Cumorah

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gracepoole said:
Just out of curiosity, why is archaeological proof necessary to one who has faith?
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Catholics use faith and reason…we use reason through the facility of the intellect to understand the nature and truths about God. Faith without reason is blind faith and clouds the intellect. And, faith uses all the sciences to help further our understanding of God and his creation. Archeology is one of those sciences.

Example: Joseph Smith and Mormon prophets said Hill Cumorah in New York was the site of a great battle. Fine, then it should be easy to prove it correct by excavating the site and digging up swords, chariots and the remains of a million or so dead people. If no evidence can be found, then the conclusion is Joseph Smith did not tell the truth. And if he can not be trusted on this statement, neither can he be trusted on anything else…and the Book of Mormon is a fictional writing.
 
gracepoole said:
Just out of curiosity, why is archaeological proof necessary to one who has faith?
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We are created by God, as rational creatures. Our ability to reason is a gift from God. Faith is also a gift. The two work together.

An imagined God is a false God. Following an imagined God is idolatry. I don’t encourage faith in the imagined God of Joseph Smith. Discerning the claims of one man is not an offense to faith. God does not require we stop using critical thinking in order to have faith.
 
RebeccaJ said:
We are created by God, as rational creatures. Our ability to reason is a gift from God. Faith is also a gift. The two work together.

An imagined God is a false God. Following an imagined God is idolatry. I don’t encourage faith in the imagined God of Joseph Smith. Discerning the claims of one man is not an offense to faith. God does not require we stop using critical thinking in order to have faith.
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exactly. And we cannot be “accepting” of a false god or a false prophet
 
TexanKnight said:
yep…nothing would be found…millions would leave the Church…or have to call js a liar…

and no more cushy life for the lds leaders…

so they choose not to excavate…and the lds members here cannot defend it…

so, they bury their heads in the sand and hope we forget and move on
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So Tex, do you think this is some sort of pyramid scheme?
 
I just read 8 pages of this thread thinking it was going to be a discussion about Cumorah, but I don’t remember seeing a single adherent to the Mormon faith offer up an explanation. I’m a little dissapointed I just wasted all that time.
 
Boulder257 said:
I just read 8 pages of this thread thinking it was going to be a discussion about Cumorah, but I don’t remember seeing a single adherent to the Mormon faith offer up an explanation. I’m a little dissapointed I just wasted all that time.
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I know…I posted it for Mormons to come discuss it…they are too afraid.
 
TexanKnight said:
I know…I posted it for Mormons to come discuss it…they are too afraid.
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And this is a surprise given how their faith has been painted here? It’s a fraud, it’s heresy, it’s a Ponzi scheme… What a welcoming place to divulge one’s beliefs.

If this is the approach adopted by the Church’s New Evangelization, we’re in trouble.
 
gracepoole said:
And this is a surprise given how their faith has been painted here? It’s a fraud, it’s heresy, it’s a Ponzi scheme… What a welcoming place to divulge one’s beliefs.

If this is the approach adopted by the Church’s New Evangelization, we’re in trouble.
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No, the Catholic Church is in trouble if we do not stand strong and defiant against false prophets

but thanks, anyway
 
Boulder257 said:
I just read 8 pages of this thread thinking it was going to be a discussion about Cumorah, but I don’t remember seeing a single adherent to the Mormon faith offer up an explanation. I’m a little dissapointed I just wasted all that time.
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Because of the fact that no Mormons would participate in this thread I took the subject to lds.net. Had a lot of upset people there and when I woke up this morning to continue the discussion I found this message. Keep in mind I received no warning and have never even had an infraction up to this point.

*"You have been banned for the following reason:
You appear determined to force us to offer something that we do not wish to.

Date the ban will be lifted: Never"*

I could really care less about being banned from lds.net but thought their reasoning was very interesting.
 
SteveVH said:
Because of the fact that no Mormons would participate in this thread I took the subject to lds.net. Had a lot of upset people there and when I woke up this morning to continue the discussion I found this message. Keep in mind I received no warning and have never even had an infraction up to this point.

*"You have been banned for the following reason:
You appear determined to force us to offer something that we do not wish to.

