nice and they like us and we like them, but no one is interested in getting together outside of the parish activity, and NO ONE is interested in any kind of deep conversation and sharing. It’s all “How about those Packers” --safe talk where there’s no danger of someone getting their knickers in a knot!
My husband and I are at a point where we don’t really try anymore. We feel fairly certain that a lot of the Catholics in our parish have been friends since they were in Catholic school together and/or since their kids were in Catholic school together, and they’re already booked up socially. It could be, too, that they prefer to stay home with family and avoid social outings. It’s also possible that a lot of them have obligations to older or younger family members that leave them with little time or energy to socialize casually or to try to form a deeper friendship with another couple. And we know that a lot of people our age are still working, and it’s hard to work when you’re in your 60s–the energy level just isn’t there, and parking in front of the TV in a cool house sounds a lot more restorative than going out with a church couple that you’re not sure you will have anything in common with.
And like many people in this thread have made it clear–Catholics don’t come to Mass with any intention of deep fellowship with fellow believers. They come to be with Jesus.
My husband and I are at a point where we don’t really try anymore. We feel fairly certain that a lot of the Catholics in our parish have been friends since they were in Catholic school together and/or since their kids were in Catholic school together, and they’re already booked up socially. It could be, too, that they prefer to stay home with family and avoid social outings. It’s also possible that a lot of them have obligations to older or younger family members that leave them with little time or energy to socialize casually or to try to form a deeper friendship with another couple. And we know that a lot of people our age are still working, and it’s hard to work when you’re in your 60s–the energy level just isn’t there, and parking in front of the TV in a cool house sounds a lot more restorative than going out with a church couple that you’re not sure you will have anything in common with.
And like many people in this thread have made it clear–Catholics don’t come to Mass with any intention of deep fellowship with fellow believers. They come to be with Jesus.
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DisorientingSneeze
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Peeps I’m sorry that’s been your experience. That inner circle / outer circle is very much something I’ve felt for a long time and it is disheartening. Now that I somehow do get invited to things I don’t know what really changed, so I do everything I can to include people from the fringes like me.
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BoomerangToo
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@peeps All of your observations are the things that I have also observed at my parish. And I also find that as we age, it gets harder and harder to make friends. People in their forties are dealing with older children and baby grandchildren. In their fifties, they are not only dealing with children and grandchildren, but are frequently taking care of their aged parents. Sixties, same thing. I have a feeling once you reach your seventies, friends might be easier to come by because their obligations are less and at that age they may be looking outside the home for friendship, especially after their spouses have died.
You are also right about fellowship differences between non-denominational churches and Catholic churches. People will select a particular non-denominational church because of the fellowship, the music, the dynamic preaching. Otherwise, why go to that particular church? They could go to any church, right? So the type of people who go to those churches are folks that are deliberately looking for friendship and entertainment. Catholics, on the other hand, don’t go to the particular church that they go to for any of those reasons. Most Catholics simply go to the nearest church. That is their only criteria. It’s close to home. They expect to get their friendships elsewhere. And as long as there are kids, grandkids and/or elderly parents at home, there is usually no reason to seek friendship outside the home.
run an ad on Craigslist looking to start a group for middle-aged Catholics, and meet at coffee shops.
You are also right about fellowship differences between non-denominational churches and Catholic churches. People will select a particular non-denominational church because of the fellowship, the music, the dynamic preaching. Otherwise, why go to that particular church? They could go to any church, right? So the type of people who go to those churches are folks that are deliberately looking for friendship and entertainment. Catholics, on the other hand, don’t go to the particular church that they go to for any of those reasons. Most Catholics simply go to the nearest church. That is their only criteria. It’s close to home. They expect to get their friendships elsewhere. And as long as there are kids, grandkids and/or elderly parents at home, there is usually no reason to seek friendship outside the home.
This is certainly true. I’ve seen it in my parish. You really can’t break into these circles. They are like a closed family. You have to either start a new ministry yourself which caters to people like you and I, or seek friendship outside the Church. Have you tried/seen Meetup.com? That might be a good place to start. Or, God forbid,
run an ad on Craigslist looking to start a group for middle-aged Catholics, and meet at coffee shops.
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Telstar
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I understand where you’re coming from, completely. I tend to be extremely shy, so making friends has never been easy for me. The only time in our lives that my husband and I had a lot of friends was when we got involved with playing folk music. We used to get together at least once a week to play and sing with a fairly large number of other “folkies” in the area. Then, about 15 or so years ago some of our friends started bickering amongst each other, mostly about ridiculously silly stuff. Little by little people just stopped coming to music nights because they were mad at one person or another in the group.
Then, our best friends moved to Florida. After that, we just stopped playing music, altogether. But, none of those friends were religious at all. Most had no real religious affiliations, some were pagans, one was a nonpracticing Jew, a few ex-Prots and ex-Catholics, but none of them ever talked about anything religious without an argument breaking out.
I’ve always liked having someone to talk to about God. My best source of spiritual interaction used to be my husband’s older sister, but she passed away years ago, so I really don’t have anyone else to talk to anymore. I really miss her. For a while, I joined the choir, thinking that I could possibly find some good spiritual connections that way. But, what I found after a couple of years was the same kind of bickering and back stabbing that killed our group of folkies. So, I quit, and gave up my search for finding any spiritually minded friends.
So, don’t feel bad. I can relate.