Date the ban will be lifted: Never"*

I could really care less about being banned from lds.net but thought their reasoning was very interesting.
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Mormons just believe, and is what they preach as they send tens of thousands of teenage boys to deliver the message: believe Joseph Smith.

Believe me. I’ve been down this rabbit hole to the point where I couldn’t look my Mormon relatives in the face without thinking they were the most gullible people that ever lived. They just believe. Period. The reason they believe, is: they believe. I think that could be the Mormon creed: “I believe, therefore, what I believe is truth, therefore, I believe what I believe is truth, which is what I believe.”

You’ll never get out of this believe-loop with a Mormon.Never. Everything in the world around them, including history, is bent to what wants to be believed.History is belief and belief is history. Archaeology, as tool for understanding human history, falls under the belief bending and is mangled under “Mormon Scholarship”.

If you poke this too much on a Mormon forum, the result is what you have experienced. You are now officially, an anti-Mormon, all because you endorse critical thinking.
 
twopekinguys said:
Utah has the highest rate of pyramid/ponzi schemes. Coincidence?
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You are right, and unfortunately we were suckered in by one and lost some big bucks because of believing such a nice upstanding “bishop” of their church
 
QUOTE=TexanKnight;10935073]No, the Catholic Church is in trouble if we do not stand strong and defiant against false prophets

but thanks, anyway

👍
 
TexanKnight said:
No, the Catholic Church is in trouble if we do not stand strong and defiant against false prophets

but thanks, anyway
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I’m not talking about content, TexanKnight – I’m talking about approach. If others have accepted false prophets and they aren’t likely to be granted salvation because of their acceptance of false prophets, why are irritation and snarkiness a good immediate response? I should think pity and compassion would be higher on the list. Regardless of all of this, of course, no one individual should ever be charged for not agreeing to be (as I said earlier) the token member of her faith.
 
RebeccaJ said:
Mormons just believe, and is what they preach as they send tens of thousands of teenage boys to deliver the message: believe Joseph Smith.

Believe me. I’ve been down this rabbit hole to the point where I couldn’t look my Mormon relatives in the face without thinking they were the most gullible people that ever lived. They just believe. Period. The reason they believe, is: they believe. I think that could be the Mormon creed: “I believe, therefore, what I believe is truth, therefore, I believe what I believe is truth, which is what I believe.”

You’ll never get out of this believe-loop with a Mormon.Never. Everything in the world around them, including history, is bent to what wants to be believed.History is belief and belief is history. Archaeology, as tool for understanding human history, falls under the belief bending and is mangled under “Mormon Scholarship”.

If you poke this too much on a Mormon forum, the result is what you have experienced. You are now officially, an anti-Mormon, all because you endorse critical thinking.
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You hit the nail on the head. No one was the least bit concerned that they were now following their Mormon scholars rather than their Mormon prophets. It fit right in with their mindset and didn’t come close to giving them a lesser opinion of Joseph Smith, et al. We believe what we believe therefore it is true.
 
gracepoole said:
I’m not talking about content, TexanKnight – I’m talking about approach. If others have accepted false prophets and they aren’t likely to be granted salvation because of their acceptance of false prophets, why are irritation and snarkiness a good immediate response? I should think pity and compassion would be higher on the list. Regardless of all of this, of course, no one individual should ever be charged for not agreeing to be (as I said earlier) the token member of her faith.
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gracepoole said:
What I’ve “declared” is a plea to remain on topic. ** There’s plenty of actual content to discuss** here – ad hominem attacks aren’t becoming.
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gracepoole said:
I’m not talking about content, TexanKnight – I’m talking about approach. If others have accepted false prophets and they aren’t likely to be granted salvation because of their acceptance of false prophets, why are irritation and snarkiness a good immediate response? I should think pity and compassion would be higher on the list. Regardless of all of this, of course, no one individual should ever be charged for not agreeing to be (as I said earlier) the token member of her faith.
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You can the approach of constantly complaining about a poster you can ignore?

My approach is annoying, perhaps…

and the Pope said to be annoying.

If you dislike my posts, block me…deal?
 
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