Then, our best friends moved to Florida. After that, we just stopped playing music, altogether. But, none of those friends were religious at all. Most had no real religious affiliations, some were pagans, one was a nonpracticing Jew, a few ex-Prots and ex-Catholics, but none of them ever talked about anything religious without an argument breaking out.
I’ve always liked having someone to talk to about God. My best source of spiritual interaction used to be my husband’s older sister, but she passed away years ago, so I really don’t have anyone else to talk to anymore. I really miss her. For a while, I joined the choir, thinking that I could possibly find some good spiritual connections that way. But, what I found after a couple of years was the same kind of bickering and back stabbing that killed our group of folkies. So, I quit, and gave up my search for finding any spiritually minded friends.
So, don’t feel bad. I can relate.
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Telstar
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< sarcasm > Oh, yeah!! That sounds like a great idea!! :crazy_face: < /sarcasm >Or, God forbid,
I suppose you could always try Fakebook, too.
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BoomerangToo
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I know! I have an aversion to those also, but how else are you going to find like-minded people? I used to have lots of lively religious talks with my mother, but she’s gone now. I really miss her. It’s very hard to make good friends. It takes a lot of cultivation and work, and people are so busy nowadays…
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Bruised_Reed
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I miss my mom for the same reason. We could talk about most things and when it came to faith there was no one I’d rather have talked with. People thought we were joined at the hip but we were quite different so we brought different perspectives and experiences; together we had a fuller understanding when it came to living out the faith and being a witness. I’ve only had that once before and I doubt I will have it again.
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Peeps
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Since I play (piano, organ), I have also been involved with musical groups, and I know just what you’re talking about as you describe the groups falling apart little by little because of disagreements. So sad.
And yes, I love talking to people about God, faith topics, and secular topics, and to delve deeply into subjects and bring up controversies and really hash them out. In real life, people know the entire person, and they know that if you are presenting a point that is not the mainstream or even offensive, that you are not an evil person who should be abandoned or ignored in the future. They know that you are simply trying to work things out in your own head and heart. This often takes some amount of talk and back-and-forth and even raised voices (which upsets introverts) and animated conversation involving body language (arm waving, leaning forward, etc.).
Some people have a hard time with this kind of intense discussion, so they either bypass controversial discussions entirely by staying away from people and places where lively talk abounds, or they mull over these topics in their own minds and arrive at conclusions based on reading and study without seeking the (name removed by moderator)ut of others.
I have always been wary of figuring things out without seeking the experienced opinions of others, especially those who I disagree with.
It’s so easy to arrive at erroneous and even dangerous conclusions when we avoid others who upset us, and stick only with like-minded people.
One famous example is Adolph Hitler, who read extensively and spent a lot of time studying by himself. I realize that there were many factors that led to his evil mindset, but listening only to himself and his inner thoughts was definitely a factor.
So the question is, what about online interaction with others? I don’t do any social media–none, and my husband (a computer professional) does very little. There used to be lots of online forums about all kinds of things, but now many of these have turned into Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, or Instragram accounts, and I don’t like these because the conversation is so terse–sometimes only a few lines are allowed, and that, IMO, doesn’t give people a chance to develop a point and work out controversies with others. (Famous example–Pres. Trump’s Twitter account–ai yi yi!.)
The downside is that people on forums don’t know each other in real life, and they have only the comments, not a whole person. I know delightful people who have one besetting flaw (usually a health practice that I find irritating, or they hold a political POV that I despise). But I don’t dump people and ignore them because they aren’t perfect and because they occasionally say or do something that I find shocking. In online worlds, people do dump people, and it hurts and leads to more distrust of others.
And yes, I love talking to people about God, faith topics, and secular topics, and to delve deeply into subjects and bring up controversies and really hash them out. In real life, people know the entire person, and they know that if you are presenting a point that is not the mainstream or even offensive, that you are not an evil person who should be abandoned or ignored in the future. They know that you are simply trying to work things out in your own head and heart. This often takes some amount of talk and back-and-forth and even raised voices (which upsets introverts) and animated conversation involving body language (arm waving, leaning forward, etc.).
Some people have a hard time with this kind of intense discussion, so they either bypass controversial discussions entirely by staying away from people and places where lively talk abounds, or they mull over these topics in their own minds and arrive at conclusions based on reading and study without seeking the (name removed by moderator)ut of others.
I have always been wary of figuring things out without seeking the experienced opinions of others, especially those who I disagree with.
It’s so easy to arrive at erroneous and even dangerous conclusions when we avoid others who upset us, and stick only with like-minded people.
One famous example is Adolph Hitler, who read extensively and spent a lot of time studying by himself. I realize that there were many factors that led to his evil mindset, but listening only to himself and his inner thoughts was definitely a factor.
So the question is, what about online interaction with others? I don’t do any social media–none, and my husband (a computer professional) does very little. There used to be lots of online forums about all kinds of things, but now many of these have turned into Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, or Instragram accounts, and I don’t like these because the conversation is so terse–sometimes only a few lines are allowed, and that, IMO, doesn’t give people a chance to develop a point and work out controversies with others. (Famous example–Pres. Trump’s Twitter account–ai yi yi!.)
The downside is that people on forums don’t know each other in real life, and they have only the comments, not a whole person. I know delightful people who have one besetting flaw (usually a health practice that I find irritating, or they hold a political POV that I despise). But I don’t dump people and ignore them because they aren’t perfect and because they occasionally say or do something that I find shocking. In online worlds, people do dump people, and it hurts and leads to more distrust of others.
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